Author Topic: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans  (Read 11030 times)

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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2016, 07:44:24 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2016, 08:15:40 PM »

Offline bostonsportsforlife

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Celts fans have cheered like heck for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett.  We've got multiple generations of Celts fans for whom the biggest faces of the team were not white.

That said, there is definitely something to the idea that white athletes get worshipped in Boston whereas athletes of color are merely loved.  Larry Bird and Tom Brady are saints in Boston.  Part of that is championships.  Part of it is that they are white.

I don't really blame people for that, though.  New England is overwhelmingly white, and you can't blame people for getting more excited about watching stars with whom they can identify more easily, especially in basketball, a sport that has been dominated by black players since the 60s.

I guess my point is, I think the attitudes of fans about race has evolved and will continue to evolve over time, but there will always be an element of getting more excited about players on the team -- especially stars -- with whom the typical fan can more easily identify, especially if there aren't a lot of players like that around the league.  Most people, I think, will always have an easier time identifying with people who look more like themselves.  That's just human nature.

Personally, I'd be lying if I told you that the degree to which I have really loved watching and cheering for Dirk and Steve Nash had nothing to do with their race.
You say Bird and Brady are sports legends here but Pierce and Ortiz are non-white and revered to nearly the same degree. I'm pretty sure almost nobody likes Bird and Brady for their race, rather the fact that they are two of the greatest players of all time in their respective sports. Other non-white sports icons in Boston include Pedro, pretty much every Patriots star of the 2000s besides Brady, KG, etc. Boston has a bad past with sports racism, but I'd say there's very little left of it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 08:20:48 PM by bostonsportsforlife »

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2016, 08:34:28 PM »

Offline BornReady

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brady and bird are on a completely different level compared to pierce
pierce was a multiple all star
but brady and bird are multiple champions and mvp level players

if we had a black player like that wed be revering him the same
garnett was close but we didnt have him in his prime


Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2016, 04:22:36 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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if we had a black player like that wed be revering him the same
garnett was close but we didnt have him in his prime

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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2016, 06:19:00 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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Are there any other Celtic fans out there who ever think about how it might be better for the team that its best player is a person of color and not a white guy?

For instance, when there was a chance the C's could get Kevin Love, I was for it but there was a part of me that didn't like the idea of the face of the franchise being a white guy given the history of race in Boston and the accusations of racism the team faced in the past.

I'm personally well aware of the Celtics history of commitment to both winning and diversity. The first NBA team to draft a Black player. The first NBA team to field an all-Black starting 5. The first professional sports team in the country to have a Black head coach. And certainly teams of this century have been as diverse as any. But not everyone knows all this.

I'm also aware of the type of harrassment Bill Russell and others endured during their time in Boston. And even though the league became a lot less White in the following years, Boston still built teams around Havlicek and Cowens, and then Bird and McHale which fanned flames of people who thought the Celtics were a racist organization. I don't believe it is. If I thought that, I wouldn't root for the team. But given that history, I do feel a little uneasy at the prospect of building the team around, say, Dragan Bender or bringing in Love as our #1.

Would I take either guy on the team, assuming they can play? Glady. Turning down talent because of my weird feelings about race would be silly and defeat the purpose of the "whatever wins" attitude the team has always taken. But those feelings still exist and I was curious if other Celtic fans ever thought about it.

For whatever its worth I am White.

no kidding

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2016, 08:30:08 AM »

Offline DavorCroatiaFan

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Wow...I'm from Croatia and really don't care about race or religion. My idol was Larry Bird, not because we was white, but because he played the game the right way. Few years ago i was posting here just for fun all-time Celtics greatest black team and all-time Celtics greatest white team. Mods told me its an inappropriate post and i apologized although I did not mean anything by it. And now this post... I just don't get it, sorry
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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2016, 09:20:22 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Are there any other Celtic fans out there who ever think about how it might be better for the team that its best player is a person of color and not a white guy?
So you're saying Kelly Olynyk is not our best player?
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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 09:26:36 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There's a history of some racism in Boston sports, both organizationally (Yawkey) and by fans (Bill Russell).  However, I really do think it's changed, to the point where fans don't care what race a player is. 

Who are the two most popular players in recent Boston history?  #1 is Tom Brady, I would assume.  A close second is probably David Ortiz, though, right? 

I haven't seen anything from the fan base to suggest that they don't embrace black players.  KG was treated like a hero who saved the Celtics.  Pedro was similarly a Boston icon.  Pats fans loved Randy Moss despite his off-field indiscretions. 

I don't think it's better or worse for the team to draft or sign a great black player as opposed to a great white player.  Give me the next Larry Bird or the next Lebron; I'll happily embrace either.


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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 09:33:08 AM »

Offline celts55

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I don't think your question is weird. It's like when a good white player comes into the league, he's going to be the next Larry Bird. Why can't he be the next KG or Jordan?
KO is the next Dirk. I don't believe I've ever heard of a black player being the next Larry.
Not sure it applies to this, but I find it interesting.

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2016, 08:40:42 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Who are the two most popular players in recent Boston history?  #1 is Tom Brady, I would assume.  A close second is probably David Ortiz, though, right? 
Good call. Ortiz couldn't be more beloved in Boston (and rightfully so).

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Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2016, 08:55:11 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I don't think the fanbase of the Celtics is one that would care about the skin color of its stars. Sure, there are lots of stories about Boston and race, but New England is still far more progressive than most of the country. Perhaps the whiteness of the Celtics in the 80s is partly to blame for people thinking that skin color matters to Celtics fans. Ironic considering the Celtics were the vanguard for inclusion in the NBA.

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2016, 09:37:39 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Are there any other Celtic fans out there who ever think about how it might be better for the team that its best player is a person of color and not a white guy?

For instance, when there was a chance the C's could get Kevin Love, I was for it but there was a part of me that didn't like the idea of the face of the franchise being a white guy given the history of race in Boston and the accusations of racism the team faced in the past.

I'm personally well aware of the Celtics history of commitment to both winning and diversity. The first NBA team to draft a Black player. The first NBA team to field an all-Black starting 5. The first professional sports team in the country to have a Black head coach. And certainly teams of this century have been as diverse as any. But not everyone knows all this.

I'm also aware of the type of harrassment Bill Russell and others endured during their time in Boston. And even though the league became a lot less White in the following years, Boston still built teams around Havlicek and Cowens, and then Bird and McHale which fanned flames of people who thought the Celtics were a racist organization. I don't believe it is. If I thought that, I wouldn't root for the team. But given that history, I do feel a little uneasy at the prospect of building the team around, say, Dragan Bender or bringing in Love as our #1.

Would I take either guy on the team, assuming they can play? Glady. Turning down talent because of my weird feelings about race would be silly and defeat the purpose of the "whatever wins" attitude the team has always taken. But those feelings still exist and I was curious if other Celtic fans ever thought about it.

For whatever its worth I am White.

At the end of the day, it wouldn't matter what color our best player was, IF he could/can PLAY. I'd expect that to be the determining factor around the league as well - based off of what potential FA's would be looking for.

I'd also hope that ANY potential FA would look up at those rafters and choose to WANT to be a part of something SPECIAL, a Tradition.

Your question is honest, though - especially in society nowadays. That is not a bad thing. But it's realistic.

As I grew into my teen years, my love for the Celtics started to show me how RACE plays into society. Most of my peers in high school chided me (in a friendly fashion) with comments about the Celtics.

"Man, why do you like Boston?" Of course some (seemingly MOST) of them loved the Lakers and Magic.

I would then ask myself "Am I supposed to like Magic because he's Black?" I couldn't STAND him in my teen years, because he gave BOS fits, lol.....not because of his race.

That HOOK SHOT in 1987 still gives me headaches.



As I got older I learned more and more about Race and the Celtics. I'm still learning to this day, as far as the history.

Looking back, I appreciate Magic/Bird's rivalry even more, and will miss it.

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2016, 10:40:53 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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In a strict hypothetical, do you really think if Paul was white people would root for him harder than they did as he was?

Note, this isn't to say I disagree with what you are saying, but I am curious.

I think the average casual white fan would, yeah.  I also don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I'd disagree.  I don't know any C's fans personally that care what a player's skin color is as long as they play hard every night.  As others have said, many fans nowadays weren't around when the best player happened to be white (Bird). 

As for the examples of Bird and Brady being loved and no black athlete being loved, as someone else pointed out, you can't get much more loved in NE than Big Papi.

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2016, 10:54:09 PM »

Offline JSD

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OP is 17-23 years old. I'd bet money on it.
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: Weird Question About Race and Celtic Fans
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2016, 11:44:28 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Are there any other Celtic fans out there who ever think about how it might be better for the team that its best player is a person of color and not a white guy?

For instance, when there was a chance the C's could get Kevin Love, I was for it but there was a part of me that didn't like the idea of the face of the franchise being a white guy given the history of race in Boston and the accusations of racism the team faced in the past.

I'm personally well aware of the Celtics history of commitment to both winning and diversity. The first NBA team to draft a Black player. The first NBA team to field an all-Black starting 5. The first professional sports team in the country to have a Black head coach. And certainly teams of this century have been as diverse as any. But not everyone knows all this.

I'm also aware of the type of harrassment Bill Russell and others endured during their time in Boston. And even though the league became a lot less White in the following years, Boston still built teams around Havlicek and Cowens, and then Bird and McHale which fanned flames of people who thought the Celtics were a racist organization. I don't believe it is. If I thought that, I wouldn't root for the team. But given that history, I do feel a little uneasy at the prospect of building the team around, say, Dragan Bender or bringing in Love as our #1.

Would I take either guy on the team, assuming they can play? Glady. Turning down talent because of my weird feelings about race would be silly and defeat the purpose of the "whatever wins" attitude the team has always taken. But those feelings still exist and I was curious if other Celtic fans ever thought about it.

For whatever its worth I am White.

Let's cover some Celtics' history on race, shall we?  The Boston Celtics were the first team in the NBA to ever draft a black NBA player and they were the FIRST to have an all black starting lineup!!!

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Celtics-071219

Please stop with this NONSENSE!!!!

Thanks,

Smitty77