Giddens carries Flash to the D-League Finals

[winsomme]

I think Giddens has some potential and can be a NBA role-player in due time, but right now, I don't see a great separation between him and, say, DeMarcus Nelson. If there is, I'd like to know what makes Giddens so much better. Unfortunately, I think I'd have to wait forever.

okay, he's a better rebounder and he is not undersized for his position.

On the other hand, he can't shoot nearly as well, he's not as good defensively and his handling is far worse.

Rebounding and size make up for all of this?

well first of all, I don't agree about defense... especially guarding SGs (which is where he would  have to play).

plus, JR has a long wingspan. and has decent form on his shot. he's also got pretty good hands and could crash the offensive glass much the way TA did as a rookie.

but yes, all in all, i do think that makes him a better NBA prospect than Nelson. quite a bit better.

[cordobes]

I didn't reconsider anything. I meant exactly what BC later clarified: rebounding for a guard isn't such a big factor as it is for a PF.

But regardless, Giddens has the ability to make a big impact on a game with his rebounding. Right? Why split hairs at this point?

I'm not splitting hairs, just correcting your stance that I reconsidered my position. Case closed now.

[winsomme]

I didn't reconsider anything. I meant exactly what BC later clarified: rebounding for a guard isn't such a big factor as it is for a PF.

But regardless, Giddens has the ability to make a big impact on a game with his rebounding. Right? Why split hairs at this point?

I'm not splitting hairs, just correcting your stance that I reconsidered my position. Case closed now.

but again, what is the relevance of comparing the relative importance of rebounding between PF and SG in terms of the question: can JR contribute at the NBA level?

[cordobes]

I think Giddens has some potential and can be a NBA role-player in due time, but right now, I don't see a great separation between him and, say, DeMarcus Nelson. If there is, I'd like to know what makes Giddens so much better. Unfortunately, I think I'd have to wait forever.

okay, he's a better rebounder and he is not undersized for his position.

On the other hand, he can't shoot nearly as well, he's not as good defensively and his handling is far worse.

Rebounding and size make up for all of this?

well first of all, I don't agree about defense... especially guarding SGs (which is where he would  have to play).

plus, JR has a long wingspan. and has decent form on his shot. he's also got pretty good hands and could crash the offensive glass much the way TA did as a rookie.

but yes, all in all, i do think that makes him a better NBA prospect than Nelson. quite a bit better.

In terms of potential, I agree.

In terms of current quality, I don't. Nelson defends better - he's really, really good - and he's big and strong enough to defend SGs, very long with an incredible wingspan. Right now, Nelson is the better player (especially to play the NBA game).

[cordobes]

I didn't reconsider anything. I meant exactly what BC later clarified: rebounding for a guard isn't such a big factor as it is for a PF.

But regardless, Giddens has the ability to make a big impact on a game with his rebounding. Right? Why split hairs at this point?

I'm not splitting hairs, just correcting your stance that I reconsidered my position. Case closed now.

but again, what is the relevance of comparing the relative importance of rebounding between PF and SG in terms of the question: can JR contribute at the NBA level?

Maybe you should look for the context where I made the original statement, if this is really so important to you.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I didn't reconsider anything. I meant exactly what BC later clarified: rebounding for a guard isn't such a big factor as it is for a PF.

But regardless, Giddens has the ability to make a big impact on a game with his rebounding. Right? Why split hairs at this point?

I'm not splitting hairs, just correcting your stance that I reconsidered my position. Case closed now.

Wait, a judge has just re-opened the case...

EDIT - Nevermind, the case stays closed. Thanks winsomme & Budweiser Celtic.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Still - Any comment on J.R.'s passing vs. Nelson's? His assist numbers in college and the D-League seem awfully promising to me.

[winsomme]

after doing some rereading, see next post...

[winsomme]

I didn't reconsider anything. I meant exactly what BC later clarified: rebounding for a guard isn't such a big factor as it is for a PF.

But regardless, Giddens has the ability to make a big impact on a game with his rebounding. Right? Why split hairs at this point?

I'm not splitting hairs, just correcting your stance that I reconsidered my position. Case closed now.

but again, what is the relevance of comparing the relative importance of rebounding between PF and SG in terms of the question: can JR contribute at the NBA level?

Maybe you should look for the context where I made the original statement, if this is really so important to you.

okay, after a quick recheck, it looks like it was the point that you made more recently that JR couldn't hang his hat on rebounding, but you also agree that he has other skills, so...

[BudweiserCeltic]

His simply saying, that if you have to appoint some value to the different skills a player might have, when it regards a guard, rebounding is not as important as other skills. So that Giddens can be an excellent rebounder, he doesn't feel that the other skills are good enough so that Giddens can rebound well is not much of a factor as it regards his NBA readyness.

This differs from from a center or powerfoward in that if they're great rebounders, usually that's a huge factor into their NBA readyness development.

I agree with this premise, but I don't agree with his conclusions.

[winsomme]

His simply saying, that if you have to appoint some value to the different skills a player might have, when it regards a guard, rebounding is not as important as other skills. So that Giddens can be an excellent rebounder, he doesn't feel that the other skills are good enough so that Giddens can rebound well is not much of a factor as it regards his NBA readyness.

This differs from from a center or powerfoward in that if they're great rebounders, usually that's a huge factor into their NBA readyness development.

I agree with this premise, but I don't agree with his conclusions.

yeah, and we already went over this a couple of pages ago....I'm not sure who was arguing that rebounding is as important for a SG as it is for a PF...just listing it as something he could contribute right away in the big league.

plus, c already acknowledges other skills that JR has....

so i guess what i don't understand is not why c doesn't agree that JR is NBA ready, but why the question about readiness isn't an open one with points on both sides of the debate.

[winsomme]

I think Giddens has some potential and can be a NBA role-player in due time, but right now, I don't see a great separation between him and, say, DeMarcus Nelson. If there is, I'd like to know what makes Giddens so much better. Unfortunately, I think I'd have to wait forever.

okay, he's a better rebounder and he is not undersized for his position.

On the other hand, he can't shoot nearly as well, he's not as good defensively and his handling is far worse.

Rebounding and size make up for all of this?

well first of all, I don't agree about defense... especially guarding SGs (which is where he would  have to play).

plus, JR has a long wingspan. and has decent form on his shot. he's also got pretty good hands and could crash the offensive glass much the way TA did as a rookie.

but yes, all in all, i do think that makes him a better NBA prospect than Nelson. quite a bit better.

In terms of potential, I agree.

In terms of current quality, I don't. Nelson defends better - he's really, really good - and he's big and strong enough to defend SGs, very long with an incredible wingspan. Right now, Nelson is the better player (especially to play the NBA game).

okay, but how quickly that potential could be tapped into is part of the debate here.

speaking for myself, I think with playing time this year, he could have already demonstrated that potential at the NBA level.

[winsomme]

this is point is basically the crux of my problem with this topic.

I find extremely difficult to believe any reasonable observer would simultaneously agree with the flaws I've described on Giddens game and that he's ready to play in the NBA.

add together the things that JR does well with things that he could potentially get good at with PT and i don't see  (even if you disagree with the conclusion) how you can argue that you have to be an unreasonable observer to maintain that JR could contribute at the NBA level.

reasonable people disagree all the time. you don't have to be right to be reasonable... especially on something that is speculative.

[cordobes]

this is point is basically the crux of my problem with this topic.

I find extremely difficult to believe any reasonable observer would simultaneously agree with the flaws I've described on Giddens game and that he's ready to play in the NBA.

add together the things that JR does well with things that he could potentially get good at with PT and i don't see  (even if you disagree with the conclusion) how you can argue that you have to be an unreasonable observer to maintain that JR could contribute at the NBA level.

reasonable people disagree all the time. you don't have to be right to be reasonable... especially on something that is speculative.

Because he would be an offensive liability (finishing on transition and some cuts to the basket are nice but you need more from a perimeter player in the NBA, especially one who can't shoot or make FTs) and his defence lacks a good amount of polishing to be a factor.

I mean, maybe he's as ready as Bill Walker. But would you consider Bill Walker NBA ready?

[winsomme]

this is point is basically the crux of my problem with this topic.

I find extremely difficult to believe any reasonable observer would simultaneously agree with the flaws I've described on Giddens game and that he's ready to play in the NBA.

add together the things that JR does well with things that he could potentially get good at with PT and i don't see  (even if you disagree with the conclusion) how you can argue that you have to be an unreasonable observer to maintain that JR could contribute at the NBA level.

reasonable people disagree all the time. you don't have to be right to be reasonable... especially on something that is speculative.

Because he would be an offensive liability (finishing on transition and some cuts to the basket are nice but you need more from a perimeter player in the NBA, especially one who can't shoot or make FTs) and his defence lacks a good amount of polishing to be a factor.

I mean, maybe he's as ready as Bill Walker. But would you consider Bill Walker NBA ready?

but how do you know what his learning curve would be?

like i said, i'm adding the things that he does well to his potential to get better at others...

I mean, Walker doesn't embarrass himself out there, but he's just not getting minutes to really show what he can do or get better at the things he is less good at...but is he able to play at the NBA level? yeah, i think he is....and i think he would have gotten PT on other teams...