Hanging from the rafters / What would Ray & KG have to do to get their numbers retired? (merged)

[celticfan10]

So now that we know there WILL be a new tapestry hanging from the rafters, I have a couple questions/comments on those that got it there.

1) Before this season and finals performance would Pierce's 34 been hanging up there with the greats?  I see this debated a lot, but I have to think that if Pierce stayed here and continued to put up similar numbers he definately gets there (he could've finished top 10 in nba history in scoring)

Obviously, now there is no doubt that P double will be the last Celtic to don the number thirty-four

2) Number 21 will one day hang in Minnesota, but can number 5 hang in the garden as well?  What more would KG have to do in Celtic green (Defensive POY, First team all-NBA, and winning a championship during year one do a lot in my book)

3) Then of course there's Ray Allen, probably the most unheralded of the 3-party, however can you have the other two without him?  I'm not sure, because he does provide this team with so much (although he may not have as much left in his tank as KG does). 

I know we are all euphoric over this championship team, but I thought a little debate on this would be interesting.  Right now I think KG will have to have at least 2 more years like he did this year, but in my mind that just means he needs to stay healthy.  For Ray Allen I think we may need to win a few mroe titles, but I think those are there for the taking as well.

[Frontierboy]

I honestly think all 3 wil have their numbers retired..... I see 2 more championships in their future so if they are pretty much a lock to get their numbers retired...... You can't mention Pierce's name without mentioning Garnett, or mentioning Ray......

SO in this respect, they have to all be retired

[cordobes]

If they win 2 more championships together, it's highly probable that 5 and 20 will also be retired. Otherwise, they'd have to put some really great stats or individual accolades...

Of course Pierce's number would be retired even if we didn't win. There's a first time to everything.

[Hoops]

As much as I think KG epitomizes what it means to be a Celtic, I don't think #5 can go to the rafters for a couple of short years with the team and and a single championship. But I'm open at this point to be convinced otherwise. However, if he can get another 1 or 2 banners up there, then yeah, #5 should go up in the rafters. Same with #20.

[Roy Hobbs]

If Pierce ended his career as a Celtic, I think his number would have been retired regardless.  Maybe even if he moved on to another team, although that makes it a bit less likely (sans championship).

For KG and/or Ray to make it, I think they need to play here at a high level for a minimum of five seasons.  I can see KG doing that.  Ray, I'm not sure if he'll be here beyond his current contract.

[CDawg834]

In full agreement with Roy Hobbs on this one.  We have to remember that they have only been here for one season.  #5 and #20 won't get retired here unless we get at least 4-5 years of contending and maybe another title. 

I may be mistaken so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but every other retired number (except for Reggie Lewis) is for a player that won multiple championships, and played here for an extended period of time.

As for Pierce, even if he leaves when his contract is up (although I think he may just retire when it does come up), it is a done deal.  #34 will absolutely be retired.  It may have been done anyway, but the title victory removed any debate.

Minnesota could retire KG's because of the length of time spent there and his contribution to that team, but I just don't see it happening here for him or Ray.

[papa shuttlesworth]

Remember that the #5 Garnett wears was available because it was not retired, even though Walton wore it while helping the team win a championship.  I think it will take more than a couple years and one banner.

Despite what everyone says, I hope Ray retires a Celtic and his number goes up there too.

[Roy Hobbs]

I may be mistaken so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but every other retired number (except for Reggie Lewis) is for a player that won multiple championships, and played here for an extended period of time.

The only other one not to win a championship is Ed Macauley, the team's first star player.  He was an all-star all six years he was here (which happened to be the first six All-Star games in NBA history), and was the key component in the trade that brought Bill Russell to Boston.

[CDawg834]

I may be mistaken so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but every other retired number (except for Reggie Lewis) is for a player that won multiple championships, and played here for an extended period of time.

The only other one not to win a championship is Ed Macauley, the team's first star player.  He was an all-star all six years he was here (which happened to be the first six All-Star games in NBA history), and was the key component in the trade that brought Bill Russell to Boston.

TP for the info, Roy.  I am only 24 so he was just a little before my time hehe.  My favorite Celtic was Toine so that should tell you that my C's history doesn't really stretch too far back.

But since Macauley was here for 6 seasons, and his contributions to the early days of this organization as we now know it definitely deserve recognition, so I can see that being up there as well.  Not to say that KG and Ray don't deserve recognition, but with this team, it takes more than 1 year.

[Cerrano]

I may be mistaken so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but every other retired number (except for Reggie Lewis) is for a player that won multiple championships, and played here for an extended period of time.

The only other one not to win a championship is Ed Macauley, the team's first star player.  He was an all-star all six years he was here (which happened to be the first six All-Star games in NBA history), and was the key component in the trade that brought Bill Russell to Boston.

TP for the info, Roy.  I am only 24 so he was just a little before my time hehe.  My favorite Celtic was Toine so that should tell you that my C's history doesn't really stretch too far back.

But since Macauley was here for 6 seasons, and his contributions to the early days of this organization as we now know it definitely deserve recognition, so I can see that being up there as well.  Not to say that KG and Ray don't deserve recognition, but with this team, it takes more than 1 year.

Yeah, Red traded Macauley, Cliff Hagan (whom Red had drafted a couple years earlier and was waiting for) for the 2nd pick.  Then Walter Brown promised the Ice Capades to Rochester for a couple weeks if they passed on Russell.  The Genius of Red.

[Celtic]

Wouldn't surprise me if all three ended up there, I know KG and Ray haven't been here that long, but let's not forget the turnaround that this team experienced as a result of them becoming Celtics. The real question is, do we see #9 up there some day?

[CDawg834]

I also can't wait to see Brian Scalabrine's number get retired! It technically will be in all likelihood...

[LarBrd33]

Pierce will definitely have #34 hanging from the rafters some day.  But I'm curious... what would KG and Ray have to do from this point on to get #20 and #5 up in the rafters as well?  Would it take a threepeat or something?  6+ years of dedicated service leading the team on the level of a contender? 

Just curious what you guys think it would take for either guy.  Obviously they have limited time to really make a mark.  Is it even possible? 

*Edit* -  Whoops.  I didn't see the "hanging from the rafters" thread for some reason.   

[Last Train]

2 more rings should do the trick.

[celticfan10]

Couple of points to be made.

Walton was not do the 80s team what KG is to these team, so that does not really seem debatable in my mind.  

The debate is whether KG and Ray should have their number up there (Pierce is a foregone conclusion).  My thought is how could you have one without the other (that is also based on them each putting in at least five seasons and one more championship).

I wanted to mention Rondo in my original post, if he continues to improve at this rate, but wanted to keep it to the new comers, Rondo could have plenty of years to show his worth.  I think he has an incredibly high ceiling for the type of player he could become...Rondo's improvement I believe could keep the window open longer for PP, KG, and Ray to win more titles.

Roy-need to change the "Doc COULD learn from coach Dale", I think Doc showed us something about coming back in a big game, where everyone picked you to lose and you were the underdog (in Game 4 particularly).