Sixers Trade Rodney Carney and Calvin Booth to T-Wolves

[Big Ticket]

I love this as a Wolves fan... future 1st rounder and the major athletic and talented Rodney Carney.... why not?  Seems pretty low risk...

[cordobes]

Good trade for both parts (especially if the Sixers can use the space to sign somebody).

Who are the Wolves cutting we can use? Craig Smith? Snyder? Booth? 

[indeedproceed]

If the wolves cut the mad-dog I'd sign him.

[wdleehi]

Maybe Gomes shakes out.


If Posey and Maggette are out of the picture, the combo of Pietrus and Gomes might work.  (probably would have to move Powe or Davis)

[Big Ticket]

If the wolves cut the mad-dog I'd sign him.

I agree, he would ubuntu the..... out of this team.

[cordobes]

If the wolves cut the mad-dog I'd sign him.

He.. but they won't, he still has 2 years in his contract.

Maybe Gomes shakes out.


If Posey and Maggette are out of the picture, the combo of Pietrus and Gomes might work.  (probably would have to move Powe or Davis)

I don't think they are going to let Gomes leave. And Gomes and Pietrus together may replace what Posey brings, but we can't play both of them as one player.

[nickagneta]

I have seen nothing on ESPN concerning the consumation of this deal. Is it only going to go through if Brand verbalizes his intention of going to Philly? It would makes sense as to why Brand would want to hold up his decision to sign with them as he would need the league approving the trade before being able to sign for the cash that the trade makes avaialable.

Huge, giant trickle down effect if he goes to Philly.

- The Clippers and Golden State have tons of cash available and the elite guy is gone off the market.

- Josh Smith and Maggette suddeny find themselves with offers much higher than originally expected.

- Besides Josh Smith perhaps big bucks gets thrown to Okafor, Deng, Gordon or Biedrins as teams like the Grizzless, Warriors, and Clippers have money to spend and holes to fill especially if guys like Pietrus, Maggette, Thomas and Posey go early at MLE money to contenders.

Brand to Philly where most expect Iguodala and Smith and not Brand and Iguodala changes the FA landscape entirely.

[drza44]

I think that his best chance is in LA with Davis.  Think about this: in 2003, the Clippers fielded a line-up of Dre' Miller, Corey Maggette, Lamar Odom, Elton Brand, and Olowokandi.  That isn't dramatically different on paper talentwise or stylistically than a line-up of Dre' Miller, Andre' Iguodala, Thad Young, Elton Brand, and Dalembert.  That Clippers team went 27-55.  Now granted Brand and Miller are more experienced now, and hopefully the attitudes/fit/health would be better, so I'd expect playoffs instead of lottery.  But still, I don't see that team's ceiling as championship.

The West may have more quality teams, but there Brand would be paired with Baron Davis.  That's two borderline superstars instead of one plus a bunch of just "good" players like he'd have in Philly.  That teams peak would be on the order of New Orleans or Utah, who most consider to be contenders.  So if I were him, I'd be signing up to stay in LA if the consideration really is where the team would be best.

Two things about the 02-03 Clippers, they had more injuries than just about any team has had in awhile.  All 15 players started at least 1 game and 11 players started at least 10 games.  These are the games played from their starters Brand 62, Maggette 64, Odom 49, Kandi 36, Miller 80.  These are the games played from the other 10 guys: Piatkowski 62, Richardson 54, Jaric 66, Dooling 55, Rooks 70, Parks 30, Ely 52, Zhizhi 41, Wilcox 46, Fowlkes 37.  The team had so many injuries and so many different lineups it was ridiculous.

Second, the only guy to play virtually the entire year was Andre Miller and he was a cancer.  He didn't want to be there and Sterling made it known early on he wasn't going to pay Miller in the off season, which just made it worse.  Miller destroyed whatever consistency and continuity that team may have had.  I have no idea how Miller and Brand got along that year so I don't know if that will affect Brand's decision at all, but Miller was about as big a team destroyer that has ever existed.

I agree with you, and even mention the injuries and attitudes in my original post, though admittedly I didn't go into as much detail.  But even with those factors involved, I can't imagine the proposed Philly team winning a title, or even really being a legitimate contender.  I could see them winning twice as many games as that Clippers team in a best case scenario, maybe entering the playoffs as a #3 or 4 seed in the East in a best case scenario.  But I can't imagine them actually having a chance to make a Finals. 

Whereas, like I said, I think think a Brand/Baron/Kaman/Thornton/Gordon team has a ceiling similar to the Hornets or Jazz.  Whether you think that is championship contender is up to you, but if it were me I'd prefer that base than the Philly squad.

[drza44]

I love this as a Wolves fan... future 1st rounder and the major athletic and talented Rodney Carney.... why not?  Seems pretty low risk...

Agreed.  I am more excited about the pick than Carney, but as you point out it's very low risk and there's nice potential for a payoff.  Win-win.

[Moranis]

I think that his best chance is in LA with Davis.  Think about this: in 2003, the Clippers fielded a line-up of Dre' Miller, Corey Maggette, Lamar Odom, Elton Brand, and Olowokandi.  That isn't dramatically different on paper talentwise or stylistically than a line-up of Dre' Miller, Andre' Iguodala, Thad Young, Elton Brand, and Dalembert.  That Clippers team went 27-55.  Now granted Brand and Miller are more experienced now, and hopefully the attitudes/fit/health would be better, so I'd expect playoffs instead of lottery.  But still, I don't see that team's ceiling as championship.

The West may have more quality teams, but there Brand would be paired with Baron Davis.  That's two borderline superstars instead of one plus a bunch of just "good" players like he'd have in Philly.  That teams peak would be on the order of New Orleans or Utah, who most consider to be contenders.  So if I were him, I'd be signing up to stay in LA if the consideration really is where the team would be best.

Two things about the 02-03 Clippers, they had more injuries than just about any team has had in awhile.  All 15 players started at least 1 game and 11 players started at least 10 games.  These are the games played from their starters Brand 62, Maggette 64, Odom 49, Kandi 36, Miller 80.  These are the games played from the other 10 guys: Piatkowski 62, Richardson 54, Jaric 66, Dooling 55, Rooks 70, Parks 30, Ely 52, Zhizhi 41, Wilcox 46, Fowlkes 37.  The team had so many injuries and so many different lineups it was ridiculous.

Second, the only guy to play virtually the entire year was Andre Miller and he was a cancer.  He didn't want to be there and Sterling made it known early on he wasn't going to pay Miller in the off season, which just made it worse.  Miller destroyed whatever consistency and continuity that team may have had.  I have no idea how Miller and Brand got along that year so I don't know if that will affect Brand's decision at all, but Miller was about as big a team destroyer that has ever existed.

I agree with you, and even mention the injuries and attitudes in my original post, though admittedly I didn't go into as much detail.  But even with those factors involved, I can't imagine the proposed Philly team winning a title, or even really being a legitimate contender.  I could see them winning twice as many games as that Clippers team in a best case scenario, maybe entering the playoffs as a #3 or 4 seed in the East in a best case scenario.  But I can't imagine them actually having a chance to make a Finals. 

Whereas, like I said, I think think a Brand/Baron/Kaman/Thornton/Gordon team has a ceiling similar to the Hornets or Jazz.  Whether you think that is championship contender is up to you, but if it were me I'd prefer that base than the Philly squad.

Dalembert is better than Kaman (imo).  AI is a very solid second fiddle and while not as good as B Diddy, I would have a lot more confidence in AI's ability to hold up long term and play a full slate of games.  Miller is a better third option than anything on the Clippers (assuming Maggette leaves of course).  Remember this a Philly team that pushed Detroit in the first round and would be adding Brand and Spreights and gets another year out of Young and Smith.

[Who]

Very smart trade from both teams. Phily gets their cap space. Minnesota gets a draft pick for putting up with some temporary clutter.

Is it only two guys (Brand, Josh Smith) that Phily seem to be targeting?

I haven't heard anyone else linked strongly with them.

Does Elton Brand turn them into a contender?

Brand was close to an MVP level awhile back. Iggy is a borderline All-Star. Dalembert is a top defensive center and all round quality player. Andre Miller is a very good starting point guard. They have some role players there (Reggie Evans, Willie Green, Jason Smith) and three prospects in Speights, Thaddeus, Louis Williams. The physical size of Thaddeus and Iggy on the wings would be very imposing, two very talented defensive players, who could control the tempo of games with their athleticism and skill levels. Dalembert and Brand controlling the boards and the paint. Phily's offense was horrible last year because they lacked an extra scorer, an inside presence, outside shooting. Brand solves two of those problems well enough to vault them into contender status.

Who would be better with Brand - Phily or the Clippers?

Phily have a much easier road to the Finals. Elton Brand's acquisition alone likely gets them to the second round/conference finals. Clippers aren't even certain of a playoff spot. Clippers have better individual talent. Phily have a better collective talent in the sense you already know how all the pieces fit together and how well they work together. They're already a top rebounding and defensive squad. Clippers are relying on having no bench in place and two fresh youngsters on the wing whereas Phily is only relying on one unproven wing (whoever starts, hopefully Thaddeus) in an important role on their entire roster. If a few things pan out for the Clips they'd be better but there's more uncertainty there due to their larger amount of unproven talent and their tougher road to the playoffs.

Tough call. It's close. I'd go Phily but there's a lot of reasons to pick the Clips also.

What about Josh Smith and his impact in Phily?

He'd secure their spot in playoff mediocrity (perennial playoff team but not a contender) ..... but his skill set and fit in Phily would make them dangerous and capable of an upset come playoff time. Two shot blockers and defensive players of their caliber in the paint would be very interesting plus he's great in the open court and for the first time in his career he'd play on a team that allowed him to run.

[Cman]

Who would be better with Brand - Phily or the Clippers?

Phily have a much easier road to the Finals. Elton Brand's acquisition alone likely gets them to the second round/conference finals. Clippers aren't even certain of a playoff spot. Clippers have better individual talent. Phily have a better collective talent in the sense you already know how all the pieces fit together and how well they work together. They're already a top rebounding and defensive squad. Clippers are relying on having no bench in place and two fresh youngsters on the wing whereas Phily is only relying on one unproven wing (whoever starts, hopefully Thaddeus) in an important role on their entire roster. If a few things pan out for the Clips they'd be better but there's more uncertainty there due to their larger amount of unproven talent and their tougher road to the playoffs.

Tough call. It's close. I'd go Phily but there's a lot of reasons to pick the Clips also.

Interesting question (all around good post -- TP)

I think Philly mostly because the East is weaker than the West, and also because while the Clips now have Baron Davis, I would worry a little bit about his injury history.  If he is out for any extended period of time, the Clips will go nowhere.  I think there is a little more balance in Philly.

[Big Ticket]

I don't think there's any question that Brand is in a better position in Philly.  The conference is infinitely thinner, and as you said, even if he sticks with the Clippers, a playoff spot is no guarantee.  I would think Philly with Brand would be fighting with Toronto, Washington, Cleveland for the 4 spot in the East.  They also have more young talent and would be more poised to step in as a conference power when the Celtics' three amigos are aged and the Pistons core is no longer in tact.  The Clippers aren't going to be getting much better than they'd be next year, which already might not be as good as 4-5 Western teams and behind a few others in terms of growth potential.

[nickagneta]

ESPN is reporting everything is a done deal. Booth, Carney and a 1st to Minny for the trade exemption and a 2nd round pick. Pending league approval, Brand will then close for 5 years $82 million in Philly.

[Chief]

I have a feeling that Elton Brand is about to bamboozle Baron Davis and the Clippers like Carlos Boozer did the Cavs a few years ago.

Nah.  Brand already stated he wants to win and that money isn't everything.  He has already made tons of money and he will still make a lot of money with the Clippers.  His best chance to win will be to play with Baron, not to go to the Warriors and be the lone allstar once again.

His best chance to win is to get out of the West. Philly with Brand is just as good or better than the Clippers.

Miller
Green
Iguodala
Brand
Dalembert

I would not be surprised to see Tony Allen go there also. It would be a perfect fit. And if the Sixers do sign him (Brand), we ought to be really worried.

If my Tony Allen prediction comes true, I'll be 100% on this subject. And I have a feeling it will.