This team reached it's ceiling

[blink]

Your cornerstones are JB/JT/Smart.

The best course of action is to run the best five back and then clean up the glut of young players on the bench with some quality veteran  role players (a shooter and a big not named Kanter).

I know everyone is reactionary right now but this team ain’t that far off.

I am pretty much on board with this.  Smart gives you too much on def and intangibles to let him go at his salary.  He is close to the JB / JT timeline.  I really like Smart when he is driving and distributing. 

I was one of those who thought we should have kept Smart as our point guard and gone after a different center to fill the Horford / Baynes vacuum.  I learned to really admire Kemba as the glue for the team, but I kind of wonder what a
Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Adams lineup would have been like.

I mean Theis progressed well during the season and I like him a lot.  But a vet defensive center would have been really valuable.

I don't think that "Best 5" lineup is ever gonna really work. Too much duplication in skillet. Too small, frankly.


I think the best version of that group is gonna feature two different guys in place of kemba and hayward.

Well I did say I wanted to see the Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Adams lineup.  I don't think that 5 is too small.

[PhoSita]

Your cornerstones are JB/JT/Smart.

The best course of action is to run the best five back and then clean up the glut of young players on the bench with some quality veteran  role players (a shooter and a big not named Kanter).

I know everyone is reactionary right now but this team ain’t that far off.

I am pretty much on board with this.  Smart gives you too much on def and intangibles to let him go at his salary.  He is close to the JB / JT timeline.  I really like Smart when he is driving and distributing. 

I was one of those who thought we should have kept Smart as our point guard and gone after a different center to fill the Horford / Baynes vacuum.  I learned to really admire Kemba as the glue for the team, but I kind of wonder what a
Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Adams lineup would have been like.

I mean Theis progressed well during the season and I like him a lot.  But a vet defensive center would have been really valuable.

I don't think that "Best 5" lineup is ever gonna really work. Too much duplication in skillet. Too small, frankly.


I think the best version of that group is gonna feature two different guys in place of kemba and hayward.

Well I did say I wanted to see the Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Adams lineup.  I don't think that 5 is too small.

yeah I was more responding to what the guy you quoted said about the Best 5 lineup.

I really like Steven Adams a lot.  However, given his lack of shooting I'm not sure he's a player who can be in your championship winning closing lineup in 2021 / beyond.  I think if you have a non-shooting big that guy needs to be able to (a) defend perimeter players as well as inside and (b) handle the ball and pass from the middle of the floor in order to take advantage of sagging defenders.

[knuckleballer]

The idea that a team led by a 22 year old has reached its peak is completely asinine.

[Rikibellevie]

The idea that a team led by a 22 year has reached its peak is completely asinine.

Yes, another crazy post... In a game were indiduallity win champs and where we have a 22 YO leader, who has PO stats where he is in range of LBJ, Kobe, KAJ.... At the same age... Not sure what this post means. When you think that our number 2 is 24 and has already the level of the leader of a team that goes in final (I guess he isn't far from Jimmy level)

They were not mentally ready. CBS was outcoached (but he is also young and maybe hasn't also reached his level). And DA didn't bring roster adjustment, because he didn't believe we were ready. And was probably wrong.

[mr. dee]

The idea that a team led by a 22 year has reached its peak is completely asinine.

Yes, another crazy post... In a game were indiduallity win champs and where we have a 22 YO leader, who has PO stats where he is in range of LBJ, Kobe, KAJ.... At the same age... Not sure what this post means. When you thing that our number 2 is 24 and has already the level of the leader

They were not mentally ready. CBS was outcoached (but he is also young and maybe hasn't also reached his level). And DA didn't bring roster adjustment, because he didn't believe we were ready. And was probably wrong.

As absurd as it sounds, do you really think this team will win anything staying the same? Obviously, I'm not suggesting for a trade or replacing the coach. What I'm saying that they need a new philosophy and mindset coming next year.

You would think they have learned their lesson from 2 previous seasons, but no. Same old mistakes that cost them this season.

[knuckleballer]

The idea that a team led by a 22 year has reached its peak is completely asinine.

Yes, another crazy post... In a game were indiduallity win champs and where we have a 22 YO leader, who has PO stats where he is in range of LBJ, Kobe, KAJ.... At the same age... Not sure what this post means. When you thing that our number 2 is 24 and has already the level of the leader

They were not mentally ready. CBS was outcoached (but he is also young and maybe hasn't also reached his level). And DA didn't bring roster adjustment, because he didn't believe we were ready. And was probably wrong.

As absurd as it sounds, do you really think this team will win anything staying the same? Obviously, I'm not suggesting for a trade or replacing the coach. What I'm saying that they need a new philosophy and mindset coming next year.

You would think they have learned their lesson from 2 previous seasons, but no. Same old mistakes that cost them this season.

This team was broken up last year.  We couldn’t add Kemba without dropping valuable role players for cap reasons.  We completely wiped ourselves out and that’s ok.  This wasn’t the year to contend.  The fact we came close was awesome and fun and that we came up short is nothing to be upset about. 

Let’s add a veteran with the MLE and maybe a vet min contract to someone hoping to contend for a ring.  Because that’s what we will now be for years to come... a serious contender.

Right now, I’m excited about what we’ll do with our three first round picks, something semi finalists rarely have the luxury to think about.

[LilRip]

Yes, we are at our ceiling right now and this is because basketball is a team sport. For example, as great as the Thunder were with KD, Russ, and Serge, they were likely at their ceiling because of how the rest of the team was built. On that note...

Tatum-Brown-Kemba

Those are your 3 best players, in that order. Keep those 3 and think about retooling this team. What do those 3 need to be successful? Who are the next 5-6 guys you need in your rotation?

Theis, I think is a no brainer. Keep him. But ideally he’s a backup
Grant Williams too. If he improves (especially his shooting) he can be big for us. But I think he can make strides to be your starting 4, as a corner knockdown shooter.
And that’s about it.

- C’s need a vet playmaker
- C’s need a shooter specialist
- C’s need a mobile, coachable big who can make high IQ plays but doesn’t need plays run for him to be effective

Those for me are the high prio skillsets. We don’t have a shooter, and we’re overloaded with playmakers and inefficient scorers.

agree with most everything with one significant exception: the three best players whom the c’s should build around are tatum, brown, smart.

marcus shot poorly tonight and his penchant for jacking threes can be excruciatingly frustrating but let’s not allow tonight’s pain to blind us from the games during these playoffs when he carried us and this forum was ready to deify him. kemba was not only a complete no-show this playoffs, but he was a huge liability in the final two rounds.

if danny adds exactly what you mentioned, a vet playmaker, a shooter, and a quality big, marcus doesn’t need to shoot as much, and can focus on facilitating on offense, in which he excels. find a poor man’s rondo who doesn’t expect to score but sets up tatum and brown, and isn’t a defensive liability, and we’re a much improved team.

I see where you’re coming from but I gotta disagree with the bolded part. To quote CBS, Marcus is the definition of a home run hitter. I don’t think you can get the level of passion from him on D without having to live with his similar bravado on offense. I’d wager his bad shots are not by design, but he breaks plays and calls his own number anyway because he thinks he can make that shot.

So even in a better team (aka a more offensively capable team), hard to imagine Smart reigning it in.

Also, if you’re keeping Smart instead of Kemba, I’d say we’d need a professional scorer off the bench instead of a playmaker. A Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford type who knows how to get buckets or get to the line. So I’d flip that part around on my initial list.

[Rikibellevie]

The idea that a team led by a 22 year has reached its peak is completely asinine.

Yes, another crazy post... In a game were indiduallity win champs and where we have a 22 YO leader, who has PO stats where he is in range of LBJ, Kobe, KAJ.... At the same age... Not sure what this post means. When you thing that our number 2 is 24 and has already the level of the leader

They were not mentally ready. CBS was outcoached (but he is also young and maybe hasn't also reached his level). And DA didn't bring roster adjustment, because he didn't believe we were ready. And was probably wrong.

As absurd as it sounds, do you really think this team will win anything staying the same? Obviously, I'm not suggesting for a trade or replacing the coach. What I'm saying that they need a new philosophy and mindset coming next year.

You would think they have learned their lesson from 2 previous seasons, but no. Same old mistakes that cost them this season.

I think the team won't stay the same as the team will improve, individually and collectivelly. As Ainge will make move to contend next year (and/or find one or two rookies who will be usefull for the future).
JT and JB are (one of) the best duo for a decennie to come. Kemba, Smart and  GH (even if I have more doubts about his mentality and physic) are wonderfull supporting cast. Grant, Robert and maybe Langford will be key role/bench players.

We just need to imporve inside and find a deadly shooter from the bench. One can be acquired by draft (trade up for Okongwu ? Draft Nesmith ?) the other should COME by trade or MLE... We can still miss the finishes, but it is the easyest part in our building that is still to come.

[mr. dee]

The idea that a team led by a 22 year has reached its peak is completely asinine.

Yes, another crazy post... In a game were indiduallity win champs and where we have a 22 YO leader, who has PO stats where he is in range of LBJ, Kobe, KAJ.... At the same age... Not sure what this post means. When you thing that our number 2 is 24 and has already the level of the leader

They were not mentally ready. CBS was outcoached (but he is also young and maybe hasn't also reached his level). And DA didn't bring roster adjustment, because he didn't believe we were ready. And was probably wrong.

As absurd as it sounds, do you really think this team will win anything staying the same? Obviously, I'm not suggesting for a trade or replacing the coach. What I'm saying that they need a new philosophy and mindset coming next year.

You would think they have learned their lesson from 2 previous seasons, but no. Same old mistakes that cost them this season.

I think the team won't stay the same as the team will improve, individually and collectivelly. As Ainge will make move to contend next year (and/or find one or two rookies who will be usefull for the future).
JT and JB are (one of) the best duo for a decennie to come. Kemba, Smart and  GH (even if I have more doubts about his mentality and physic) are wonderfull supporting cast. Grant, Robert and maybe Langford will be key role/bench players.

We just need to imporve inside and find a deadly shooter from the bench. One can be acquired by draft (trade up for Okongwu ? Draft Nesmith ?) the other should COME by trade or MLE... We can still miss the finishes, but it is the easyest part in our building that is still to come.

If Brad keep getting his players playing out of their roles, then I'm afraid it will just replicate this year's underachievement, regardless of who is playing. It's his job to know the limits of his role players and restrict them when necessary.

We can't go any younger if we are shooting for the stars next year. Keep Timelord, Grant and Romeo, but no more rookies who will just ride the end of bench. Having the same results every year is frustrating. This is Brad's 7th year in the league now. Excuses are running out for him if he can't get things done.

[BMark]

I believe the Cs just need to learn how to play better as a team, offensively.  Too many ISOs killed them.

I hope GH leave for his sake.  There have to be too many bad memories for him here.  He clearly was having difficulty pushing off his foot last night so I don't blame him for his substandard performance.

[Vermont Green]

People are understandably frustrated over a series loss that it seemed we could have won.  I am not down on this Celtics team though.  We lost because Miami had guys like Herro, Iguodala, and Robinson play at times, like all stars.  Bench players are not the ones that are supposed to play big in big playoff games but it happens I guess.  We missed opportunities, had too many turnovers, and made other mistakes but you have to hand it to Miami.  They beat us after beating Milwaukee.

As to moving forward, we have an unbalanced roster with too much invested in wings and not enough in bigs.  Easy to see, harder to fix.  We also have a ton of money tied up in Walker and Hayward who both didn't help in the series commensurate with max players.  Both are probably dealing with injuries that are not anyone's fault.

Hard to think Hayward won't pick up his option so we probably have him for another year.  Walker for a few more years.  Not sure where we stand with these guys.  They may bounce back, may not.  I suspect that both are trade candidates.  And I love Marcus Smart.  I am happy to keep him.

My prediction is that trades for Hayward and/or Walker will explored but probably nothing comes of it.  We get a few draft picks, maybe a minor FA or two, and run it back next season hoping Walker and Hayward stay healthy and the young players all improve.  That is not the worst thing.

[Sophomore]

People are understandably frustrated over a series loss that it seemed we could have won.  I am not down on this Celtics team though.  We lost because Miami had guys like Herro, Iguodala, and Robinson play at times, like all stars.  Bench players are not the ones that are supposed to play big in big playoff games but it happens I guess.  We missed opportunities, had too many turnovers, and made other mistakes but you have to hand it to Miami.  They beat us after beating Milwaukee.

As to moving forward, we have an unbalanced roster with too much invested in wings and not enough in bigs.  Easy to see, harder to fix.  We also have a ton of money tied up in Walker and Hayward who both didn't help in the series commensurate with max players.  Both are probably dealing with injuries that are not anyone's fault.

Hard to think Hayward won't pick up his option so we probably have him for another year.  Walker for a few more years.  Not sure where we stand with these guys.  They may bounce back, may not.  I suspect that both are trade candidates.  And I love Marcus Smart.  I am happy to keep him.

My prediction is that trades for Hayward and/or Walker will explored but probably nothing comes of it.  We get a few draft picks, maybe a minor FA or two, and run it back next season hoping Walker and Hayward stay healthy and the young players all improve.  That is not the worst thing.

I don’t agree that too many wings was the problem. The team was right there, and when they played to their potential they won those minutes. When you get to the conference finals, the other teams are really good. It’s pretty likely your opponent will be better than you are in at least one position, maybe 2. So yes, Bam was better than our centers. But if we didn’t blow big leads in the fourth quarters of games 1 and 2, we probably win the series in 5 or 6 games. This team, for unknowable reasons, has a bad habit of going away from its strengths when things get tough. They stop attacking and start settling for early 3s. They lose focus on D. (Jaylen is an excellent 1 on 1 defender, and maybe my favorite C right now, but man, he loses his place in the team scheme too often.) They had plenty to get to the finals this year, they just lose their composure. How to fix *that* I don’t know.

[PhoSita]

I agree with Soph.

The roster emphasis on wings is at times a strength and at times a weakness.

But it's not destiny that having a wing heavy closing lineup would result in what these Celts did time and again in these playoffs, and have done for a while going back to last year, ie revert to chucking threes early in the clock when things get tight.

I will remember this team as a fun, likeable young group that exceeded a lot of my expectations, but ultimately disappointed because they couldn't commit to a balanced game plan in big moments.

[iadera]

I'm affraid yes. Not far from this. Maybe one more try by adding a true star player somehow...

Reality says, we are in the middle of nowhere. Can't add bigger names, not many high draft picks. We just have what we have. But next year brings us also new Brooklyn, maybe new Phila, maybe Knicks will finaly make some reasonable moves... Very hard we get bigger chance then this year.

[iadera]

I agree with Soph.

The roster emphasis on wings is at times a strength and at times a weakness.

But it's not destiny that having a wing heavy closing lineup would result in what these Celts did time and again in these playoffs, and have done for a while going back to last year, ie revert to chucking threes early in the clock when things get tight.

I will remember this team as a fun, likeable young group that exceeded a lot of my expectations, but ultimately disappointed because they couldn't commit to a balanced game plan in big moments.

Absolutely. As well as Brad Stevens. I will always like him, but just not ever expect from him bigger things.