The Rozier hate is misguided

[Never Nervous Pervis]

I know it was a frustrating season, and the last 4 games were particularly infuriating, but I just don't get all the hate for Terry.

I watched 80% of the regular season games and all of the playoffs, and I just never a guy who was selfish or playing for his next contract. And I never viewed him as a cancer, or saw him fighting with teammates. In fact, he was always smiling. He wore that Celtics uniform with pride, he always spoke highly of Danny, Brad and Kyrie when interviewed, and he always had his guys backs. Dude went after Embiid and Cousins when they tried to punk him, and I really respect his toughness.

Sure, his shot selection at times is questionable, but if you've followed his whole career, that's who Terry is: a scoring combo guard who often has the ball in his hands when the shot clock is running out. Just like some guys are defensive role players, or spot-up shooters, Terry's role was a spark plug, a guy who came off the bench and changed the tempo of the game. He created shots when the offense broke down, he chucked the ball 3/4s of the length of the court at the end of quarters, he played full-court press all game, and he took open shots when the ball was swung his way.

Unfortunately, he's a career 38% shooter, and at times that was maddening. I get it. I don't like point guards dribbling the ball down and just pulling up for a long jumper without getting teammates some touches first, and Terry did that a few times a game.  But that's the NBA today (and Brad obviously encouraged it). You see guys like Dame or Steph or Kyrie doing it and you're like, noooooo, that's an awful shot. Then when they make it you just shake your head and go, okay. Nice shot.

But, as everyone knows, when Terry got starter minutes he shot much better. He also played more under control and showed signs of being a decent facilitator last spring, even before the playoffs started. That magic wasn't sustained this year, and there's a lot of blame to go around. But focusing on Terry (or Kyrie for that matter) seems misguided.

I don't think what he said last night was so awful. He's a competitor and everyone was angry after the game and he let off some steam. He's been getting killed on social media all year, and he's right: he did sacrifice a lot this season, perhaps more than anyone else.

If you look at Rozier's 4 years in Boston, he was a good teammate, a hard worker, and he hit some big shots in the playoffs (not just last season, either). I wish him well, and hope he finds a situation where he can shine.

[mr. dee]

There's alot of blame to go around.

You have Tatum, Rozier and Kyrie looking for their own shots.

Brad Stevens who failed to establish roles on the team and crush their egos.

Danny Ainge for not the addressing the roster fits and waited too long only to implode.

[SparzWizard]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.

[liam]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.
[/quote

I agree. Not a good, smart player...

[ozgod]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.

Tell us how you really feel 

[rondofan1255]

His 2014-2015 Louisville team played ugly selfish basketball throughout the regular season.

Horrible chemistry, players didn’t get along. Their coach, players, coach’s son all commented about it.

He was one of the players allegedly just looking to get his. He got his numbers and showed his potential, but...

[gouki88]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.

100% this. One of, if not my least favourite individual Celtic seasons ever. Good riddance

[SparzWizard]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

He will forever be hated in my eyes.

Tell us how you really feel 

See: "Washburn" thread, page 2 post #6. I was very vehement on Rozier's comment. THAT is how I really feel 

[Never Nervous Pervis]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

Usually you have to support facts with actual evidence but okay.

A backup point guard who averages 9 ppg, 3 assists and 4 rebounds in just 22 minutes, while shooting 35% from three and 78% from the line, and who played 79 out of 82 games, isn't garbage. Throw in a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and those aren't garbage stats. As I said in my original post, the only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %, which is a valid criticism.

And feel free to cite even one incident to justify your attack on his ego. I'll wait.

[gouki88]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

Usually you have to support facts with actual evidence but okay.

A backup point guard who averages 9 ppg, 3 assists and 4 rebounds in just 22 minutes, while shooting 35% from three and 78% from the line, and who played 79 out of 82 games, isn't garbage. Throw in a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and those aren't garbage stats. As I said in my original post, the only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %, which is a valid criticism.

And feel free to cite even one incident to justify your attack on his ego. I'll wait.

Dude, what? "The only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %" - are you serious??

To say he is a below average passer would be incredibly generous. He is a terrible passer who oftentimes doesn't even look to pass.

He is also a terrrrrrible team defender. Constantly caught out of position either hunting rebounds or defensive stats. This has led to a number of bail-out threes for the other team. You need only look back to the Pat Connaughton buzzer-beater the other day.

And finally, there's his efficiency. You bring up his other percentages as if they're redeeming. They're not. His True Shooting % is ghastly. In fact, his TS% would've been below league average in 2000, let alone now, where it's about 5 points below the league average. That is terrible. His percentages inside the arc are also truly abysmal. 30% for 3-10 feet, 37% for 10-16 feet and 28% for 16 feet-3 point line.

If you're a back-up point guard who can't score efficiently, can't make plays for others and can't play consistently good defence, but rather hangs your hat on your useless ability to steal rebounds from other players, then you're doing something wrong.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

Usually you have to support facts with actual evidence but okay.

A backup point guard who averages 9 ppg, 3 assists and 4 rebounds in just 22 minutes, while shooting 35% from three and 78% from the line, and who played 79 out of 82 games, isn't garbage. Throw in a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and those aren't garbage stats. As I said in my original post, the only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %, which is a valid criticism.

And feel free to cite even one incident to justify your attack on his ego. I'll wait.

Dude, what? "The only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %" - are you serious??

To say he is a below average passer would be incredibly generous. He is a terrible passer who oftentimes doesn't even look to pass.

He is also a terrrrrrible team defender. Constantly caught out of position either hunting rebounds or defensive stats. This has led to a number of bail-out threes for the other team. You need only look back to the Pat Connaughton buzzer-beater the other day.

And finally, there's his efficiency. You bring up his other percentages as if they're redeeming. They're not. His True Shooting % is ghastly. In fact, his TS% would've been below league average in 2000, let alone now, where it's about 5 points below the league average. That is terrible. His percentages inside the arc are also truly abysmal. 30% for 3-10 feet, 37% for 10-16 feet and 28% for 16 feet-3 point line.

If you're a back-up point guard who can't score efficiently, can't make plays for others and can't play consistently good defence, but rather hangs your hat on your useless ability to steal rebounds from other players, then you're doing something wrong.

He's not an efficient shooter, you're right, which goes back to my point about his low shooting %. But as I mentioned, part of that is because he's often forced to go one on one when the offense breaks down late in the shot clock or at the end of quarters, and he's one of only a few guys who can really create off the dribble. When he plays starter minutes, those numbers are far different.

As to the other hyperbole, he's not a terrible  team defender, everyone, even Smart or Horford, gets beat backdoor, misreads a switch or is late helping out, especially this year's team. Every Giannis dunk was because the collective team defense was a step slow coming over.

The notion that he steals rebounds from teammates or hangs his hat on 4 rebounds a game is absurd.

[gouki88]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

Usually you have to support facts with actual evidence but okay.

A backup point guard who averages 9 ppg, 3 assists and 4 rebounds in just 22 minutes, while shooting 35% from three and 78% from the line, and who played 79 out of 82 games, isn't garbage. Throw in a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and those aren't garbage stats. As I said in my original post, the only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %, which is a valid criticism.

And feel free to cite even one incident to justify your attack on his ego. I'll wait.

Dude, what? "The only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %" - are you serious??

To say he is a below average passer would be incredibly generous. He is a terrible passer who oftentimes doesn't even look to pass.

He is also a terrrrrrible team defender. Constantly caught out of position either hunting rebounds or defensive stats. This has led to a number of bail-out threes for the other team. You need only look back to the Pat Connaughton buzzer-beater the other day.

And finally, there's his efficiency. You bring up his other percentages as if they're redeeming. They're not. His True Shooting % is ghastly. In fact, his TS% would've been below league average in 2000, let alone now, where it's about 5 points below the league average. That is terrible. His percentages inside the arc are also truly abysmal. 30% for 3-10 feet, 37% for 10-16 feet and 28% for 16 feet-3 point line.

If you're a back-up point guard who can't score efficiently, can't make plays for others and can't play consistently good defence, but rather hangs your hat on your useless ability to steal rebounds from other players, then you're doing something wrong.

He's not an efficient shooter, you're right, which I should have been clearer about when I talked about his poor shooting %. That's my bad. But, as I mentioned, part of that is because he's often forced to go one on one when the offense breaks down late in the shot clock or at the end of quarters, and he's one of only a few guys who can really create off the dribble. When he plays starter minutes, those numbers are far different.

As to the other hyperbole, he's not a terrible  team defender, everyone, even Smart or Horford, gets beat backdoor, misreads a switch or is late helping out, especially this year's team. Every Giannis dunk was because the collective team defense was a step slow coming over.

The notion that he steals rebounds from teammates or hangs his hat on 4 rebounds a game is absurd.

Do you seriously not think that the offence routinely breaking down when he's running the point has nothing to do with him? He misreads the defence almost every play, and is only passable when someone else (usually Kyrie, Gordon or Smart) runs the offence. When he starts those numbers are quite different, but his efficiency remains poor. And when he plays 20-29 minutes per game his efficiency was still very below average. No matter how you represent it he obviously didn't buy into his bench role.

Yeah, that does happen to them. It happens to Rozier frequently. Hence the negative Net Rating.

How is it absurd when it occurs nightly? He is routinely out of position grabbing rebounds in the key, and oftentimes when the other team gets the offensive rebound his man is wide open. I don't know how that's absurd when it's observably true.

[gpap]

My dislike for Rozier is not misguided but merely based on my observations of him.

I question his decision making on the court and he's a very streaky shooter.

Also, how many times this year did he accidentally step out of bounds?

If he wants to be a fan, just tell Brad you're injured and buy a ticket.

At times, he's very good at getting to the basket and is very athletic but beyond that I just find him to be a player with limited ability.

Sadly if Kyrie leaves, then Ainge re-signing him to be the starting PG could be a possible scenario. One which wouldn't make me (among others) very happy.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

Usually you have to support facts with actual evidence but okay.

A backup point guard who averages 9 ppg, 3 assists and 4 rebounds in just 22 minutes, while shooting 35% from three and 78% from the line, and who played 79 out of 82 games, isn't garbage. Throw in a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and those aren't garbage stats. As I said in my original post, the only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %, which is a valid criticism.

And feel free to cite even one incident to justify your attack on his ego. I'll wait.

Dude, what? "The only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %" - are you serious??

To say he is a below average passer would be incredibly generous. He is a terrible passer who oftentimes doesn't even look to pass.

He is also a terrrrrrible team defender. Constantly caught out of position either hunting rebounds or defensive stats. This has led to a number of bail-out threes for the other team. You need only look back to the Pat Connaughton buzzer-beater the other day.

And finally, there's his efficiency. You bring up his other percentages as if they're redeeming. They're not. His True Shooting % is ghastly. In fact, his TS% would've been below league average in 2000, let alone now, where it's about 5 points below the league average. That is terrible. His percentages inside the arc are also truly abysmal. 30% for 3-10 feet, 37% for 10-16 feet and 28% for 16 feet-3 point line.

If you're a back-up point guard who can't score efficiently, can't make plays for others and can't play consistently good defence, but rather hangs your hat on your useless ability to steal rebounds from other players, then you're doing something wrong.

He's not an efficient shooter, you're right, which I should have been clearer about when I talked about his poor shooting %. That's my bad. But, as I mentioned, part of that is because he's often forced to go one on one when the offense breaks down late in the shot clock or at the end of quarters, and he's one of only a few guys who can really create off the dribble. When he plays starter minutes, those numbers are far different.

As to the other hyperbole, he's not a terrible  team defender, everyone, even Smart or Horford, gets beat backdoor, misreads a switch or is late helping out, especially this year's team. Every Giannis dunk was because the collective team defense was a step slow coming over.

The notion that he steals rebounds from teammates or hangs his hat on 4 rebounds a game is absurd.

Do you seriously not think that the offence routinely breaking down when he's running the point has nothing to do with him? He misreads the defence almost every play, and is only passable when someone else (usually Kyrie, Gordon or Smart) runs the offence. When he starts those numbers are quite different, but his efficiency remains poor. And when he plays 20-29 minutes per game his efficiency was still very below average. No matter how you represent it he obviously didn't buy into his bench role.

Yeah, that does happen to them. It happens to Rozier frequently. Hence the negative Net Rating.

How is it absurd when it occurs nightly? He is routinely out of position grabbing rebounds in the key, and oftentimes when the other team gets the offensive rebound his man is wide open. I don't know how that's absurd when it's observably true.

No, I think the offense often broke down because they had no post presence except for Horford (and he's not dominant inside), and for much of the game the team stood around watching Kyrie (or Tatum/Brown/Hayward in smaller doses) try to expose a mismatch and go 1 on 1. Or they ran a pick and pop and the defense trapped Kyrie and the ball swung around to Rozier at the top of the key with 4-5 seconds left on the shot clock. Or everyone stood around the 3-point line rather than cutting. Or because Marcus Morris decided to hold onto the ball rather than keep the ball moving from side to side.

As far as defensive rebounding goes, when a shot goes up, 5 guys are supposed to block out and then crash the boards. Those are the fundamentals. And when there's a long rebound and the offense gets it back, there are often multiple guys open around the 3-point line. Why? Because you're supposed to go get the rebound, not continue to guard your man.

Watch any Warriors game and you'll see that KD or Steph or Klay sometimes get 2-3 three pointers per possession. That's a byproduct of shooting lots of 3s and getting long rebounds.

The fact that you're blaming Rozier (or anyone for that matter) for not continuing to stay with his man after the ball hits the rim confirms the irrational bias going on here.

[gouki88]

It's not misguided. It's a fact. He is pure garbage. His stats is pure garbage. His ego is pure garbage.

Usually you have to support facts with actual evidence but okay.

A backup point guard who averages 9 ppg, 3 assists and 4 rebounds in just 22 minutes, while shooting 35% from three and 78% from the line, and who played 79 out of 82 games, isn't garbage. Throw in a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and those aren't garbage stats. As I said in my original post, the only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %, which is a valid criticism.

And feel free to cite even one incident to justify your attack on his ego. I'll wait.

Dude, what? "The only legitimate knock on his game is his shooting %" - are you serious??

To say he is a below average passer would be incredibly generous. He is a terrible passer who oftentimes doesn't even look to pass.

He is also a terrrrrrible team defender. Constantly caught out of position either hunting rebounds or defensive stats. This has led to a number of bail-out threes for the other team. You need only look back to the Pat Connaughton buzzer-beater the other day.

And finally, there's his efficiency. You bring up his other percentages as if they're redeeming. They're not. His True Shooting % is ghastly. In fact, his TS% would've been below league average in 2000, let alone now, where it's about 5 points below the league average. That is terrible. His percentages inside the arc are also truly abysmal. 30% for 3-10 feet, 37% for 10-16 feet and 28% for 16 feet-3 point line.

If you're a back-up point guard who can't score efficiently, can't make plays for others and can't play consistently good defence, but rather hangs your hat on your useless ability to steal rebounds from other players, then you're doing something wrong.

He's not an efficient shooter, you're right, which I should have been clearer about when I talked about his poor shooting %. That's my bad. But, as I mentioned, part of that is because he's often forced to go one on one when the offense breaks down late in the shot clock or at the end of quarters, and he's one of only a few guys who can really create off the dribble. When he plays starter minutes, those numbers are far different.

As to the other hyperbole, he's not a terrible  team defender, everyone, even Smart or Horford, gets beat backdoor, misreads a switch or is late helping out, especially this year's team. Every Giannis dunk was because the collective team defense was a step slow coming over.

The notion that he steals rebounds from teammates or hangs his hat on 4 rebounds a game is absurd.

Do you seriously not think that the offence routinely breaking down when he's running the point has nothing to do with him? He misreads the defence almost every play, and is only passable when someone else (usually Kyrie, Gordon or Smart) runs the offence. When he starts those numbers are quite different, but his efficiency remains poor. And when he plays 20-29 minutes per game his efficiency was still very below average. No matter how you represent it he obviously didn't buy into his bench role.

Yeah, that does happen to them. It happens to Rozier frequently. Hence the negative Net Rating.

How is it absurd when it occurs nightly? He is routinely out of position grabbing rebounds in the key, and oftentimes when the other team gets the offensive rebound his man is wide open. I don't know how that's absurd when it's observably true.

No, I think the offense often broke down because they had no post presence except for Horford (and he's not dominant inside), and for much of the game the team stood around watching Kyrie (or Tatum/Brown/Hayward in smaller doses) try to expose a mismatch and go 1 on 1. Or they ran a pick and pop and the defense trapped Kyrie and the ball swung around to Rozier at the top of the key with 4-5 seconds left on the shot clock. Or everyone stood around the 3-point line rather than cutting. Or because Marcus Morris decided to hold onto the ball rather than keep the ball moving from side to side.

As far as defensive rebounding goes, when a shot goes up, 5 guys are supposed to block out and then crash the boards. Those are the fundamentals. And when there's a long rebound and the offense gets it back, there are often multiple guys open around the 3-point line. Why? Because you're supposed to go get the rebound, not continue to guard your man.

Watch any Warriors game and you'll see that KD or Steph or Klay sometimes get 2-3 three pointers per possession. That's a byproduct of shooting lots of 3s and getting long rebounds.

The fact that you're blaming Rozier (or anyone for that matter) for not continuing to stay with his man after the ball hits the rim confirms the irrational bias going on here.

Lol, alright man. I can't be bothered with this debate. You continue to defend the indefensible while me and many of my fellow fans have a party when Rozier signs elsewhere