Author Topic: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing  (Read 11318 times)

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Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2008, 11:26:09 PM »

Offline MoBSTa_69

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BBD, never got back on D or even tried to box out tonight, and he tried to be a goto man and that he is not.

POB at least deserves the chance to earn Cry babies minutes  after this game and after the actions on the sideline Danny better be looking to trade BBD....

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 11:34:59 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I dont care about the offensive side but the bench needs to play better defense how many times already this year our starters have left the bench with a 20 point lead and doc has had to put the starters back in because the bench couldnt hold the lead.

  Many of those instances were our reserves playing against the other team's starters.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 11:44:58 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Way overreacting.  The bench has played so much better than any other second unit in the league.  

I disagree with that.

For instance, the Celtics are 15th in the NBA in points per game, and 14th in points per 100 possessions.  The Celts' reserves are 9th in terms of "+/-", with 34 more points scored than their counterparts.

Those are respectable numbers, but not close to "much better than any other second unit in the league".  (Less respectable:  Celtics bench players rank second from the bottom in terms of assists, and are in the bottom ten in rebounds and blocked shots.)

Link.

Totally agree, Roy, and a good job identifying the deficiencies of this bench. I am confident that Danny is or soon will be looking for significant inside upgrades, if not a point. It's quite clear that this bench is insufficient for a playoff series, and changes are going to need to be made - beginning with the end of the wild reach that was the O'Blount signing.

The notion that he deserves anyone's minutes is laughable. Davis is three times the player Paddy is, tantrum or none.
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Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 11:45:04 PM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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i have two words for you - james posey.
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Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2008, 12:05:49 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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POB is horrible, i'm sure he's getting the opportunities to prove himself. its not like doc is missing something.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2008, 12:09:39 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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Quote
Totally agree, Roy, and a good job identifying the deficiencies of this bench. I am confident that Danny is or soon will be looking for significant inside upgrades, if not a point. It's quite clear that this bench is insufficient for a playoff series, and changes are going to need to be made - beginning with the end of the wild reach that was the O'Blount signing.

Both Davis and POB are well below average. I mind POB less because NBA teams routinely have big man 'project' on the bench - going back to Stoko in 80s. Realistically teams carry 15 guys and unless your the trailblazers not all of those guys are going to be rotation level players.

The problem for the C's is that rotation level they are about 8 deep. I think House, TA and Powe would all see rotation minutes on other teams. But outside of our starters thats it.

I don't rest of the guys would make it off the bench on most other NBA teams except for some odd situations.

Pete

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2008, 12:14:05 AM »

Offline Chris

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Way overreacting.  The bench has played so much better than any other second unit in the league.  

I disagree with that.

For instance, the Celtics are 15th in the NBA in points per game, and 14th in points per 100 possessions.  The Celts' reserves are 9th in terms of "+/-", with 34 more points scored than their counterparts.

Those are respectable numbers, but not close to "much better than any other second unit in the league".  (Less respectable:  Celtics bench players rank second from the bottom in terms of assists, and are in the bottom ten in rebounds and blocked shots.)

Link.

I also think if you broke it down you would see that if you took out several great games, the C's bench numbers would fall considerably.  One of their biggest problems this year (and to be fair, they had the same problem last year) is that they are incredibly inconsistent from game to game.  I think this is mostly because they simply don't have a playmaker on that unit.  That means they have to rely on hot hands, rather than getting consistent good shots.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2008, 12:16:03 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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TA is a respectable playmaker.. That hurt us tonight.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2008, 12:24:18 AM »

Offline Chris

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TA is a respectable playmaker.. That hurt us tonight.

Well, he is inconsistent, but he is really the only one they have, so without him, it just makes it that much worse.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2008, 12:34:25 AM »

Offline Dybdal

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My initial thought on the game as a whole was that TA would have alot of room to operate late in qtr's on the offensive side of things, just look at that 3rd qtr, 4 mins in and their 1 foul from the limit, that in my eyes just screams Tony Allen getting to the line driving fiesta.

And as a whole, when we had problems on the defensive end it came from guard penetration, having TA out there to handle some of that pressure would have helped the first and second unit on a night where pierce wasnt on his game.

I agree with you that TA is to inconsistent in contrast to Late Game James but tonight would have been a prime oportunity for TA to have a impact game. (thats what i think anyway, might be far from the truth but hey..)
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Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2008, 12:58:43 AM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

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POB is horrible, i'm sure he's getting the opportunities to prove himself. its not like doc is missing something.

He is one of the softest players I've ever seen. He looks like he should be playing for the Girl's JV team.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2008, 01:57:56 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Well you won't get anymore arguments for Patrick O'Bryant from me. I watched Oden post up Patrick O'Bryant tonight. Oden dribbled, then backed in to POB, dribbled, then backed into him again and then O'Bryant simply bear hugged Oden for a foul. I've never seen anyone give up on defense like that before ever. I mean, Oden wasn't going into his move, Oden hadn't beaten him on post position. O'Bryant simply didn't feel like playing defense on Oden so he hugged him to get the ball out of his hands. You gotta be kidding me?? Any remaining hope I might've had for Patrick to possibly become a contributor down the line died right there. That was the most disgraceful thing I've ever seen.

On another note I'm surprised  there haven't been any Gabe sightings these last 2 games. Scal has played some ok defense but at the offensive end he's completely useless. Instead of the fairly inept look the Scal/Powe/BBD group has. I would've rather tried a 3-guard lineup coming off the bench with Gabe/Eddie/Ray or Paul with Powe and Davis. Gabe is decent running pick and roll And I think the undersized but more potent offense of that bench unit would far outweight any advantage a Scal/Powe/BBD front court would give us.
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Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2008, 03:17:27 AM »

Offline Scalablob990

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I dont care about the offensive side but the bench needs to play better defense how many times already this year our starters have left the bench with a 20 point lead and doc has had to put the starters back in because the bench couldnt hold the lead.

  Many of those instances were our reserves playing against the other team's starters.

Well Doc has been a bit wacky with  the subbing lately, we've had some really really "odd" combo's out their that are horrible when they play together (Scal and BBD, both who are dead weight for scoring) and this causes powe and house to take more of the load, hence more mistakes. BBD is better then Scal on the offensive, and I like his defense but one non-scorer is enough. The only thing that sort of peeves me is when doc waits a while to call the time out when a team is axing the lead down. I'm still a big supporter of the EH-RA-TA-Powe-BBD line up though.
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Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2008, 05:02:44 AM »

Offline housecall

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We need a player similar to Outlaw for the Trailblazers.

Re: Our bench is incomplete and disappointing
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2008, 05:04:00 AM »

Offline blueygreen

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Way overreacting.  The bench has played so much better than any other second unit in the league.  They have two bad games that correspond with Tony being hurt, as well as some problems with the rotation against Indiana, and the sky is falling.

When Tony's in the game he controls a lot of the tempo.  He wasn't around and so the pressure on Eddie made the second unit completely in chaos.  If Tony's there, this doesn't happen, and we win the game by 25.

No problem.

are you serious?? what you are saying is equivalent to saying without paul pierce our starting unit would stink. You can't depend on one guy like that. We can't think tony allen will be healthy 100 percent cuz no player is.

I guess you didn't see how pizzed kg was

I don't know about amenhotep, but I think he makes a great point and you've completely misinterpreted it. This is a bench we're talking about! We're not going to have three or four playmakers on that bench that can control the game. It's not like the starting lineup where if you want to contend you need multiple scoring/double team threads on the court (or your name is Lebron James). Every team spends their year depending on the healthiness of one player. Every team. Tony's effect upon the bench unit is the same as Pierce's was to the first team a few years ago in this apt anaology you've provided. If Paul is inujured, you may as well consider the game lost. Tony does a great job creating his own shot and a solid job controlling the tempo and pace of that unit and has really stepped up as a leader in my opinion. The make-up of a starting lineup is much different to that of a second unit. You don't want too many playmakers on the second unit simply because they tend to just constantly look for their own shot and become black holes when they get the ball (see: Travis Outlaw).


BBD, never got back on D or even tried to box out tonight, and he tried to be a goto man and that he is not.

POB at least deserves the chance to earn Cry babies minutes  after this game and after the actions on the sideline Danny better be looking to trade BBD....

I'm guessing you didn't see the game, because many of these comments cannot be verified from at least my perspective of the game.

As for his 'go to man' status...You mean the grand total of two shots he took? At least one of which was an offensive rebound (if not both, I don't remember the other however I shall give you the benefit of the doubt). He didn't look for his jumper at all despite being open from midrange a few times (which did confuse me) and he was really within the flow of the offense tonight.

POB disgusted me tonight. That one play where Oden caught the ball and basically just pushed POB back all the way to the rim without any resistance was one of the most pathetic things I've  ever seen in any form of basketball. Then finally, in his act of surrender he gives away the softest foul of all time, I was expecting him to drop on one knee and propose on the spot.


Anybody else feel that the hyperbole on CB lately has been...uhh...hyperbolic? :P

Edit:

Housecall: Just saw your post. I'll admit that I am a huge Outlaw hater, but I don't think he brings anything to the table, especially for us. He had an outstanding shooting night by his standards, and made 5-10, many of them shots that nobody wants him to make (including his teammates) purely because they are such low percentage shots that a make might encourage him. He's athletic but little else on the other side of the ball, and historically he hasn't been able to shoot the 3-ball at all. I can't see his chucker mentality being beneficial to the Celtics at this point in his career.

Edit 2: Just saw your post Buckners. TP for the Oden reference, great minds think alike :D