Prediction: We contend next season...for worst record

[ScoobyDoo]

Depending on what other moves are made, I think we could be better than people are currently projecting us to be.

If no trades to unload Bass, Humphries, Lee and Wallace are made -

Point Guard:
Rondo: (stud - assuming he comes back healthy)
Bradley: (spot minutes as a back up - solid)
Pressey: I do think he will make the team - no question.

Off guard: Bradley, Lee, Brooks (that is not bad)

Small Forward: Green & Wallace (pretty [dang] good

Power Forward: Sully, Humphries, Bass & Olynyk
Very interested to see what Rondo can do with Humphries
* But that's a pretty decent crew of Power forwards

Center: Pretty weak but "might" be serviceable
Faveroni / Melo / Iverson

It will be very interesting to see if Ainge intends to dump (if he can) Wallace, Humphries, Bass & Lee. This would mark a full commitment to the "young kids" and more of a semi-tank, full development mode.

If he tries to move Humphries expiring for a real legit two guard I think it says he's trying to compete again right away.

because as someone mentioned, maybe in another post, if Eric Gordon (not that I'm a "huge" fan of Gordon) but someone in his level, an argument could be made that a lineup of Rondo, Gordon and Green could be quite formidable.   

[syfy9]

Better than the Hawks man to man? At the very most I'd say were pretty even. But their frontcourt blows ours out of the water. Do you really think Sully and KO can bang with Milsao and Horford down low?

I am a huge Al Horford and Paul Millsap fan.  But neither of those guys "bang down low."  They are both jump shooters.

Completely disagree. Chris Bosh is a jump shooter. Horford and Millsap are physical players - Millsap is known to be that, and Horford might be finesse, but he's heavy and isn't afraid to fight down low.

[syfy9]

1. Harris already signed with Dallas.
2. Pachulia signed with Milwaukee.
3. Teague also has signed an offer sheet with Milwaukee.
4. When did Al Horford become a dominant center?

1. My bad
2. Pachulia will be missed, but Mike Scott was playing really well before - his offense might > Pachulia's defense.
3. And the Hawks can match this offer if they so desire. There is also talk that they might do a S&T w/ Teague for Jennings. If not, Monta Ellis or Nate Robinson are decent options. There is a lot of flexibility here because they lost out on the Howard signing.
4. Well, he averaged 17 and 10 last season at a 54% clip. He's one of the most coveted centers around.

Mike Scott?  Nate Robinson?  17 and 10 is nice but not exactly dominant.  Man-to-man the Celtics roster is much better than the Hawks roster.

Mike Scott is a baller. per 36 minutes, he averaged 17.5 ppg and 10.5 rpg. His minutes were spotty, but when he started for a stretch, he impressed me. Not saying he's going to be an all-star, but a suitable replacement for Pachulia.

Nate Robinson, I'm sure I don't have to argue to you about.

[syfy9]

Is there a specific name for overvaluing players on other teams while undervaluing young players on your own team?  Or do we just stick with ignorance?

It's called perception.

Overvaluing your own unproven players on your own team, on the other hand, is called being a homer.


My basis is that those teams are going to theoretically do well - the free agent signings and potential breakout seasons are the major factors.

  If all those teams do as well as you expect it's perception. If not...

Obviously not all will be playoff teams. But last season and the seasons before that, these teams didn't acquire a major free agent for the most part. They were gaining assets. Now that they've accumulated enough promising young talent, they're looking to push forward.

They have an edge now. Break out seasons are going to happen.

The Eastern Conference is going to be fun to watch near the end of the season, when each game means something and could make or break your season. I'm excited.

[syfy9]

if the bobcats can get monta ellis, that would do wonders for our tanking prospects.

I think the Bobcats are going the positive direction with the Big Al signing. My guess is that they push for the playoffs either way.

I'd rather he go to either a potential tanking team (like Dallas, Minnesota, Portland, and Utah) to encourage them not to tank or an already bad team (Sacramento, Phoenix, Orlando) that is looking to tank. Any team that is still garnering assets.

What's with your perception of big al making the bobcats legit? It's astonishing frankly...big al is a career loser who's never helped a team make the playoffs, and I'm pretty sure he's content with it especially after getting a new contract, yawn. A career loser signing with the biggest joke of a franchise equals playoffs I guess...

I think Big Al is a top 2 most skilled NBA player down in the post. His array of moves are effective and he could literally dominate like McHale once did. The thing is, he takes far too many jump shots.

You can say that he isn't much of a winner, and I can't really argue with you on that. But he's skilled beyond belief, scoring in the low post. The one thing the Bobcats desperately need is scoring in the low post.

Then you have Kemba, MKG, and maybe even Zeller as candidates to erupt next season. Kemba and MKG are career winners, so maybe they could forcibly change the culture.

They are looking pretty legit when it comes to playoff birthing. Al Jefferson will drastically improve them. I'd put them in playoff hopefuls, but wouldn't argue if someone put them under playoff longshots. But they are most certainly not playoff dreamers.

Al Jefferson is not a star player. He is a terrible defensive player, and a slightly above average offensive one (his shooting percentages are really low for someone who supposedly has this great post game).

We have about 10 seasons worth of evidence that Al Jefferson is not a star. What makes you think he is going to change now?

He improves Charlotte only in the sense that he isn't abjectly terrible like the rest of their roster. He improves them from 10-20 wins to 25-30 wins, at absolute most.

Yeah, like slamtheking said, if Al is worth 10+ wins for the Bobcats, that's a job well done.

I'm factoring in Kemba and MKG having potential breakout seasons as well. If one of them makes the leap, they could steal a spot.

[Yogi]

1. Harris already signed with Dallas.
2. Pachulia signed with Milwaukee.
3. Teague also has signed an offer sheet with Milwaukee.
4. When did Al Horford become a dominant center?

1. My bad
2. Pachulia will be missed, but Mike Scott was playing really well before - his offense might > Pachulia's defense.
3. And the Hawks can match this offer if they so desire. There is also talk that they might do a S&T w/ Teague for Jennings. If not, Monta Ellis or Nate Robinson are decent options. There is a lot of flexibility here because they lost out on the Howard signing.
4. Well, he averaged 17 and 10 last season at a 54% clip. He's one of the most coveted centers around.

Mike Scott?  Nate Robinson?  17 and 10 is nice but not exactly dominant.  Man-to-man the Celtics roster is much better than the Hawks roster.

Mike Scott is a baller. per 36 minutes, he averaged 17.5 ppg and 10.5 rpg. His minutes were spotty, but when he started for a stretch, he impressed me. Not saying he's going to be an all-star, but a suitable replacement for Pachulia.

Nate Robinson, I'm sure I don't have to argue to you about.

So your argument is a guy that played 10 min a game, and the back-up to the back-up point guard of the Bulls makes the Hawks better than the Celtics.  OK then.

Paul Milsap is generously listed at 6'8 and Al Horford is generously listed at 6'10.  Sullinger is 6'9 and Olynyk is 7'0.  Milsap shot less than 50 percent from the field.  They are more experienced than the Celtics front court, but they're hardly going to dominate anything on the inside.   

[celts55]

Depending on what other moves are made, I think we could be better than people are currently projecting us to be.

If no trades to unload Bass, Humphries, Lee and Wallace are made -

Point Guard:
Rondo: (stud - assuming he comes back healthy)
Bradley: (spot minutes as a back up - solid)
Pressey: I do think he will make the team - no question.

Off guard: Bradley, Lee, Brooks (that is not bad)

Small Forward: Green & Wallace (pretty [dang] good

Power Forward: Sully, Humphries, Bass & Olynyk
Very interested to see what Rondo can do with Humphries
* But that's a pretty decent crew of Power forwards

Center: Pretty weak but "might" be serviceable
Faveroni / Melo / Iverson

It will be very interesting to see if Ainge intends to dump (if he can) Wallace, Humphries, Bass & Lee. This would mark a full commitment to the "young kids" and more of a semi-tank, full development mode.

If he tries to move Humphries expiring for a real legit two guard I think it says he's trying to compete again right away.

because as someone mentioned, maybe in another post, if Eric Gordon (not that I'm a "huge" fan of Gordon) but someone in his level, an argument could be made that a lineup of Rondo, Gordon and Green could be quite formidable.

Sorry, but I must disagree. First, Even if he's healthy, Rondo's numbers looked great because he had guys to pass to. He will be lacking that on this team, he lacks an outside shot, and his defense depends on his mood.
Bradley- Good defender. Inconsistant shooter and did not look very good at point in playoff. Decent 2 off the bench.
Pressey- undrafted rookie who might make team. Wouldn't count on much from him.
Lee- very inconsistant last year to the point of not playing. Could have better year, but not someone to count on.
Brooks- Streak scorer.
Green- Like his game, but let's see what happens when other teams consentrate on him, as they are lacking another scorer. Not a very good rebounder.
Wallace. Plays hard, way over paid. I'm sure they will dump him if possible. Off year last year.
Sully, comming of back surgery. If health could help, but that's based on 1/2 a season.
Bass- undersized 4 who shots jumpers and doesn't rebound.
Hump- who knows??
Olynyk- scored well in summer league against guys who will not be in the NBA next season.

I won't even start with the centers you listed.

Listen, I've been a Celtics fan back since the Bird days, and watche them though the years they sucked also. I trully hope they play as hard as they can every night and I will continue to watch and support them, but I think you are deluting yourself if you think this is a a pretty good team. I think they could very well end up in the bottom 3.

[Smokeeye123]

We still have Rondo, Sully, Green and AB.... and KO
i see us fighting for 8th and 9th seed at the playoffs

As Kuberski33 said earlier - where's the interior defense?

Also keep in mind that we won't have Rondo for a while either.

Look at the team with Rondo out. Stinky! Little to no offensive creators. I think that Rondo can make the most out of our current roster, though. We'll score well, but our defense is going to be sub-par in the interior. The new bigs in the Eastern Conference (along with Hibbert, Lebron, Lopez, and KG ) will tear us apart. I'm glad we have Colton Iverson, but if he's our best hope as defensive post stopper, then we are in for trouble. Have you seen the Celtics last season with KG out of the game? It's going to be a party down in the paint.

With Rondo, scoring won't be so bad. Our team is complimentary to him. But can you answer this question:


Who is going to score for us in crunch time?

If you ask this question next year, I would be ecstatic to say Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker.

Ainge has already said that Rondo is expected to be ready for the start of the season.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I don't really mind as long as WE ARE TRYING TO WIN. (sorry had to emphasize that phrase)

We are rebuilding, our goal is to wet the young guys' feet as much as we can and get them comfortable in an NBA game and develop them. As long as the team is playing hard and really competing, i don't mind losing some games as our roster is not that great to begin with.

We are winning though in the sense that we are developing players, raising trade value for veteran and building good chemistry within the team.

[syfy9]

So your argument is a guy that played 10 min a game, and the back-up to the back-up point guard of the Bulls makes the Hawks better than the Celtics.  OK then.

Paul Milsap is generously listed at 6'8 and Al Horford is generously listed at 6'10.  Sullinger is 6'9 and Olynyk is 7'0.  Milsap shot less than 50 percent from the field.  They are more experienced than the Celtics front court, but they're hardly going to dominate anything on the inside.   

I'm arguing that Mike Scott will fill the void that Pachulia will be leaving. I'm not saying he's the difference maker. I'm saying that the Hawks are not going to miss Pachulia, with Scott flying everywhere for boards.

Nate Robinson was the back-up for the first third of the season and then asserted himself to the starting role. Derrick Rose never came back, remember? Besides, Nate can ball. Try re-watching game 4 against Brooklyn and tell me that all you see is a back-up point guard. I'm not saying that he could start for any team, but I am saying that he could start and perform well for the Hawks.


Oh no, you pointed out that Millsap is undersized and that Horford is 6'10! Dang...I forgot, you have to be tall to bang down low. Size, strength, and gurth don't matter at all, right? Also the fact that they both have 7+ feet wingspans (Olynyk has a 6'10)? Not to mention that they are way more skilled than any of our front court players? But all well, the rookie and the 2nd year player have more inches combined, so it's not going to be that bad, against seasoned pros, right?


Neither Sully nor Olynyk are defensive stoppers in the post, in pick n roll, and in pick n pop. Millsap and Horford excel in all three of those. Sully is physical, I love that about him, but he's not near Paul and Al's ability. Horford and Millsap are probably around Sully's ceiling.

[syfy9]

We still have Rondo, Sully, Green and AB.... and KO
i see us fighting for 8th and 9th seed at the playoffs

As Kuberski33 said earlier - where's the interior defense?

Also keep in mind that we won't have Rondo for a while either.

Look at the team with Rondo out. Stinky! Little to no offensive creators. I think that Rondo can make the most out of our current roster, though. We'll score well, but our defense is going to be sub-par in the interior. The new bigs in the Eastern Conference (along with Hibbert, Lebron, Lopez, and KG ) will tear us apart. I'm glad we have Colton Iverson, but if he's our best hope as defensive post stopper, then we are in for trouble. Have you seen the Celtics last season with KG out of the game? It's going to be a party down in the paint.

With Rondo, scoring won't be so bad. Our team is complimentary to him. But can you answer this question:


Who is going to score for us in crunch time?

If you ask this question next year, I would be ecstatic to say Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker.

Ainge has already said that Rondo is expected to be ready for the start of the season.

Oh really? Sweet! 

Our offense is going to be more fun to watch. Hopefully we won't get any other injury bugs in the season.

Either way, even with Rondo, I don't think our interior defense will be enough to stop anybody. We were barely faring with KG, relying on him greatly. Now that he's gone - who do we turn to in order to scare the quick guards out of the paint?

[Yogi]

So your argument is a guy that played 10 min a game, and the back-up to the back-up point guard of the Bulls makes the Hawks better than the Celtics.  OK then.

Paul Milsap is generously listed at 6'8 and Al Horford is generously listed at 6'10.  Sullinger is 6'9 and Olynyk is 7'0.  Milsap shot less than 50 percent from the field.  They are more experienced than the Celtics front court, but they're hardly going to dominate anything on the inside.   

I'm arguing that Mike Scott will fill the void that Pachulia will be leaving. I'm not saying he's the difference maker. I'm saying that the Hawks are not going to miss Pachulia, with Scott flying everywhere for boards.

Nate Robinson was the back-up for the first third of the season and then asserted himself to the starting role. Derrick Rose never came back, remember? Besides, Nate can ball. Try re-watching game 4 against Brooklyn and tell me that all you see is a back-up point guard. I'm not saying that he could start for any team, but I am saying that he could start and perform well for the Hawks.


Oh no, you pointed out that Millsap is undersized and that Horford is 6'10! Dang...I forgot, you have to be tall to bang down low. Size, strength, and gurth don't matter at all, right? Also the fact that they both have 7+ feet wingspans (Olynyk has a 6'10)? Not to mention that they are way more skilled than any of our front court players? But all well, the rookie and the 2nd year player have more inches combined, so it's not going to be that bad, against seasoned pros, right?


Neither Sully nor Olynyk are defensive stoppers in the post, in pick n roll, and in pick n pop. Millsap and Horford excel in all three of those. Sully is physical, I love that about him, but he's not near Paul and Al's ability. Horford and Millsap are probably around Sully's ceiling.

1.  You can speculate all you want about Mike Scott, but it is ridiculous to claim that Mike Scott will make a big jump in his second year and Sullinger won't.

2.  Nate Robinson is a solid bench player, but what is he going to do against Rondo?

3.  Sullinger and Olynyk have a higher standing reach than Millsap and Horford also.

4.  The Hawks have 0 depth.  Lee, Wallace, Bass are all young, athletic and experienced veterans coming off the bench for the Celtics. 

5.  I'll take Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger and Olynyk over Nate Robinson?, Lou Williams, Kyle Korver, Paul Millsap and Al Horford any day. 

[Q_FBE]

The Celtics will have STIFF competition for race to the bottom. They might not have to with all the draft picks they have coming and the ability to clear cap space through trades.

[ScoobyDoo]

Celts55:

Yeah, me too, I've been watching them since the Bird days. And like you I'll continue to support them and watch every game, win or lose, good or bad. I actually enjoy watching the young guys develop.

Maybe the current goal is:
1. Unload all the vet contracts: Humphries, Bass, Lee and Wallace - if possible...

2. Play the young kids this year - get a blue chip lottery pick and then  add a max player with cap space the year after next...

I do tend to be on the optimistic, green glasses side so your comments are fair for sure.

I think we'll know a lot about which direction the team is heading - full on youth mnovement or quick rebuild - in the next month or two, based on Ainge's moves...

[kgainez]

I think Im with Yogi on this one

Where do you guys GET this?
Especially if we shrink our lineups to 8-9 people...how are we not competitive?

Rondo/
AB/Lee
Crash/Jeff
Jeff/Sully
KO/Kris (or some other Center)

That's COMPETITIVE
may not be a Contender, but with some really STAR play we can make it to the 2nd round.