Jimmy Butler (Merged Threads)

[liam]

I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler.  They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly.  Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.

I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....

Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract

Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?

[MattyIce]

I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler.  They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly.  Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.

I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....

Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract

Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?

correct, that gets conflated a lot with national media (who call it the supermax w/o understanding the difference)

[liam]

I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler.  They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly.  Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.

I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....

Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract

Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?

correct, that gets conflated a lot with national media (who call it the supermax w/o understanding the difference)

Yes, and thanks to nickagneta for the correction.... and matteo for additional confirmation....

[nickagneta]

I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler.  They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly.  Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.

I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....

Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract

Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?

correct, that gets conflated a lot with national media (who call it the supermax w/o understanding the difference)

Yes, and thanks to nickagneta for the correction.... and matteo for additional confirmation....

Yeah, the supermax is related to the percentage of the salary cap number that can be given out to the player while the 5 year deal is just a year longer deal at the lower percentage. But supermax contracts can be and generally are 5 year deals too, which causes the confusion.

[Moranis]

I just look at supermax's for what they are, which is elevating a player into the next category of max players.  Normally a player like Butler would only be eligible for the 30% max since he is not yet a 10 year veteran.  The supermax rules (which he doesn't qualify for) would allow him to sign a contract that a 10 year veteran would be eligible for if he would have met all of the conditions.  The 10 year veteran max is 35% of the salary cap.  So it just bumps a player up a level.  They also have basically the same thing for rookie scale players as well, allowing them to sign for 30% instead of 25% if they meet all of the conditions.

[Moranis]

Some interesting notes on the starting lineup sheet: Derrick Rose starting for T’Wolves. Also, check out the reason given for Jimmy Butler’s absence. Sure.

https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/1046188074831499264

I missed this, but Butler is actually still rehabbing his wrist injury.  He is nearing health and the Wolves expect him to play this year if they don't have a trade worked out before the start of the season.

[Surferdad]

Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.

1. Superstar demanding a trade.

2. Injury status is a question/issue.

3. Celtics have many assets to offer.

Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?

and now for my least favorite popular phase:  "Just sayin'"

[Mike Pemulis]

No.

[gouki88]

Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.

1. Superstar demanding a trade.

2. Injury status is a question/issue.

3. Celtics have many assets to offer.

Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?

and now for my least favorite popular phase:  "Just sayin'"

God I hope not

[timpiker]

Getting Jimmy Butler would be easy - keeping him makes it almost impossible unless you want to lose Brown or Tatum because of long term $.  It would be stupid to trade jackEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. for a 1 year rental.

[Monkhouse]

Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.

1. Superstar demanding a trade.

2. Injury status is a question/issue.

3. Celtics have many assets to offer.

Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?

and now for my least favorite popular phase:  "Just sayin'"

Why the hell would we ever dream of going after someone like Jimmy Butler? He was the player we dreamed of several years ago; but that ship has sailed...

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Given the likelihood that he winds up with the Heat (for Richardson, Bam, and Tyler Johnson), two questions for the forum:

1) How does the Heat roster and coaching staff matchup with the roster and coaching staffs of the Bucks, Sixers, Raptors, and Celtics ?

2) What could be a realistic second piece to pair with Butler? I don't think they have a championship level second piece right now (and Butler might not be a championship level first piece). Who could that second guy be?

For me, I think the Heat could be EC finalists. I could see them beating the Bucks, Sixers, or Raptors in a 7 game series. I think they have the best coach of the group, and my opinion (probably minority) that thinks the Heat are pretty comparable to the Raptors, Bucks, and Sixers in overall talent.

As far as my second question goes, I don't have many good ideas. Aaron Gordon could be an interesting frontcourt partner, but I don't see any trades to make that happen.

Marc Gasol could fit their window. If the Grizzles stumble out of the gates, maybe he becomes available. A Butler-Dragic-Gasol core would be a nasty playoff team to play against. Again, though, I don't know how the Heat can make that happen.

There's also an outside chance that Lillard or McCullom becomes available, but again I'm not sure what they can offer, and I'm not sure of the fit next to Butler.

[fairweatherfan]

Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.

1. Superstar demanding a trade.

2. Injury status is a question/issue.

3. Celtics have many assets to offer.

Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?

and now for my least favorite popular phase:  "Just sayin'"

Even if he was willing to do the talent swap and thinks Jimmy would stay I have a hard time believing he wants a situation where he has to sign two new max contracts this offseason. It would just bury us financially, and our young wings are so promising it's unclear if it'd make the team all that much better in the long run.

[gouki88]

Given the likelihood that he winds up with the Heat (for Richardson, Bam, and Tyler Johnson), two questions for the forum:

1) How does the Heat roster and coaching staff matchup with the roster and coaching staffs of the Bucks, Sixers, Raptors, and Celtics ?

2) What could be a realistic second piece to pair with Butler? I don't think they have a championship level second piece right now (and Butler might not be a championship level first piece). Who could that second guy be?

For me, I think the Heat could be EC finalists. I could see them beating the Bucks, Sixers, or Raptors in a 7 game series. I think they have the best coach of the group, and my opinion (probably minority) that thinks the Heat are pretty comparable to the Raptors, Bucks, and Sixers in overall talent.

As far as my second question goes, I don't have many good ideas. Aaron Gordon could be an interesting frontcourt partner, but I don't see any trades to make that happen.

Marc Gasol could fit their window. If the Grizzles stumble out of the gates, maybe he becomes available. A Butler-Dragic-Gasol core would be a nasty playoff team to play against. Again, though, I don't know how the Heat can make that happen.

There's also an outside chance that Lillard or McCullom becomes available, but again I'm not sure what they can offer, and I'm not sure of the fit next to Butler.

In terms of your first question, I think quite a lot depends on the development of the young stars of both Philly and Milwaukee, and whether or not Kawhi can return to form.

If Giannis has a top-5 MVP caliber season under Budenzholzer I could see that team being a problem.
I'm less concerned about Philly, because I think they're easier to coach against and are weaker for having lost Ilyasova and Belinelli.
If Kawhi returns to the form he was in pre-injury, which for me was #2 guy in the league form, that makes the Raptors probably the most formidable of the lot, followed by the Bucks, then a Butler-Dragic led Heat and then the Sixers.

However, if Whiteside can return to the guy who averaged nearly 4 blocks per game in less than 30mpg, alongside a really solid stretch-4 in either Olynyk or Johnson, and an improving Winslow, I could see all 4 of those teams being on the same level.

I think you touched upon the important bits about potential Miami moves following the addition of Butler a couple of times - what else could they offer to try and nab to try and propel themselves into true contender status? With Whiteside's value at quite a low level, Dragic ageing and not much promising young talent, it's hard to say that they have a very good crop of assets to offer for someone.

[Moranis]

Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.

1. Superstar demanding a trade.

2. Injury status is a question/issue.

3. Celtics have many assets to offer.

Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?

and now for my least favorite popular phase:  "Just sayin'"

Until Smart can be traded well into the season, the only way Boston can acquire Butler in a trade is to trade one of the 5 core players and at this point that doesn't make a lot of sense.  At one point, not even that long ago, I'd have been ok moving Brown in the trade, but not now (Irving is saying the right things, Butler is still hurt, Butler's lockerroom issues are more known, etc.).  So until Smart can be moved, Boston can't acquire Butler. 

Now if by mid-season Butler is still in Minnesota, is playing well, still wants out, and Boston looks like it could use a jolt and the trade was basically Smart, salary filler, and its own first (so like a pick in the late 20's), then I'd be all for going all in, even if it meant I just let Butler walk at the end of the year.  I'd then re-sign Rozier instead of Smart, as I think Boston can only keep 1 of them anyway.