CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: perks-a-beast on November 20, 2018, 01:55:05 PM
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and how many teams are going to want to take on that abysmal contract for a guy who has proved to be nothing other than cancerous?
Possible suitors
Clippers (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Avery Bradley, Jerome Robinson)
Heat (Goran Dragic & Justice Winslow)
Pelicans (Jrue Holiday, Cheick Diallo, 2nd rounder)
Magic (Mo Bamba, Terrence Ross, Jerian Grant)
Suns (TJ Warren, Mikal Bridges, Elie Okobo)
Knicks (Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox, Courtney Lee)
The Lakers may also be interested, depends on what GM LeBrons take on Wall is. Im honestly not sure.
My guess is he ends up in New Orleans with Davis or Orlando.
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I think you're grossly overrating Wall's value. To be honest, the remaining deal of his contract is so toxic that I wouldn't be surprised if the best they receive in return is expiring(s) and a protected 1st.
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Those all seem like way too much value. I mean I don't even know if the Cavs would trade JR Smith for him, and JR Smith is no longer doing team activities.
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I think you're grossly overrating Wall's value. To be honest, the remaining deal of his contract is so toxic that I wouldn't be surprised if the best they receive in return is expiring(s) and a protected 1st.
To be fair we're talking about a five time all star who isn't in his thirties yet and has improved his shooting..there are desperate teams out there who will offer more than you think.
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
Wall is a lot easier to trade this year though as his salary is 19.17 million. Next year it is 37.8 million. Way easier to trade a 19 million figure then a 38 million figure.
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
Wall is a lot easier to trade this year though as his salary is 19.17 million. Next year it is 37.8 million. Way easier to trade a 19 million figure then a 38 million figure.
That's true. Who thinks Wall is gonna make their team so much better that it's worth paying him that much when he's in his early 30s, though?
I was thinking maybe Dallas ... Dennis Smith and Wes Matthews would be enough salary to do it. Washington gets an okay PG prospect and gets off Wall's money.
I'd be surprised if they did a lot better than that, honestly. Wall is a bargain at $20 million and an albatross at $30+ million.
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
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The 15% trade kicker sucks if he isn't willing to Kyrie it.
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
Wall is a lot easier to trade this year though as his salary is 19.17 million. Next year it is 37.8 million. Way easier to trade a 19 million figure then a 38 million figure.
That's true. Who thinks Wall is gonna make their team so much better that it's worth paying him that much when he's in his early 30s, though?
I was thinking maybe Dallas ... Dennis Smith and Wes Matthews would be enough salary to do it. Washington gets an okay PG prospect and gets off Wall's money.
I'd be surprised if they did a lot better than that, honestly. Wall is a bargain at $20 million and an albatross at $30+ million.
I keep landing on the Knicks or a team that isn't going to be able to land a major free agent like the Kings, Suns, Cavs, Grizzlies, Jazz, etc. The problem with Wall is his contract, not his play, not his age, etc. That said we are going to start seeing more big contracts like his though so it isn't going to be so strange in a couple of years either.
What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
Wall is a lot easier to trade this year though as his salary is 19.17 million. Next year it is 37.8 million. Way easier to trade a 19 million figure then a 38 million figure.
That's true. Who thinks Wall is gonna make their team so much better that it's worth paying him that much when he's in his early 30s, though?
I was thinking maybe Dallas ... Dennis Smith and Wes Matthews would be enough salary to do it. Washington gets an okay PG prospect and gets off Wall's money.
I'd be surprised if they did a lot better than that, honestly. Wall is a bargain at $20 million and an albatross at $30+ million.
I keep landing on the Knicks or a team that isn't going to be able to land a major free agent like the Kings, Suns, Cavs, Grizzlies, Jazz, etc. The problem with Wall is his contract, not his play, not his age, etc. That said we are going to start seeing more big contracts like his though so it isn't going to be so strange in a couple of years either.
What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
I will believe that Memphis is going to trade Conley or Gasol when it happens and no sooner.
I think they're gonna keep those guys until they retire, if they have any say in it.
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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade. But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo. They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
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and how many teams are going to want to take on that abysmal contract for a guy who has proved to be nothing other than cancerous?
Possible suitors
Clippers (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Avery Bradley, Jerome Robinson)
Heat (Goran Dragic & Justice Winslow)
Pelicans (Jrue Holiday, Cheick Diallo, 2nd rounder)
Magic (Mo Bamba, Terrence Ross, Jerian Grant)
Suns (TJ Warren, Mikal Bridges, Elie Okobo)
Knicks (Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox, Courtney Lee)
The Lakers may also be interested, depends on what GM LeBrons take on Wall is. Im honestly not sure.
My guess is he ends up in New Orleans with Davis or Orlando.
Jrue Holiday is better than Wall today all by himself and he is not cancer with a toxic contract.
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great player but huge contract..what team would take that on? New York? Clippers?
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great player but huge contract..what team would take that on? New York? Clippers?
Trade Kuzzma , Pope. , and Ball and Rondo
Ingram Wall Bron and Hart t is good start
Ball ....just doesn't fit on ANY team Bron is on.....that a bad combo
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and how many teams are going to want to take on that abysmal contract for a guy who has proved to be nothing other than cancerous?
Possible suitors
Clippers (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Avery Bradley, Jerome Robinson)
Heat (Goran Dragic & Justice Winslow)
Pelicans (Jrue Holiday, Cheick Diallo, 2nd rounder)
Magic (Mo Bamba, Terrence Ross, Jerian Grant)
Suns (TJ Warren, Mikal Bridges, Elie Okobo)
Knicks (Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox, Courtney Lee)
The Lakers may also be interested, depends on what GM LeBrons take on Wall is. Im honestly not sure.
My guess is he ends up in New Orleans with Davis or Orlando.
Jrue Holiday is better than Wall today all by himself and he is not cancer with a toxic contract.
That's kind of what I was thinking. Wall is probably better than Jrue but not by much. Not enough that I would even trade him straight up and roll the chemistry dice.
I imagine the Suns, Magic, Heat, and Knicks will be in the hunt.
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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade. But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo. They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract. With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January. I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade. The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer. The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade. But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo. They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract. With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January. I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade. The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer. The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.
Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade. But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo. They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract. With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January. I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade. The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer. The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.
Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
Exactly and very big downside with Wall's contract. The Grizzlies aren't an organization willing to pay luxury tax.
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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade. But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo. They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract. With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January. I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade. The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer. The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.
Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
Wall is absolutely better than Conley. He is a better passer, scorer, defender, rebounder, etc. Conley is a better outside shooter, but that is about it. Conley is also 3 years older than Wall and a much worse injury history that Wall has (Conley's games played the last 5 seasons are 12, 69, 56, 70, 73). In fact, Wall missed 41 last year, but missed just 12 games combined in the 4 seasons prior to that.
I totally get why Memphis might not want to mess up their chemistry since they are winning, but again what if they are a .500 type team in January. Why wouldn't they want to get a younger and better player that is locked up longer (Conley will be older when his current contract ends then Wall will be when Wall's contract ends)
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I think Wall cares a great deal about the accumulation of his numbers. I don't think Conley cares about that nearly as much. Conley is a much better team player, and I think he's better on defense too.
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What about something like Conley for Wall and Mahinmi? I think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.
That's actually a reasonable framework for a trade. But I don't think Memphis management has the courage to break up the Gasol-Conley duo. They probably want these guys to retire as Grizzlies.
Maybe, but Conley is pretty old and while his contract isn't as long or quite as big, it is still a massive contract. With Memphis playing as well as they are, I don't think they make any major trades, but what if they go on a bit of a skid and end up near .500 in January. I think this is the exact type of trade that makes sense in a Wall trade. The Grizzlies get a younger, better player, who is locked up longer. The Wizards get a better contract, but still get a very good player who might fit better from a chemistry standpoint.
Wall is not better than Conely. His top achievement is leading a 45-ish (41-49) team to the 2nd round.
Grizzlies draft cultivated players, that enables to develop them. As they did with Conely.
They recognize the value of players that have the ability to fit, improve and respect their own teammates. Wall is an expensive, high maintenance, egoistic, often injured perimeter player that shoots well every 5th game. 40+ mil, no thanks.
No upside for Memphis in that deal whatsoever.
Wall is absolutely better than Conley. He is a better passer, scorer, defender, rebounder, etc. Conley is a better outside shooter, but that is about it. Conley is also 3 years older than Wall and a much worse injury history that Wall has (Conley's games played the last 5 seasons are 12, 69, 56, 70, 73). In fact, Wall missed 41 last year, but missed just 12 games combined in the 4 seasons prior to that.
I totally get why Memphis might not want to mess up their chemistry since they are winning, but again what if they are a .500 type team in January. Why wouldn't they want to get a younger and better player that is locked up longer (Conley will be older when his current contract ends then Wall will be when Wall's contract ends)
Conley is undoubtedly the better defender, when you factor in substance (not gambling unnecessarily, not getting beat backdoor as a result of losing focus, etc.) over style (athleticism). Plus, Wall would not be a good fit in the Grizzlies slower tempo. Wall excels in transition, which is exactly the style of play the Grizzlies don't want to play. They don't even have the personnel to do so even if they wanted to. Memphis also has issues with spacing/perimeter shooting so bringing in a non-shooter like Wall wouldn't work. Also, they run a lot of offense though Gasol. Conley can space the floor and moves really well off-the-ball, Wall's game detroriates considerably when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.
Just not a good idea for Memphis.
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He has an awful contract starting next season, so that automatically lowers his trade value. However, if Washington is ever going to trade him, now may be the best time, while he has a more reasonable salary to match this season.
I think a team like Milwaukee should take the chance, as their not exactly the mecca for free agents to sign. I know the Buck are playing really well right now, but Wall may be the difference in advancing in the playoffs. Wall for Eric Bledsoe (expiring), Thon Maker, and Donte DiVincenzo.
This will give the Bucks a big 3 of Antetokounmpo, Wall, and Middleton.
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He has an awful contract starting next season, so that automatically lowers his trade value. However, if Washington is ever going to trade him, now may be the best time, while he has a more reasonable salary to match this season.
I think a team like Milwaukee should take the chance, as their not exactly the mecca for free agents to sign. I know the Buck are playing really well right now, but Wall may be the difference in advancing in the playoffs. Wall for Eric Bledsoe (expiring), Thon Maker, and Donte DiVincenzo.
This will give the Bucks a big 3 of Antetokounmpo, Wall, and Middleton.
Agree, I'm actually pretty worried that the Bucks, Sixers, or Raptors land him. All three of those clubs could theoretically match salaries without giving up any of their stars. Throw in some unprotected picks and you get a star without hurting your core much.
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.
Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.
Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. (http://bkref.com/tiny/4zpa9) The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.
Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.
HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.
Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.
Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. (http://bkref.com/tiny/4zpa9) The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.
Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.
HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.
Dude looks like he's stopped caring for years
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/SmnuKqXdA0pXsvyqgz07rL8JYLQ=/0x0:1217x1392/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1217x1392):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11771691/Screen_Shot_2018_07_26_at_3.17.05_PM.png)
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.
Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.
Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. (http://bkref.com/tiny/4zpa9) The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.
Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.
HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.
I agree that Wall has flaws, as does Butler. I was just trying to create a more definitive metric than "good star" or "not good star". Contracts are always a factor in the real world but in the hypothetical forum world, you can simply discuss who is better. I think both are really good players, fairly comparable in talent and historical production. But Wall, when focused, when on his game, can take over (as I have seen him do in some playoff games) more so than Butler can. For that, I give Wall a sight edge over Butler but the main point is that Wall is a comparable talent to Butler and I would expect teams to be interested in Wall.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsgBFeUWsAE7DuP.jpg:large)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25335405/washington-wizards-long-overdue-big-changes-epic-comeback-vs-la-clippers
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.
Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.
Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. (http://bkref.com/tiny/4zpa9) The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.
Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.
HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.
I agree that Wall has flaws, as does Butler. I was just trying to create a more definitive metric than "good star" or "not good star". Contracts are always a factor in the real world but in the hypothetical forum world, you can simply discuss who is better. I think both are really good players, fairly comparable in talent and historical production. But Wall, when focused, when on his game, can take over (as I have seen him do in some playoff games) more so than Butler can. For that, I give Wall a sight edge over Butler but the main point is that Wall is a comparable talent to Butler and I would expect teams to be interested in Wall.
Yeah I don't agree. Butler brings the passion every night, and he's a true elite 2-way player. There are only like 10 of those guys in the league and Wall isn't one.
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for some reason, i can see a team like the Knicks go for Wall, maybe the Lakers too
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.
Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.
Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. (http://bkref.com/tiny/4zpa9) The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.
Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.
HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.
I agree that Wall has flaws, as does Butler. I was just trying to create a more definitive metric than "good star" or "not good star". Contracts are always a factor in the real world but in the hypothetical forum world, you can simply discuss who is better. I think both are really good players, fairly comparable in talent and historical production. But Wall, when focused, when on his game, can take over (as I have seen him do in some playoff games) more so than Butler can. For that, I give Wall a sight edge over Butler but the main point is that Wall is a comparable talent to Butler and I would expect teams to be interested in Wall.
Yeah I don't agree. Butler brings the passion every night, and he's a true elite 2-way player. There are only like 10 of those guys in the league and Wall isn't one.
A couple years back, John Wall was a defensive monster, but can't shoot on offense. Maybe now he could be a two way player with his newfound jumpshot, even with slightly less athleticism.
Though, talking about these hypotheticals without talking about contracts is pointless.
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They should be able to trade Wall if they want to. He is a star player. If I were the Knicks for example, I would try to get him. Courtney Lee, Mudiay (or Frank Ntilikina), and a first round pick, perhaps with some protections?
But he's not a good star player.
I am not sure what you mean but it is all subjective or qualitative. For example, you can start with something like this; I would rather have Wall than Jimmy Butler.
Yeah but, that'd be the wrong choice.
Leadership: Wall has long been a mercurial leader, capable of astonishing highs, but in terms of a day-to-day culture I think we can see here that he's pretty terrible at that.
Gettin' Buckets: Wall is good at getting his own stats usually but his displays of outright dominance are getting fewer and far between. In a league where points are going up, while his own production is steady, his team's production with him on the floor is at the bottom of guys who produce per game counting stats on a level with Wall. (http://bkref.com/tiny/4zpa9) The only guy whose team does worse with him on the floor in the sample size (20ppg, 5apg, 3rpg) is Devin Booker, whose team is in an active tank.
Playing Defense: Wall for a couple of years pulled a Kobe and coasted on a reputation that said he was a good defender based on past numbers when he was putting up mediocre or even bad numbers in the present. The secret is out now; Wall is not a mediocre defender, he's not a bad defender, he's a terrible inactive defender who doesn't give effort.
HE MOVES VERY LITTLE AND IT IS CONCERNING.
I agree that Wall has flaws, as does Butler. I was just trying to create a more definitive metric than "good star" or "not good star". Contracts are always a factor in the real world but in the hypothetical forum world, you can simply discuss who is better. I think both are really good players, fairly comparable in talent and historical production. But Wall, when focused, when on his game, can take over (as I have seen him do in some playoff games) more so than Butler can. For that, I give Wall a sight edge over Butler but the main point is that Wall is a comparable talent to Butler and I would expect teams to be interested in Wall.
Yeah I don't agree. Butler brings the passion every night, and he's a true elite 2-way player. There are only like 10 of those guys in the league and Wall isn't one.
A couple years back, John Wall was a defensive monster, but can't shoot on offense. Maybe now he could be a two way player with his newfound jumpshot, even with slightly less athleticism.
Though, talking about these hypotheticals without talking about contracts is pointless.
Right now (this season), both Butler and Wall make about $20M. Wall already has his extension getting him up in the $40M range for 4 years but isn't it likely that is what it is going to cost to keep Butler too? Both player are about the same age (Wall 28, Butler 29). I think people are rating Butler too high in general, I am not on that train to the same extent. Perhaps that is why I see Wall as more comparable. Washington probably won't get quite what Minni got in the trade but we'll see. In my opinion, there are teams out there that should be trying to get him (Not the Celtics though of course).
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Right now (this season), both Butler and Wall make about $20M. Wall already has his extension getting him up in the $40M range for 4 years but isn't it likely that is what it is going to cost to keep Butler too? Both player are about the same age (Wall 28, Butler 29). I think people are rating Butler too high in general, I am not on that train to the same extent. Perhaps that is why I see Wall as more comparable. Washington probably won't get quite what Minni got in the trade but we'll see. In my opinion, there are teams out there that should be trying to get him (Not the Celtics though of course).
True. Probably like what Zach Lowe said - New Orleans should do it, but only if Anthony Davis tells New Orleans he'll definitely re-sign if they get Wall.
Similar situation in Philly. Their owner can't didn't want to keep being mediocre, and so they made the gamble.
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by the way, as i read this thread i began to wonder just how much wall's salary is. so i looked it up and it is alot, stupid level alot. :o
SEASON WASHINGTON WIZARDS
2018/19 $19,169,800
2019/20 $38,150,000
2020/21 $41,202,000
2021/22 $44,254,000
2022/23 $47,306,000
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I think the Miami heat should consider trading for wall, they have a lot of big contracts, no real star players and are unwilling to tank. Furthermore they have a great culture and coach in place to bring the best out of him.
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According to rumors, Dennis Smith Jr. might be available.
https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dennis-smith-trade/(...) The instant emergence of the Dallas rookie Luka Doncic, combined with longstanding skepticism about Smith’s ability to flourish alongside Doncic in an off-the-ball capacity, has spawned the expectation among many executives that Smith will eventually be moved.
How about Wall to the Mavs for Smith Jr. + Matthews (salary filler) ?
(https://i.imgur.com/VOueoZr.png?1)
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydfvzagk
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
That's how I see it. I think if the Knicks land someone in free agency, like Butler, they will trade for someone like Wall and it'll naturally be terrible. Something like Hardaway Jr, Frank and a 1st
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I have heard they are not getting many offers for Wall.
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My guess is that Wall doesn't get traded until next summer, after several teams strike out on free agents and decide they don't have a better use for their cap space.
This season, I imagine the only teams that might be interested in trading for Wall would be bad teams hoping to become respectable by upgrading at point guard. Those teams (the Magic?) probably aren't going to be willing to give up much in the way of prospects or picks for him.
That's how I see it. I think if the Knicks land someone in free agency, like Butler, they will trade for someone like Wall and it'll naturally be terrible. Something like Hardaway Jr, Frank and a 1st
The problem is, his contract is about half right now what it will be in the summer, making him a lot easier to trade now.
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I'm not sure why people think Wall has value. He doesn't have any as a result of his contract AND his play. The guy will put up raw numbers, but he has awful shot selection, dribbles the air out of the ball, defense is a 50/50 proposition, and plays with inconsistent effort. As a result the Wizards consistently play better when he's out. To read that people think that they'll get a 1st rd pick or a Dennis Smith for him is laughable. The Wizards will be the ones that will have to add assets in order for someone to take on Wall in a salary dump.
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I have heard they are not getting many offers for Wall.
The problem is, his contract is about half right now what it will be in the summer, making him a lot easier to trade now.
I'm not sure why people think Wall has value. He doesn't have any as a result of his contract AND his play. The guy will put up raw numbers, but he has awful shot selection, dribbles the air out of the ball, defense is a 50/50 proposition, and plays with inconsistent effort. As a result the Wizards consistently play better when he's out. To read that people think that they'll get a 1st rd pick or a Dennis Smith for him is laughable. The Wizards will be the ones that will have to add assets in order for someone to take on Wall in a salary dump.
The Wizards aren't getting many offers, since ownership/management isn't really ready to break up the Wall/Beal partnership.
They see that things aren't going like they expected and have (probably) made the decision that they are open to make a change. Either trading away Porter for better role players, or trading away their franchise player for a another All Star or a package built around an upcoming star to rebuild.
In their view there haven't been good enough offers on the table to give up what they have: an underperforming team (with 2 All Stars) that still has a shot to make the playoffs. I don't think they're aware how dangerous it is for them to do nothing. And trading Oubre + Rivers for Ariza is still doing essentially nothing, but I'm sure they also don't realize that!
A GM that signs Mahinmi for 64/4 and Wall for 170/4 definitely isn't someone that looks longterm.
It most definitely is in the Wizards' interest to trade Wall before his extension kicks in. And they should listen to any offer they get. There's probably a chance to get something valuable out of a deal as well (a young player to develop, mid-late 1st), but the most value is to not cripple your franchise! Wait and they indeed have to give up assets to get rid of Wall's deal.
I believe Wizards' management will not be able to realize the full extent of their situation and continue this road and they'll burn for it. (And I will enjoy it)
Why should any other team trade for Wall then? Because in certain situations he could make a team better, where the rewards are greater than the cost. For example a team that has an All Star and wants to make an ultimate push for a title (examples: Lakers, Pelicans), an expensive mediocre team that needs improvement (examples: Pistons, Heat) or a team with a lot of cap space in need for a Point Guard (examples: Knicks, Suns, Magic).
So I think there could be a market for Wall if the Wizards are able to be realistic about his value.
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Should the Knicks go after him or is that just the type of thing the Knicks have been doing forever, to their own detriment? I'm not sure.
But if Wall is truly not fetching interest, maybe the Knicks should try to get him on a deal center around Kanter at the deadline and then shut him down with an "injury" and hope that he and Porzingis entice Durant over the summer. The Knicks print money even when they're awful, they can afford Wall.
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I still think Conley for Wall and Mahinmi makes a lot of sense for both teams.
If the Spurs think a DeRozan/Wall backcourt could work, there is a trade to be made there for both teams as well. Maybe something like Gasol and Mills for Wall and Howard.
Maybe the Wolves. Porter and Wall for Wiggins and Teague. Seems like a better fit around Towns for the Wolves and a better fit around Beal for the Wizards.