Katie Nolan re: Greg Hardy

[Roy H.]

Think, Tom Brady was lumped into the same boat as this guy as far as suspension length goes. Great job, NFL!

In fairness to the NFL, they tried to suspend him for 10 games (after suspending him with pay the previous season).  The same legal system that got Brady off got Hardy's suspension reduced.

[knuckleballer]

I'm not going to win many friends by saying this, but I don't think Hardy meant anything offensive and I also don't think he is guilty of the crime he was accused of.

The description of the beating by his accuser was horrifically brutal.  He pushed her to the ground and she ran to the bathroom where he grabbed her and slammed her repeatedly into the toilet.  He, and keep in mind he's a 6'4" 275 lb. powerhouse, then picked her up over his head and slammed her down into a hard tiled bath tub.  Then he dragged her out of the tub and into a different room by her hair where he proceeded to strangle her while threatening to murder her.  He then grabbed her forearm and tried to break it.  Then picked her up and threw her across the room and then picked her up again and threw her onto a couch full of guns.

Despite this vicious beating, it was revealed during the bench trial that she walked away with nothing more than a dime sized bruise on her shoulder.  That doesn't add up to me. 

He also stopped in the middle of his rage and called the cops asking them to come to his apartment and remove his violent girlfriend because he was too afraid to touch her.  He could also be heard on the phone call yelling to his friend to keep holding her back and not let her near him.  Now, it's possible he had the presence of mind to do that to cover for his actions, but considering the rage she described, that sounds unlikely.  The police arrived and said he was cooperative while she refused to talk and the police thought she was fine and let her go.  Her complaint came a day or days later, I don't recall exactly.

A couple of days earlier, police were called to another domestic disturbance between the two in a parking lot of, I think, a mall.  A security guard called them after seeing her becoming violent.  The police got there and found him locked in his car while she was outside kicking it and damaging it.  The police, the security guard, and random bystaders all said she was out of control and violent while he remained calm the whole time.

We also know she was on cocaine and alcohol the night of the attack and he had only been drinking and did not sound particularly drunk on his phone call to the police.

Now, he was found guilty in a bench trial, but my understanding is that in NC that is not much more than an indictment where his lawyers were very limited and it was wrapped up within a day.  The judge said she did not believe the accusing girl would attack a man of his size which is pretty ridiculous and unfair.  But it was really only an indictment as he could and did request a jury trial expunging the guiltly verdict.

The prosecutors in the jury trial dropped the case.  They said they could not find her... while as we know she was traveling the country posting Instagram photos of herself vacationing in posh locations while spending the money he paid her.  The prosecution did not actually need her to testify, but as they said, there were contradictions in her statements and the case was not strong enough for a trial.

I feel like in this case, the accusation is so horrible and the issue so sensitive that we don't bother looking at both sides of the story and rush to judgment.

I'm curious if your perspective has changed with the release of the photos?

http://deadspin.com/this-is-why-nfl-star-greg-hardy-was-arrested-for-assaul-1739117634

Greg Hardy is a scumbag.  His comments about Giselle and "guns blazing" don't bother me.  This stuff does.

After seeing those photos, I take back what I wrote.  Those photos are not consistent at all with what I read.  The transcript from the bench trial stated she only had a single bruise the size of a dime.  Obviously, that's not true.

My apologies.  I agree he's a scumbag.

[rondohondo]

Would be nice if someone took him out for the rest of the year with a nice chop block .

[knuckleballer]

I'm curious if your perspective has changed with the release of the photos?

http://deadspin.com/this-is-why-nfl-star-greg-hardy-was-arrested-for-assaul-1739117634

Greg Hardy is a scumbag.  His comments about Giselle and "guns blazing" don't bother me.  This stuff does.

The reason his comments bothered me, and, I think, Katie Nolan, is that Greg Hardy is a scumbag, we all know he's a scumbag, HE knows he's a scumbag, and yet there he is, a smiling satisfied scumbag, making these comments in his first press conference back from a suspension for being a scumbag, letting the whole world know that he's a scumbag and he's proud to be one, and guess what, we all enable him to be one, this, in fact, is what we PAY him to be.  Are you not entertained?

I based my comments on what I had read.  There were a number of articles from local NC news sites back six months ago that painted a very different picture than what I am seeing now in those photos.  I didn't mean to offend, I was just trying to be fair and objective.  Given those photos, clearly I was wrong.  I admit that.

[PhoSita]

Reading the report, mainly I'm glad she was able to get away without getting hurt any worse.

[mmmmm]

Yeah it seems like it's more about "Greg Hardy is a scumbag with serious abuse issues" and the comments are just a springboard for going after that.  It's not like he's no longer a scumbag with serious abuse issues if he uses a different metaphor.

The "guns blazes" thing was the smallest part of what he did in the interview that was worthy of some outrage, but it's all part of the context that makes it seem like he's laughing at the fact that he's playing in the league again after getting away with what he did to his girlfriend.

And I think Katie Nolan's (justifiable) rage is not so much at Greg Hardy, but at the league, her colleagues, and at all of us for being willing to tolerate, and even encourage, dirtbags like Greg Hardy.  In some way this is all kind of a joke, just part of the entertainment.

That's messed up.  It's representative of a lot of things that make women feel like this sport and the entire industry around it is not just callous to women but actually hostile toward them.

Sure, I'm just saying the real story is about Greg Hardy's character and more broadly the misogynistic attitudes woven into NFL culture, not anything he actually said during the interview.  The comments just make a convenient intro into the real story.  Which is fine, using recent examples are a good way for journalists/pundits to lead into that kind of broader commentary. 

But like I said, it's not like more appropriate responses would somehow make him a better person, so the converse is that these responses may be very poorly chosen, but they don't actually change anything about the bigger story, they just exemplify it in a journalistically useful way.

Agreed.  I think this instance is more than anything an opportunity to comment on the bigger stuff that's at play.  I think Katie Nolan's outrage is very real and very understandable.  I can't begin to imagine the kind of things she has to put up with on a daily basis trying to make it in the field she works in.

Agreed.  The outrage isn't really aimed at what Hardy said.   Nolan properly is simply disgusted with him.  The outrage is aimed at the context around Hardy, the enabling culture, that allows him to continue to act like a piece of garbage - and get paid millions for it.

[mmmmm]

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

Seriously?

So ... if a girl wears sexy clothes she's not entitled to object if someone fondles her?  Or to call it out if her fellow females are objectified and mistreated?   Is this really what you believe, Roy?

Wow.  I mean just wow.

[csfansince60s]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGrL39Q99sE&feature=youtu.be

Boy is Emma Stone hot!..............ZAPPPPP!!.....OWWWW!!!.....just got one of those Harrison Bergeron jolts to the back of my head.

How'd they do that???

[Roy H.]

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

Seriously?

So ... if a girl wears sexy clothes she's not entitled to object if someone fondles her?  Or to call it out if her fellow females are objectified and mistreated?   Is this really what you believe, Roy?

Wow.  I mean just wow.

Do not put words in my mouth.  It's disingenuous.   At worst, you're intentionally twisting my words in a dishonest way to make a personal attack.  At best, your inability to comprehend basic arguments has turned a civil discussion into a volatile one.

My advice:  if you do not have the capacity to discuss matters without twisting them into inaccurate caricatures, do not enter into such discussions.

Anybody who takes my argument -- i.e., Nolan has traded on her looks and stereotypical / sexist / racist / lewd jokes to advance her career, and now seems hypocritical for being morally outraged about Hardy's fairly innocuous statements -- and turns it into a "Nolan wears sexy clothing, so Greg Hardy should be able to fondle her without her defending herself" either has an agenda or has no ability to engage in adult conversation.  If you're trying to be a White Knight Of The Keyboard, you're doing it wrong.

[PhoSita]

Do not put words in my mouth.  It's disingenuous.   At worst, you're intentionally twisting my words in a dishonest way to make a personal attack.  At best, your inability to comprehend basic arguments has turned a civil discussion into a volatile one.

My advice:  if you do not have the capacity to discuss matters without twisting them into inaccurate caricatures, do not enter into such discussions.

I agree that M5's characterization of what you said goes a little too far.  That said, I think it's unfair to say that because Nolan has participated in some of the culture that she's railing against, that she loses her credibility to do so.


To me, it's like saying that somebody like, I dunno, Eddie Murphy, doesn't have the credibility to comment on the prevalence of stereotyped portrayals of black people in media because he's profited from some of those kinds of roles.

My point being that I think you have to give a little bit of slack to somebody who may have had to participate or tolerate somewhat in the dominant culture just to make it to where they are.  It doesn't invalidate their outrage at that culture; in fact, reinforces the notion that they in fact know what they're talking about.


I imagine that Ms. Nolan would herself admit that some of the things she's participated in (and again, I'm going off hearsay here, since I'm not really familiar with her career) were problematic and maybe she shouldn't have done them.

[Roy H.]

Do not put words in my mouth.  It's disingenuous.   At worst, you're intentionally twisting my words in a dishonest way to make a personal attack.  At best, your inability to comprehend basic arguments has turned a civil discussion into a volatile one.

My advice:  if you do not have the capacity to discuss matters without twisting them into inaccurate caricatures, do not enter into such discussions.

I agree that M5's characterization of what you said goes a little too far.  That said, I think it's unfair to say that because Nolan has participated in some of the culture that she's railing against, that she loses her credibility to do so.


To me, it's like saying that somebody like, I dunno, Eddie Murphy, doesn't have the credibility to comment on the prevalence of stereotyped portrayals of black people in media because he's profited from some of those kinds of roles.

My point being that I think you have to give a little bit of slack to somebody who may have had to participate or tolerate somewhat in the dominant culture just to make it to where they are.  It doesn't invalidate their outrage at that culture; in fact, reinforces the notion that they in fact know what they're talking about.


I imagine that Ms. Nolan would herself admit that some of the things she's participated in (and again, I'm going off hearsay here, since I'm not really familiar with her career) were problematic and maybe she shouldn't have done them.

I don't know.  If Chris Rock acted outraged because somebody else used racial humor, I'd think he was a hypocrite.  It doesn't mean that Chris Rock can't have positions on racial issues.  It just means he looks like a bit of a hypocrite if he attacks the mechanism of humor.

Katie Nolan is a borderline-trashy comedienne who routinely using sexual / sexist / racist humor.  For her to then be outraged about semantics -- "guns blazing" -- and Hardy finding a supermodel who became famous for walking the runway in her underwear to be attractive just seems hypocritical.  It's the wrong messenger.

Katie Nolan can have whatever opinion she wants on Greg Hardy.  If she thinks he's a horrible human being, I agree.  I just think her mechanism of attacking him here was off-base.  Don't attack him for his use of euphemisms and his "I hope Giselle is at the game" comments, both of which were less offensive than much of Nolan's act.  Instead, attack him for being a coward who beats on the weak and vulnerable.

[indeedproceed]

I kind of think if Katie Nolan is "the messenger" on Greg Hardy, we all screwed up by not paying attention at all about how terrible Greg Hardy is.

I think Katie Nolan is using the same fundamental on-ramp Bill Simmons and Dan Lebatard used in terms of tone to express her point of view.

[mmmmm]

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

Seriously?

So ... if a girl wears sexy clothes she's not entitled to object if someone fondles her?  Or to call it out if her fellow females are objectified and mistreated?   Is this really what you believe, Roy?

Wow.  I mean just wow.

Do not put words in my mouth.  It's disingenuous.   At worst, you're intentionally twisting my words in a dishonest way to make a personal attack.  At best, your inability to comprehend basic arguments has turned a civil discussion into a volatile one.

My advice:  if you do not have the capacity to discuss matters without twisting them into inaccurate caricatures, do not enter into such discussions.

Anybody who takes my argument -- i.e., Nolan has traded on her looks and stereotypical / sexist / racist / lewd jokes to advance her career, and now seems hypocritical for being morally outraged about Hardy's fairly innocuous statements -- and turns it into a "Nolan wears sexy clothing, so Greg Hardy should be able to fondle her without her defending herself" either has an agenda or has no ability to engage in adult conversation.  If you're trying to be a White Knight Of The Keyboard, you're doing it wrong.

Roy, you are a mod.  And you may ban me or whatever for this.  But you are full of it.

What you said DIRECTLY maps to what I posited.  There is nothing disingenuous about it.  That's exactly how your words read.

You are now trying to deflect (on me) in the worst way by name calling, and frankly, none of this makes you look good.

There is a million miles of difference between what Nolan does, which is to make fun of the mutual sexual foibles of both men and women as a tool for harmless entertainment and what Hardy did, which was to merge sex with violence.

Entertainers can make fun of and utilize lust in humor and drama and entertainment without disrespecting or abusing anyone.  You can lust for a member of the opposite sex and still show honest respect for them.  Billions of couples all over the world do that.   That is a vast distance away from what Hardy said, which was heavily laden with the context of violence.

If you cannot comprehend the void between the two, and if you cannot understand that how a woman's attire or appearance should have NOTHING to do with the credibility of her statements then I submit that it is you, Roy, who are incapable of having an "adult conversation".

Call me a "White Knight of the keyboard" if you want.  It's the childish thing to do.

[mmmmm]

Do not put words in my mouth.  It's disingenuous.   At worst, you're intentionally twisting my words in a dishonest way to make a personal attack.  At best, your inability to comprehend basic arguments has turned a civil discussion into a volatile one.

My advice:  if you do not have the capacity to discuss matters without twisting them into inaccurate caricatures, do not enter into such discussions.

I agree that M5's characterization of what you said goes a little too far.  That said, I think it's unfair to say that because Nolan has participated in some of the culture that she's railing against, that she loses her credibility to do so.


To me, it's like saying that somebody like, I dunno, Eddie Murphy, doesn't have the credibility to comment on the prevalence of stereotyped portrayals of black people in media because he's profited from some of those kinds of roles.

My point being that I think you have to give a little bit of slack to somebody who may have had to participate or tolerate somewhat in the dominant culture just to make it to where they are.  It doesn't invalidate their outrage at that culture; in fact, reinforces the notion that they in fact know what they're talking about.


I imagine that Ms. Nolan would herself admit that some of the things she's participated in (and again, I'm going off hearsay here, since I'm not really familiar with her career) were problematic and maybe she shouldn't have done them.

I don't know.  If Chris Rock acted outraged because somebody else used racial humor, I'd think he was a hypocrite.  It doesn't mean that Chris Rock can't have positions on racial issues.  It just means he looks like a bit of a hypocrite if he attacks the mechanism of humor.

Katie Nolan is a borderline-trashy comedienne who routinely using sexual / sexist / racist humor.  For her to then be outraged about semantics -- "guns blazing" -- and Hardy finding a supermodel who became famous for walking the runway in her underwear to be attractive just seems hypocritical.  It's the wrong messenger.

Katie Nolan can have whatever opinion she wants on Greg Hardy.  If she thinks he's a horrible human being, I agree.  I just think her mechanism of attacking him here was off-base.  Don't attack him for his use of euphemisms and his "I hope Giselle is at the game" comments, both of which were less offensive than much of Nolan's act.  Instead, attack him for being a coward who beats on the weak and vulnerable.

Seems to me she was more outraged at and attacking the NFL and the Cowboys and the media for enabling him to continue to be the garbage we all agree that he is.

[Roy H.]

She's a treat.  Jokes about p0rn, masturbation, Asians, sexual harassment, etc.  It's funny, in a fratboy-esque way, but it's decidedly misogynistic and at times racial.  Basically, her schtick is being a hot girl who wears revealing clothing who says politically incorrect things.  She's maybe not the right messenger to deliver this particular message.

Seriously?

So ... if a girl wears sexy clothes she's not entitled to object if someone fondles her?  Or to call it out if her fellow females are objectified and mistreated?   Is this really what you believe, Roy?

Wow.  I mean just wow.

Do not put words in my mouth.  It's disingenuous.   At worst, you're intentionally twisting my words in a dishonest way to make a personal attack.  At best, your inability to comprehend basic arguments has turned a civil discussion into a volatile one.

My advice:  if you do not have the capacity to discuss matters without twisting them into inaccurate caricatures, do not enter into such discussions.

Anybody who takes my argument -- i.e., Nolan has traded on her looks and stereotypical / sexist / racist / lewd jokes to advance her career, and now seems hypocritical for being morally outraged about Hardy's fairly innocuous statements -- and turns it into a "Nolan wears sexy clothing, so Greg Hardy should be able to fondle her without her defending herself" either has an agenda or has no ability to engage in adult conversation.  If you're trying to be a White Knight Of The Keyboard, you're doing it wrong.

Roy, you are a mod.  And you may ban me or whatever for this.  But you are full of it.

What you said DIRECTLY maps to what I posited.  There is nothing disingenuous about it.  That's exactly how your words read.

You are now trying to deflect (on me) in the worst way by name calling, and frankly, none of this makes you look good.

There is a million miles of difference between what Nolan does, which is to make fun of the mutual sexual foibles of both men and women as a tool for harmless entertainment and what Hardy did, which was to merge sex with violence.

Entertainers can make fun of and utilize lust in humor and drama and entertainment without disrespecting or abusing anyone.  You can lust for a member of the opposite sex and still show honest respect for them.  Billions of couples all over the world do that.   That is a vast distance away from what Hardy said, which was heavily laden with the context of violence.

If you cannot comprehend the void between the two, and if you cannot understand that how a woman's attire or appearance should have NOTHING to do with the credibility of her statements then I submit that it is you, Roy, who are incapable of having an "adult conversation".

Call me a "White Knight of the keyboard" if you want.  It's the childish thing to do.

That this comes from one of our more articulate members make me sad for our culture.  No wonder Donald Trump resonates with so many.

Anybody who reads what I wrote and interprets that to mean "if a girl wears sexy clothes she's not entitled to object if someone fondles her" is either a troll or an imbecile.  It's nothing short of an intentional misrepresentation, or in common parlance, a lie.