Ongoing NFL draft chat

[Rondo2287]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

[Cman]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

Interesting thought.  I think there is some evidence for your comments on BB.  See this article by Reiss:

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4694939/belichick-talks-draft-with-sirius-radio

Belichick said teams can gather information right up until draft day, but he stressed that the “most important thing that a player has is his 3 or 4 years of production and performance. That carries a lot of weight and that’s already in the books. That plays the biggest role in where the player’s actual value [ends up].”

But I also think BB puts a lot of weight on players who have worked with certain coaches (particularly those at Alabama and Florida ).

[Donoghus]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him. 

[Rondo2287]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him. 

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

[Donoghus]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him. 

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics. 

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games. 

[Rondo2287]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him. 

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics. 

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games. 

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine. 

You don't see a correlation???

[Donoghus]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him.  

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics.  

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games.  

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine.  

You don't see a correlation???

Bowers has or had been projected as the first overall pick in some mock drafts.  Show me a respected mock draft from last year that had Spikes in the Top 15 or even Top 20.  Bowers could be poised to take an Aaron Rodgers-esque type drop.  Spikes didn't approach that.  He was taken pretty close to where people had him all along.

So are you trying to say that Bowers will turn out like Spikes hence your comparison? 'Cause I'm not seeing it and I'm not sure how you chose to make that particular comparison when they play different positions.


EDIT: Bowers has generated a significantly more amount of hype for the draft than Spikes ever did.

[Rondo2287]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him.  

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics.  

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games.  

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine.  

You don't see a correlation???

Bowers has or had been projected as the first overall pick in some mock drafts.  Show me a respected mock draft from last year that had Spikes in the Top 15 or even Top 20.  Bowers could be poised to take an Aaron Rodgers-esque type drop.  Spikes didn't approach that.  He was taken pretty close to where people had him all along.

So are you trying to say that Bowers will turn out like Spikes hence your comparison? 'Cause I'm not seeing it and I'm not sure how you chose to make that particular comparison when they play different positions.


EDIT: Bowers has generated a significantly more amount of hype for the draft than Spikes ever did.

Summary: Brandon Spikes is the prototypical 3-4 inside linebacker, but at this point I am not sold on him being the top-20 2010 NFL Draft pick most are hyping him as. He has a few technique flaws that really concern me, but he might improve those next season.

Walter football, "most people hyping him as a top 20 pick"   

[Donoghus]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him.  

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics.  

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games.  

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine.  

You don't see a correlation???

Bowers has or had been projected as the first overall pick in some mock drafts.  Show me a respected mock draft from last year that had Spikes in the Top 15 or even Top 20.  Bowers could be poised to take an Aaron Rodgers-esque type drop.  Spikes didn't approach that.  He was taken pretty close to where people had him all along.

So are you trying to say that Bowers will turn out like Spikes hence your comparison? 'Cause I'm not seeing it and I'm not sure how you chose to make that particular comparison when they play different positions.


EDIT: Bowers has generated a significantly more amount of hype for the draft than Spikes ever did.

Summary: Brandon Spikes is the prototypical 3-4 inside linebacker, but at this point I am not sold on him being the top-20 2010 NFL Draft pick most are hyping him as. He has a few technique flaws that really concern me, but he might improve those next season.

Walter football, "most people hyping him as a top 20 pick"   

And who exactly were most people besides the hearsay?

[Rondo2287]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him.  

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics.  

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games.  

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine.  

You don't see a correlation???

Bowers has or had been projected as the first overall pick in some mock drafts.  Show me a respected mock draft from last year that had Spikes in the Top 15 or even Top 20.  Bowers could be poised to take an Aaron Rodgers-esque type drop.  Spikes didn't approach that.  He was taken pretty close to where people had him all along.

So are you trying to say that Bowers will turn out like Spikes hence your comparison? 'Cause I'm not seeing it and I'm not sure how you chose to make that particular comparison when they play different positions.


EDIT: Bowers has generated a significantly more amount of hype for the draft than Spikes ever did.

Summary: Brandon Spikes is the prototypical 3-4 inside linebacker, but at this point I am not sold on him being the top-20 2010 NFL Draft pick most are hyping him as. He has a few technique flaws that really concern me, but he might improve those next season.

Walter football, "most people hyping him as a top 20 pick"   

And who exactly were most people besides the hearsay?

Unfortunately i cannot access any of the older version of the mock drafts that prior to his senior season had him as a top 20 pick because they have all moved on.  But I can guarentee you he had a drop from top 20 to third round.

And why you don't believe Walterfootball who backs up exactly what i say is beyong me.  I think its pretty safe to assume im right on this one

[Eja117]

This is something I've been saying for a while.   

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6355471

Spread QBs do just fine in the NFL as long as you don't give them 5 different coordinators in 6 years like they did with Alex Smith

[Eja117]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him.  

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics.  

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games.  

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine.  

You don't see a correlation???

Bowers has or had been projected as the first overall pick in some mock drafts.  Show me a respected mock draft from last year that had Spikes in the Top 15 or even Top 20.  Bowers could be poised to take an Aaron Rodgers-esque type drop.  Spikes didn't approach that.  He was taken pretty close to where people had him all along.

So are you trying to say that Bowers will turn out like Spikes hence your comparison? 'Cause I'm not seeing it and I'm not sure how you chose to make that particular comparison when they play different positions.


EDIT: Bowers has generated a significantly more amount of hype for the draft than Spikes ever did.

Summary: Brandon Spikes is the prototypical 3-4 inside linebacker, but at this point I am not sold on him being the top-20 2010 NFL Draft pick most are hyping him as. He has a few technique flaws that really concern me, but he might improve those next season.

Walter football, "most people hyping him as a top 20 pick"  

And who exactly were most people besides the hearsay?

Unfortunately i cannot access any of the older version of the mock drafts that prior to his senior season had him as a top 20 pick because they have all moved on.  But I can guarentee you he had a drop from top 20 to third round.

And why you don't believe Walterfootball who backs up exactly what i say is beyong me.  I think its pretty safe to assume im right on this one

I guess I can settle this.  My memory of this was similar to Rondo's, but my initial research on line was not supporting that.  No way on Earth I admit I'm wrong that easy so I went to the basement and got my Lindy's Sports draft mag from that year and my Sporting News draft mag from last year too.  

results

I'm pretty sure both mags came out I think in late Feb or early March.

Sporting News had Spikes going #15 to NY Giants

Two other Sporting News writers Clifton Brown and Matt Hayes made first round mocks

Hayes had Spikes going 14 to Seattle

Brown had him nowhere in the 1rst. It may be notable that Brown had a horrid mock with Bradford going 4th, Arelious Benn going 21, and Gerald McCoy going #1.

The magazine itself rated him the #23 prospect. They put Donald Butler of Washington ahead of him and Rolando McClain a spot behind.

Lindy's had him 4th in the 2nd round to Kansas City. They rated him the 40th prospect overall and gave him a 1rst round grade, also ranking him 2nd best ILB behind McClain.

I'm guessing over time he slipped a bit so by draft day very few had him in the top 20.


And there we have it. You were both right and you were both wrong

[Rondo2287]

Thanks for the backup, I knew alot of people had him as a top 20 pick earlier on in the mock draft season

[Chris]

If Bowers falls as far as walterfootball says he would (24) I wouldnt be surprised to see BB take him at 18.  I think BB believes in results in college alot more than measurables as the combine.

I think Bowers has "El Busto" written all over him.  

People were saying the same thing about Brandon Spikes after he fell from a first to a projected 3rd rounder

My understanding was that Spikes' fall was due more to character concerns as well as less than stellar scouting metrics.  

Also, Spikes was an ILB while Bowers is a DE/OLB.  Different positions so I really don't see much of a correlation.  Bowers & Spikes have much different games.  

Both were considered to be high first rounders and then had huge drops. Both had incredible production at their positions despite less than great measurables at the combine.  

You don't see a correlation???

Bowers has or had been projected as the first overall pick in some mock drafts.  Show me a respected mock draft from last year that had Spikes in the Top 15 or even Top 20.  Bowers could be poised to take an Aaron Rodgers-esque type drop.  Spikes didn't approach that.  He was taken pretty close to where people had him all along.

So are you trying to say that Bowers will turn out like Spikes hence your comparison? 'Cause I'm not seeing it and I'm not sure how you chose to make that particular comparison when they play different positions.


EDIT: Bowers has generated a significantly more amount of hype for the draft than Spikes ever did.

Summary: Brandon Spikes is the prototypical 3-4 inside linebacker, but at this point I am not sold on him being the top-20 2010 NFL Draft pick most are hyping him as. He has a few technique flaws that really concern me, but he might improve those next season.

Walter football, "most people hyping him as a top 20 pick"  

And who exactly were most people besides the hearsay?

Unfortunately i cannot access any of the older version of the mock drafts that prior to his senior season had him as a top 20 pick because they have all moved on.  But I can guarentee you he had a drop from top 20 to third round.

And why you don't believe Walterfootball who backs up exactly what i say is beyong me.  I think its pretty safe to assume im right on this one

I guess I can settle this.  My memory of this was similar to Rondo's, but my initial research on line was not supporting that.  No way on Earth I admit I'm wrong that easy so I went to the basement and got my Lindy's Sports draft mag from that year and my Sporting News draft mag from last year too.  

results

I'm pretty sure both mags came out I think in late Feb or early March.

Sporting News had Spikes going #15 to NY Giants

Two other Sporting News writers Clifton Brown and Matt Hayes made first round mocks

Hayes had Spikes going 14 to Seattle

Brown had him nowhere in the 1rst. It may be notable that Brown had a horrid mock with Bradford going 4th, Arelious Benn going 21, and Gerald McCoy going #1.

The magazine itself rated him the #23 prospect. They put Donald Butler of Washington ahead of him and Rolando McClain a spot behind.

Lindy's had him 4th in the 2nd round to Kansas City. They rated him the 40th prospect overall and gave him a 1rst round grade, also ranking him 2nd best ILB behind McClain.

I'm guessing over time he slipped a bit so by draft day very few had him in the top 20.


And there we have it. You were both right and you were both wrong

Do you know if these mocks were before the combine?  Because I think that was the turning point for him.  He put up really slow numbers there, which killed his stock (despite the fact he was a monster on the field).

[Cman]

I guess I can settle this.  My memory of this was similar to Rondo's, but my initial research on line was not supporting that.  No way on Earth I admit I'm wrong that easy so I went to the basement and got my Lindy's Sports draft mag from that year and my Sporting News draft mag from last year too.  

results

I'm pretty sure both mags came out I think in late Feb or early March.

Sporting News had Spikes going #15 to NY Giants

Two other Sporting News writers Clifton Brown and Matt Hayes made first round mocks

Hayes had Spikes going 14 to Seattle

Brown had him nowhere in the 1rst. It may be notable that Brown had a horrid mock with Bradford going 4th, Arelious Benn going 21, and Gerald McCoy going #1.

The magazine itself rated him the #23 prospect. They put Donald Butler of Washington ahead of him and Rolando McClain a spot behind.

Lindy's had him 4th in the 2nd round to Kansas City. They rated him the 40th prospect overall and gave him a 1rst round grade, also ranking him 2nd best ILB behind McClain.

I'm guessing over time he slipped a bit so by draft day very few had him in the top 20.


And there we have it. You were both right and you were both wrong

TP for all the good research.

I'd be curious about your take on the updated (as of 4/21) "big boards" at walterfootball: http://walterfootball.com/draft2011teamboards_1.php

New results have Pats selecting Anthony Castonzo at #17 (Cameron Jordan is off the board in this update, and the Pats pass on JJ Watt bc of his agent Condon) and Ingram at #28.