Hanging from the rafters / What would Ray & KG have to do to get their numbers retired? (merged)

[Toine43]

There's almost no way I see Ray's number being retired. Only if he somehow stays healthy and effective for four or five more seasons, and we win 2 or 3 more titles. You can thank the guy and honor him in some other way for bringing the trophy back to Boston, but you can't just throw his number up in the rafters because his name is Ray Allen.

[zerophase]

Quick question; Has any player ever had his number retired twice by two seperate teams before?

I'm not sure at all but the only player I can think of who may have got this would be Wilt...

Wilt's number has been retired by three teams (Lakers, 76ers, Warriors)

Michael Jordan's number was retired by the Bulls and Heat(!!)

Pete Maravich's number was retired by the Utah Jazz and New Orleans Hornets (despite never having played for the Hornets).

Moses Malone's number was retired by the Rockets, and "taken out of circulation" by the 76ers

Other double-retirees:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Bucks, Lakers)
Charles Barkley (76ers, Suns) 
Clyde Drexler (Blazers, Rockets)   
Julius Erving (Nets, 76ers) 
Bob Lanier (Bucks, Pistons)
Oscar Robertson (Bucks, Kings/Royals) 
Nate Thurmond (Warriors, Cavs)

mj by the heat? when was this?

There's almost no way I see Ray's number being retired. Only if he somehow stays healthy and effective for four or five more seasons, and we win 2 or 3 more titles. You can thank the guy and honor him in some other way for bringing the trophy back to Boston, but you can't just throw his number up in the rafters because his name is Ray Allen.

well the thing is, if they retire kg and pierce, they'll probably retire allen too. however this also depends on when their careers end. allen could pull a reggie and play for another 6 years, while garnett pulls a mutumbo and plays until his 42.

[Roy Hobbs]

mj by the heat? when was this?

During MJ's last season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/2003/04/11/wizards_magic_ap/

[Moneyshot]

I think the Celtics retire too many numbers. You don't see the Red Soxc, Yankees, or Lakers retire so many numbers. I'm all for honoring players, but maybe with a night and/or their name up in the rafters. Since Garnett's 21 is already retired by the C's, if he leads us to another championship or 2, maybe we could put a KG up there or something. But is it the worse thing in the world not to have your number or name up there? I think a minimum requirement for having your number retired is a HOF career, while playing your career predominantly for the Celtics.

I agree with this statement. I think the best thing to do is what other teams, like the Suns, do which is have a "ring of honor." They hang up the jerseys of the players in the rafters instead of retiring the numbers for good.  I think this makes more sense. The Celtics could do this and only retire the numbers of the "Super Duper Stars", which to me would be Walter Brown, Auerbach, Cousy, Russell, and Bird (and possibly Havilcek and Cowens). This way you can honor people and still have most of the numbers available. 

Someone earlier mentioned that Ainge could possibly get his number retired now. Ainge would completely disagree with this. He stated a few years ago that the Celtics had too many numbers retired and that players like to wear their favorite numbers so the Celtics shouldn't limit the players choices.

[zerophase]

mj by the heat? when was this?

During MJ's last season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/2003/04/11/wizards_magic_ap/

see, i just find that ridiculous for a franchise. its understandable if say the bulls retired it as well as the wizards, but when a franchise retires a player's number that never even played for them, that completely rids themselves of franchise pride. its also a sign that they themselves have no players worthy enough to be retired. i think it was a terrible degradative action.

[Triboy16]

Ainge for example should not be considered to be up there just cuz as a gm he helped us win.

Ainge was also a starter on the 1984 and 1986 title teams.  He played in four NBA Finals with us.

so?? if eddie house signs for the next two years and we win it all do we place him in the rafters too?? How about tony allen ??

They could be amazing who knows but ainge just like tehse two players are role players. IF what you say is true , almost every celtics who was part of those nba finals should be up in the rafters.

Once again its only right that players like bird, pierce, go up and maybe if danny as a gm gets us one or two more we can put him up in the same fashion as red.

[johnnyrondo]

The reason Danny doesn't want to have his number retired is a very valid reason. We can't afford to have any less numbers available. I'm sure Danny would be touched if we honored him some way, but their are other ways to honor someone then putting a number up. Fwiw, I think Red should have his name up there, and not a number.

[bostonsportsfan]

I agree 100% Red Auerbach and Walter Brown did not play for the team Red Was a coach / gm and Walter Brown was their first owner i see no reason what so ever why 1 and 2 are up in the rafters. I believe they should take 1 and 2 down and replace it with their names Red Auerbach and Walter Brown you can put others up their such as Danny Ainge Wyc Johnny Most etc as Key contributors to the greatness of the Boston Celtics. As for Ray Allen i actually say yes to him because think about what he did in this 1 year When you had that big run of players like Shawn Marrion Kevin Garnett, Jermaine Oneal im not sure if their were others but there probably is. Saying they wanted no part in coming to play for the celtics. Ray Allen did not put up any fuss what so ever in coming. What that did was it changed Kgs mind in coiming here which then allowed danny to get James Posey and Eddie House. He also played a huge role in banner #17 but as big as it was that off season was much bigger. I hate to praise players for not acting like jerks but in todays nba with the egos that are in it right now not acting like a fool then checking your ego at the door and agreeing to be #3 star on the team when your accustomed to being the man he deserves more credit then he has got

[BballTim]

Ainge for example should not be considered to be up there just cuz as a gm he helped us win.

Ainge was also a starter on the 1984 and 1986 title teams.  He played in four NBA Finals with us.

so?? if eddie house signs for the next two years and we win it all do we place him in the rafters too?? How about tony allen ??

They could be amazing who knows but ainge just like tehse two players are role players. IF what you say is true , almost every celtics who was part of those nba finals should be up in the rafters.

Once again its only right that players like bird, pierce, go up and maybe if danny as a gm gets us one or two more we can put him up in the same fashion as red.

  Comparing Eddie House and Tony Allen to Danny Ainge is just wrong. It's worse than comparing Kobe to Jordan.

[Roy Hobbs]

Ainge for example should not be considered to be up there just cuz as a gm he helped us win.

Ainge was also a starter on the 1984 and 1986 title teams.  He played in four NBA Finals with us.

so?? if eddie house signs for the next two years and we win it all do we place him in the rafters too?? How about tony allen ??

They could be amazing who knows but ainge just like tehse two players are role players. IF what you say is true , almost every celtics who was part of those nba finals should be up in the rafters.

You obviously never watched Danny play.  If you had, you'd be embarrassed to make that argument.

Also, look up the history of some of the other retired numbers sometime.  A lot of those guys are classic "role players".  The Celtics retire numbers for winning, not for great individual statistics.

[Roy Hobbs]

I agree 100% Red Auerbach and Walter Brown did not play for the team Red Was a coach / gm and Walter Brown was their first owner i see no reason what so ever why 1 and 2 are up in the rafters. I believe they should take 1 and 2 down and replace it with their names Red Auerbach and Walter Brown...

I guarantee you that the #2 never gets unretired.  If Red had thought it was inappropriate, he wouldn't have allowed it to go up in the first place.  He obviously liked the honor, so it should stay.

[Sweet17]

I think KG stands a fair chance. He is a mobile big without much injury issues. He takes excellent care of his body. He could be a very effective player at 40. Look at guys like Kareem, Parish and of course recently PJ Brown. All of them are mobile bigs..

Ray is going to be tougher. I don't think Ainge would hesitate to trade him - so he might not get a long enough shot with us. I think though he could play till he is 36 without much trouble.. That might not be long enough. It's harder on a smaller guy to play as long as a big.

Pete

[DivingCowens]

Guys, it's simple.  If they win another one, or two, (or 3 or 4 or... sorry, getting greedy) they will be up there.  I won't care that Seattle and Minny will do the same.  Retiring numbers is about your contribution to the franchise.  If they were to win another title here, then their accomplishments will have exceeded what they did in either Seattle or Minny.

On Ainge, I still can't believe that he is NOT retired up there.  He deserved it as a player and anyone that calls him a mere "role player" in those champs obviously never really knew that team.  Now that he has put himself up with the great figures in management as well, 44 should.  Bird himself said he was the fiercest competitor on the team.

The important thing is to not get ahead of ourselves.  Paul is now in the rafters... period.  Let's see what happens over the remainder of these other guys careers as C's before we discuss.

[papa shuttlesworth]

I don't understand why most people think Ray has maybe one year left in his career before he disintegrates.  Looking around the league, he is definitely in the top quartile (probably top 10%) in terms of conditioning.

If he were still in Seattle or in a situation where he was "The Man," then maybe the constant pounding while creating shots might wear him down.  But as the 2nd or 3rd option, there is no reason to believe he can't play at a high level until he is 38.  At the very least, he will be a good spot up shooter.

A good comparison might be Michael Finley.  I think Ray is and has been much better than Finley and that his shooting will make him more effective later in his career, but there are good to compare.  Both played lots of games and heavy minutes early in their career and then had some injuries.  Finley is now a role player averaging 10 ppg.

If Ray slowly declines from 17-20 ppg now to 10-15 ppg when he is 38 or 39, like Reggie Miller, would that be enough? (Assuming they are title contenders for much of this time)

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't understand why most people think Ray has maybe one year left in his career before he disintegrates.  Looking around the league, he is definitely in the top quartile (probably top 10%) in terms of conditioning.

I don't think people are doubting Ray's conditioning as much as they are wondering if Danny will use his salary slot to bring in a younger player.  After next season, when Ray is an expiring contract, it's at least worth looking into the option of dealing him (plus other accumulated assets) for a young star.  I think that's why, of all the "big three", he's the one most likely not to retire in a Celtics jersey.