Criticism of Kyrie

[Green-18]

I think it’s fair to criticize his defense, and sometimes for not moving the ball.

Questionable shot selection comes with being an elite scorer, though. I want Kyrie to be an alpha with the confidence to take shots 5 feet beyond the 3PT line if he’s feeling it.  I like the killer instinct.

Now, if we were down by 1 and Kyrie took a bad shot on the last play of the game, that’s ripe for criticism. But here, even if he missed, there was plenty of room to recover.

I completely agree.  The 2nd three from way beyond the arc seems questionable at face value, but we really haven't seen him take a shot like that very often  He was in a zone and let if fly with confidence.  I trust that he wouldn't take the same shot on a night where it didn't feel right, and/or the rest of the team was scoring more consistently in the 4th.  At the end of the day he needs to trust his instincts as an elite scorer.   

[Moranis]

This is who he is.  He also let Wall score 34 and dish out 13 assists.  That is also who he is. 

As I've been saying for years, Irving is a very good to great player, but he isn't a #1 guy (though he could be a #1 scoring option like he was in Cleveland).  He isn't going to be the best player on a champion (except perhaps some weird fluke thing like Detroit) and certainly isn't going to be the best player on a legit multiple year contender.  it just isn't who he is.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Can someone post the stats of how well John Wall did when Irving was playing him last night? I can't ever find those on NBA.com. 

[Donoghus]

Sometimes you just need that guy to step up and play hero ball on a given night & Kyrie is one of the better ones in the league at it. 

It might not be asethetically pleasing but its sometimes necessary.  That's the game of basketball.

[Vermont Green]

I feel that overall, Kyrie has been good about not always trying to be the hero throughout the season.  He definitely decided he needed to win this one.  I am not worried that suddenly Kyrie is ball hog.  At the end of close games though, sometimes that is what is needed to win.  Hopefully we don't end up relying on that too much. 

[RJ87]

Like, what was the percentage that both of those shots actually go in?

100%. They both went in.

[fairweatherfan]

I understand the concept of not wanting to rely on hero ball. I also think last nights game isn't the one to highlight this. The Celtics were missing 3/6 of our best scorers. Hayward, Horford and Brown all missed this game for some reason. When Kyrie looks off a healthy teammate who is feeling it, then we may have a problem.

Yeah I don't want him doing this all the time, but last night who do we want taking those shots instead?  Tatum?  I'm a lot less comfortable with him improvising with the ball late.  Morris? Not a bad option but again you probably don't want him trying to create something in iso either. That's pretty much it with last night's group.  And ball movement in the clutch gets tougher when you have that few weapons.  All in all if he's feeling it with a depleted bunch around him, go for it.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Can someone post the stats of how well John Wall did when Irving was playing him last night? I can't ever find those on NBA.com.

NVM. Found it.

In 28 possession with Irving against Wall, Wall had 11 points on 4-7 shooting, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers.

Hardly "getting torched."

On the other hand, in 43 possessions that Irving had against Wall, Irving had 21 points on 7-16 shooting with 2 assists and 3 turnovers.

[Surferdad]

I find it humorous that right now, there are threads right next to each other on "Latest Discussions" that praise and criticize the man. 

[nickagneta]

I don't get the criticism against Kyrie last night when just two years ago, IT did the same thing on the regular and was cannonized as a Celtic great for it. Kyrie scored the last 12 points of the game for the Celtics. That's huge and should be celebrated, not criticized. And a few other things.

- the second to last three was at the end of the shot clock and against very good defense that had contained him. I don't see the difference between that and Mook's shot to end the 3rd earlier.

- it was drawn up for Kyrie to go coast to coast on the last play of regulation. It's why Boston took the ball out under their basket because the play was for a coast to coast run at the basket that would kill all the clock

- Wall blew by everyone last night, not just Kyrie. He made the blog's new hero look simply silly 4 times when they forced a switch off Wanamaker or Rozier onto the center and put Williams on an island. Wall did the same thing to others beside Kyrie, there was a video package in the post game showing all the people he burnt. And honestly, when Wall is on he blows by everyone in the league. The man is the faster dribble penetrator in the NBA. Oh, and Kyrie forced a key offensive foul on Wall late in regulation.

- let-s not forget Kyrie with some extremely good pass down's on his penetration for easy baskets. That one to Tatum for the slam late was an amazing pass. Recovering from an errant poor dribble drive and still being aware of Williams sitting underneath was pretty great too.

[jbpats]

I don't get the criticism against Kyrie last night when just two years ago, IT did the same thing on the regular and was cannonized as a Celtic great for it. Kyrie scored the last 12 points of the game for the Celtics. That's huge and should be celebrated, not criticized. And a few other things.

- the second to last three was at the end of the shot clock and against very good defense that had contained him. I don't see the difference between that and Mook's shot to end the 3rd earlier.

- it was drawn up for Kyrie to go coast to coast on the last play of regulation. It's why Boston took the ball out under their basket because the play was for a coast to coast run at the basket that would kill all the clock

- Wall blew by everyone last night, not just Kyrie. He made the blog's new hero look simply silly 4 times when they forced a switch off Wanamaker or Rozier onto the center and put Williams on an island. Wall did the same thing to others beside Kyrie, there was a video package in the post game showing all the people he burnt. And honestly, when Wall is on he blows by everyone in the league. The man is the faster dribble penetrator in the NBA. Oh, and Kyrie forced a key offensive foul on Wall late in regulation.

- let-s not forget Kyrie with some extremely good pass down's on his penetration for easy baskets. That one to Tatum for the slam late was an amazing pass. Recovering from an errant poor dribble drive and still being aware of Williams sitting underneath was pretty great too.

Two years ago IT was our only option, that is FAR from the case this season with Kyrie and our need for him to 'take over'

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I find it humorous that right now, there are threads right next to each other on "Latest Discussions" that praise and criticize the man. 

That may have been intentional on my part. I might rebump my "in praise of Kyrie Irving" thread with updated stats and info every time I see unreasonable (in my mind) criticism.

[Walker Wiggle]

I agree that Kyrie is occasionally prone to hero ball, but I don't think either of those final three-pointers qualify.

For the first one, he got the ball back with time running down on the shot clock and had to make something out of nothing with Wall draped all over him. Got off the best shot he could in that circumstance.

The second one (the deep three) is more of a stretch, but I don't think that's that low a percentage shot for him. It's deep, but it's a clear look with Wall several feet away with his hands down.  If you consider that a 33% shot for Kyrie, which is a 50% eFG shot, that's not bad in end-of-game, tense situations. When you consider how short-handed the team was yesterday and the fact that Kyrie had it going, then I can live with it.

Earlier in the year when the Celtics were struggling offensively in the beginning or middle of games, I saw him try and shoot the team out of their funk single-handedly. That, I think, was a problem, because it wasn't sustainable. But that's different from what we witnessed in OT last night.

[droopdog7]

Can someone post the stats of how well John Wall did when Irving was playing him last night? I can't ever find those on NBA.com.

NVM. Found it.

In 28 possession with Irving against Wall, Wall had 11 points on 4-7 shooting, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers.

Hardly "getting torched."

On the other hand, in 43 possessions that Irving had against Wall, Irving had 21 points on 7-16 shooting with 2 assists and 3 turnovers.

Yeah, there were a lot of switches.  Wall was torching Williams and Morris’s a lot.  And kyrie was on Beal a lot.

[nickagneta]

I agree that Kyrie is occasionally prone to hero ball, but I don't think either of those final three-pointers qualify.

For the first one, he got the ball back with time running down on the shot clock and had to make something out of nothing with Wall draped all over him. Got off the best shot he could in that circumstance.

The second one (the deep three) is more of a stretch, but I don't think that's that low a percentage shot for him. It's deep, but it's a clear look with Wall several feet away with his hands down.  If you consider that a 33% shot for Kyrie, which is a 50% eFG shot, that's not bad in end-of-game, tense situations. When you consider how short-handed the team was yesterday and the fact that Kyrie had it going, then I can live with it.

Earlier in the year when the Celtics were struggling offensively in the beginning or middle of games, I saw him try and shoot the team out of their funk single-handedly. That, I think, was a problem, because it wasn't sustainable. But that's different from what we witnessed in OT last night.

TP WW.