The Rozier hate is misguided

[feckless]

Honestly it's a good thing Rozier is a free agent this year.  He has the talent but he was a toxic influence on the lockerroom.  Let him get paid elsewhere.  He would never be good enough to take over for Kyrie.

Celtics likely are getting the #9, #14, and #20 picks this year.  They probably trade Tatum, #9, #14, and maybe another 1st rounder for AD.  That means we can pick up a backup point at #20 no problem.  And this young guy won't have any ego issues, at least not in his rookie year.

I don't hate Rozier, but I think his time in Boston is up and it's a good thing for the team to move on without him.

How do you know he was a toxic influence?  Do not just make stuff up.

Yes, because his recent comments about the Celtics reveal how great of a teammate he is.

The dissension and comments were Kyrie's, Rozier was professional.

[Monkhouse]

Honestly it's a good thing Rozier is a free agent this year.  He has the talent but he was a toxic influence on the lockerroom.  Let him get paid elsewhere.  He would never be good enough to take over for Kyrie.

Celtics likely are getting the #9, #14, and #20 picks this year.  They probably trade Tatum, #9, #14, and maybe another 1st rounder for AD.  That means we can pick up a backup point at #20 no problem.  And this young guy won't have any ego issues, at least not in his rookie year.

I don't hate Rozier, but I think his time in Boston is up and it's a good thing for the team to move on without him.

How do you know he was a toxic influence?  Do not just make stuff up.

Yes, because his recent comments about the Celtics reveal how great of a teammate he is.

The dissension and comments were Kyrie's, Rozier was professional.

No comment.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

he has ZERO BBIQ

END THREAD

[Monkhouse]

he has ZERO BBIQ

END THREAD

Rozier is the best PG in the league, he also sacrificed the most. I mean dude, what the heck is wrong with you? You need to seriously change your username before you disrespect the man, the legend, SCARY FREAKIN' TERRY!!

/s

 

[feckless]

"Rozier couldn’t help himself, but when it came to his coach, he drew a line. Brad Stevens had said this was the most trying season of his coaching career – that he had done a “bad” job."

“That’s just Brad being humble, man,” said Rozier. “That’s the type of person he is, taking the blame for stuff. I don’t want to kick nobody while they’re down. I’m down too. We’re a team. We all lost. He can’t take the blame for that.”

[Big333223]

The Rozier hate is not misguided. He was awful this season and it seems like a big part of him being so bad came from a selfish desire to play more.

No one is blaming him for the season going the way it went. But he certainly contributed to it.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

He's a bit of a gunner, shoots a low percentage, and has not proven to be a notable passer. I'm hoping Danny lets him walk, though I would've preferred that Danny trade him for something during the season. I think Boston needs to acquire a legit veteran PG à la D.J. Augustin.

[PhoSita]

Not as misguided as his jumper.


Zing!

[feckless]

The Rozier hate is not misguided. He was awful this season and it seems like a big part of him being so bad came from a selfish desire to play more.

No one is blaming him for the season going the way it went. But he certainly contributed to it.

The same kind of baseless opinion “seems like it came from a selfish desire to play more”.  You can’t know that.  It is at best a guess based on what, nothing that I am aware of.  Please explain instead of throwing around baseless guesses.

[feckless]

Not as misguided as his jumper.


Zing!

This is fair he absolutely lost confidence in his jumper.

[ozgod]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.

But keep in mind when he is the actual point that's controlling the offense, instead of sporadically coming in giving someone a breather, he takes real good care of the ball and his "point guard" decisions are not bad at all. And see...the point guard position is the hardest to learn and everything about the team becomes your issue. It's the point that has to know when a big needs the ball and what spot he wants it. What defender is guarding who, and knowing when NOT to pass the ball. Knowing when a teammate has a mismatch to exploit. When to push the ball and when not to...and on and on. Seriously Terry is not bad at all running the show. Now when he's off the ball, he's kinda undersized and also he has NO MORE CONTROL OF THE TEAM.  This is why I don't throw garbage his way this year. And how many years has Smart been here?  This year is the first year he looks like a complete point guard.  That position takes the most time to learn if you didn't grow up playing it naturally.  Look at Billups...Pitino actually gave up on him and in hindsight was pretty bone-headed.

That run last year was too long and too consistent to be a fluke. And they figured out on the fly how to beat this exact same team that just humiliated us.

And I didn't even get into his intangibles because I don't wanna argue with Terry-haters, but i'm telling everybody that he fits the point spot here much better than Kyrie will ever.

And what good is Kyries scoring when Tatum, JB, and Hayward, can't get in any offensive flow and Al get's a couple postups all game?

While you're paying Hayward 30 million dollars a year?

Look, I don't hate Kyrie, but when I say his game screws up this team from top to bottom, I really mean it. 

22 points a game is not a big enough payoff to allow that.  Hell, Antoine averaged about 22-10-5, while running the show, and people always wanted him outta here.

Kyrie doesn't give us a fraction of what Antoine did.

This whole fan base is seriously misguided and judge most things incorrectly.

I wouldn't call the Bucks the exact same team...they didn't have Lopez, Ilyasova and Mirotic and most importantly they didn't have Budenholzer.

[Sophomore]

The Rozier hate is not misguided. He was awful this season and it seems like a big part of him being so bad came from a selfish desire to play more.

No one is blaming him for the season going the way it went. But he certainly contributed to it.

The same kind of baseless opinion “seems like it came from a selfish desire to play more”.  You can’t know that.  It is at best a guess based on what, nothing that I am aware of.  Please explain instead of throwing around baseless guesses.

That is not a baseless opinion. What did he say in the interview? That he sacrificed more than anybody. I take him at his word - that’s how he saw it - which means he had an inflated understanding of his abilities and what his role should’ve been on the team.

You don’t talk about how much you  “sacrificed” when you haven't earned the starting role! The job fell to him due to injury last year, and at his best he was a bottom ten NBA starter last year. You say his problem was “only” inefficient shooting. He was about six points below league average for in true shooting, which put him about 120th out of 160 guards who played 15 minutes or more. That is, let us say, not earning you the starting job on a playoff team unless your other skills are exceptional. But he is not, by anyone’s estimation, a creative passer or game manager (Smart is light years better), and  I lost count of the number of times he let someone go right by him to the rim. His early shot-clock threes, without ever passing the ball, his aimless drives into hopeless floaters, stood out even on a team that fell because of bad chemistry and too much hero ball.

Net, he didn't “sacrifice” anything. He got roughly what he’d earned, and maybe a little more  - which by the way was a lot! He had a significant role on a playoff team that had playoff aspirations. Look at what George Hill was able to do for Milwaukee that series - that's an important role, if you're able to fill it. Or, imagine if Rozier had simply handled himself the way a more mature Jaylen Brown did this year, adjusting his game and growing as a player. He would be looking at a better contract and none of the fan hate he faces now.

I don’t hate him personally - I hope he figures it out. But I do hate the way he played the game this year.

[Green-18]

The Rozier hate is not misguided. He was awful this season and it seems like a big part of him being so bad came from a selfish desire to play more.

No one is blaming him for the season going the way it went. But he certainly contributed to it.

The same kind of baseless opinion “seems like it came from a selfish desire to play more”.  You can’t know that.  It is at best a guess based on what, nothing that I am aware of.  Please explain instead of throwing around baseless guesses.

That is not a baseless opinion. What did he say in the interview? That he sacrificed more than anybody. I take him at his word - that’s how he saw it - which means he had an inflated understanding of his abilities and what his role should’ve been on the team.

You don’t talk about how much you  “sacrificed” when you haven't earned the starting role! The job fell to him due to injury last year, and at his best he was a bottom ten NBA starter last year. You say his problem was “only” inefficient shooting. He was about six points below league average for in true shooting, which put him about 120th out of 160 guards who played 15 minutes or more. That is, let us say, not earning you the starting job on a playoff team unless your other skills are exceptional. But he is not, by anyone’s estimation, a creative passer or game manager (Smart is light years better), and  I lost count of the number of times he let someone go right by him to the rim. His early shot-clock threes, without ever passing the ball, his aimless drives into hopeless floaters, stood out even on a team that fell because of bad chemistry and too much hero ball.

Net, he didn't “sacrifice” anything. He got roughly what he’d earned, and maybe a little more  - which by the way was a lot! He had a significant role on a playoff team that had playoff aspirations. Look at what George Hill was able to do for Milwaukee that series - that's an important role, if you're able to fill it. Or, imagine if Rozier had simply handled himself the way a more mature Jaylen Brown did this year, adjusting his game and growing as a player. He would be looking at a better contract and none of the fan hate he faces now.

I don’t hate him personally - I hope he figures it out. But I do hate the way he played the game this year.

He absolutely sacrificed something this season.  Just because he handled it poorly doesn't mean a sacrifice wasn't made.  People keep referring to Jaylen's professionalism.  I think we need to be cognizant of the fact that Jaylen falls in the minority when it comes to professionalism in the NBA.  It's a unique trait for an NBA player his age.   

As for Rozier not earning a starting spot, the Celtics are 33-16 with him as a starter (playoffs included) during the past two seasons.  Just to be clear, I am not pro-Rozier and I'm not suggesting that he's solely responsible for their record.  I only reference his record as a starter because it gives him the ammunition, whether correct or not, to believe that he unfairly sacrificed minutes for a teammate whose mood swings brought the team down.



   

[Sophomore]

The Rozier hate is not misguided. He was awful this season and it seems like a big part of him being so bad came from a selfish desire to play more.

No one is blaming him for the season going the way it went. But he certainly contributed to it.

The same kind of baseless opinion “seems like it came from a selfish desire to play more”.  You can’t know that.  It is at best a guess based on what, nothing that I am aware of.  Please explain instead of throwing around baseless guesses.

That is not a baseless opinion. What did he say in the interview? That he sacrificed more than anybody. I take him at his word - that’s how he saw it - which means he had an inflated understanding of his abilities and what his role should’ve been on the team.

You don’t talk about how much you  “sacrificed” when you haven't earned the starting role! The job fell to him due to injury last year, and at his best he was a bottom ten NBA starter last year. You say his problem was “only” inefficient shooting. He was about six points below league average for in true shooting, which put him about 120th out of 160 guards who played 15 minutes or more. That is, let us say, not earning you the starting job on a playoff team unless your other skills are exceptional. But he is not, by anyone’s estimation, a creative passer or game manager (Smart is light years better), and  I lost count of the number of times he let someone go right by him to the rim. His early shot-clock threes, without ever passing the ball, his aimless drives into hopeless floaters, stood out even on a team that fell because of bad chemistry and too much hero ball.

Net, he didn't “sacrifice” anything. He got roughly what he’d earned, and maybe a little more  - which by the way was a lot! He had a significant role on a playoff team that had playoff aspirations. Look at what George Hill was able to do for Milwaukee that series - that's an important role, if you're able to fill it. Or, imagine if Rozier had simply handled himself the way a more mature Jaylen Brown did this year, adjusting his game and growing as a player. He would be looking at a better contract and none of the fan hate he faces now.

I don’t hate him personally - I hope he figures it out. But I do hate the way he played the game this year.

He absolutely sacrificed something this season.  Just because he handled it poorly doesn't mean a sacrifice wasn't made.  People keep referring to Jaylen's professionalism.  I think we need to be cognizant of the fact that Jaylen falls in the minority when it comes to professionalism in the NBA.  It's a unique trait for an NBA player his age.   

As for Rozier not earning a starting spot, the Celtics are 33-16 with him as a starter (playoffs included) during the past two seasons.  Just to be clear, I am not pro-Rozier and I'm not suggesting that he's solely responsible for their record.  I only reference his record as a starter because it gives him the ammunition, whether correct or not, to believe that he unfairly sacrificed minutes for a teammate whose mood swings brought the team down.

If he holds that opinion, I think (1) it matters whether the opinion is correct; and (2) whether he’s right or not, it does reveal his viewpoint and why it isn’t “baseless” to say Rozier thought he was entitled to more minutes.

His play as a reserve was, I think everyone agrees, poor. The argument being made for him is - if only they’d given him the starting job he would have played much better. I don’t see that. Possibly, I might believe that if they fed his ego by letting him start he might have got out of the way of the better players instead of pressing so hard, and as a result the team could have been better off.

[feckless]

The Rozier hate is not misguided. He was awful this season and it seems like a big part of him being so bad came from a selfish desire to play more.

No one is blaming him for the season going the way it went. But he certainly contributed to it.

The same kind of baseless opinion “seems like it came from a selfish desire to play more”.  You can’t know that.  It is at best a guess based on what, nothing that I am aware of.  Please explain instead of throwing around baseless guesses.

That is not a baseless opinion. What did he say in the interview? That he sacrificed more than anybody. I take him at his word - that’s how he saw it - which means he had an inflated understanding of his abilities and what his role should’ve been on the team.

You don’t talk about how much you  “sacrificed” when you haven't earned the starting role! The job fell to him due to injury last year, and at his best he was a bottom ten NBA starter last year. You say his problem was “only” inefficient shooting. He was about six points below league average for in true shooting, which put him about 120th out of 160 guards who played 15 minutes or more. That is, let us say, not earning you the starting job on a playoff team unless your other skills are exceptional. But he is not, by anyone’s estimation, a creative passer or game manager (Smart is light years better), and  I lost count of the number of times he let someone go right by him to the rim. His early shot-clock threes, without ever passing the ball, his aimless drives into hopeless floaters, stood out even on a team that fell because of bad chemistry and too much hero ball.

Net, he didn't “sacrifice” anything. He got roughly what he’d earned, and maybe a little more  - which by the way was a lot! He had a significant role on a playoff team that had playoff aspirations. Look at what George Hill was able to do for Milwaukee that series - that's an important role, if you're able to fill it. Or, imagine if Rozier had simply handled himself the way a more mature Jaylen Brown did this year, adjusting his game and growing as a player. He would be looking at a better contract and none of the fan hate he faces now.

I don’t hate him personally - I hope he figures it out. But I do hate the way he played the game this year.

He absolutely sacrificed something this season.  Just because he handled it poorly doesn't mean a sacrifice wasn't made.  People keep referring to Jaylen's professionalism.  I think we need to be cognizant of the fact that Jaylen falls in the minority when it comes to professionalism in the NBA.  It's a unique trait for an NBA player his age.   

As for Rozier not earning a starting spot, the Celtics are 33-16 with him as a starter (playoffs included) during the past two seasons.  Just to be clear, I am not pro-Rozier and I'm not suggesting that he's solely responsible for their record.  I only reference his record as a starter because it gives him the ammunition, whether correct or not, to believe that he unfairly sacrificed minutes for a teammate whose mood swings brought the team down.

If he holds that opinion, I think (1) it matters whether the opinion is correct; and (2) whether he’s right or not, it does reveal his viewpoint and why it isn’t “baseless” to say Rozier thought he was entitled to more minutes.

His play as a reserve was, I think everyone agrees, poor. The argument being made for him is - if only they’d given him the starting job he would have played much better. I don’t see that. Possibly, I might believe that if they fed his ego by letting him start he might have got out of the way of the better players instead of pressing so hard, and as a result the team could have been better off.

To be clear Rozier had a bad year and was generally not good as a 2nd unit player, he never pulled out of this last shooting slump.  What I have been disagreeing with is that he sulked and had a bad attitude.  What  I saw was effort, his aggressiveness on rebounds is like no other small guard that I can remember.  He also showed a desire to follow Brad's game plan.  But he never found a consistency, a rhythm in this role.  Until his comments about sacrificing most he did not complain and even that was tempered if you read the full comment about what was going on in the locker room.

Rozier acknowledges his rough season.  But I have always seen that he tries to please, he tries to follow the coaches plan and he plays with effort.  I have always thought that when Kyrie is not available Brad starts Terry over Smart because Rozier is more coachable, not the better player but the one who will follow the coaches plan.  Marcus often will take on his own heroic ideas both will try to be heroes too often.

Terry played poorly but in my opinion it was not due to attitude or lack of effort.  And I have seen no indication that Rozier was the basis for problems in the lockeroom.   The amount of blame that is falling on the backup point guard is unjustified.