The ridiculous pessimism regarding Jaylen Brown

[RJ87]

It's summer, it's Friday, there's nothing else going on, so I'm going to nitpick.

Don't get anything below twisted though, I like Jaylen Brown, he just comes off like somebody who wants to be intellectual, rather than actually being intellectual.

He is 22 years old and was voted in as an executive VP of the NBPA. You don't get that high up in the NBA Players Association by faking your intelligence or intellect.

You get that high up simply by volunteering.  There's like 450 people in the NBPA, how many you think ran for that position?  My guess is less than 30, and but either way it's really more of a popularity contest.  You think there's an intelligent test to get in there?  There's zero correlation between being intelligent and being voted into a role.  Especially when there's likely only a very small pool of applicants to begin with.  What kind of annoys me with all this is how people laud his intellect, but I never see anybody laud the intellect of the other 8 guys on the NBPA, or any of the past NBPA members (including Carmelo Anthony, Patrick Ewing, LeBron James, our own Tommy Heinsohn, etc.).

He has been named a Director Fellowship at an MIT Media Lab.

 
This is an honorary, celebrity role.  Exactly the kind of thing you can get by being a celebrity and faking intellect.  Again, do you think there was some kind of admissions test Jaylen took?  Do you think he'd have that role if he wasn't a multi-million dollar Boston athlete?  It would be different if he got accepted to MIT as an undergrad or something.  It's like saying somebody's intelligent because they have an honorary doctorate.

It's like Kanye West, because he has a doctorate degree (honorary) and has spoken at Harvard and Oxford, that means he's intelligent right?  Successful yes.  Musical genius, sure. Kyrie-like intellect, probably. Real intellect, not from where I'm sitting.

Kyrie Irving (who I think we all agree on the pseudo-intellect part) is/was enrolled at Harvard. So he's really intelligent too?

Everything you just mentioned to prove his intelligence, none of it comes off as actually proving intelligence to me.  Same way it was when he came into the NBA, oh he likes chess, tried to teach himself guitar and Spanish, oh that makes him intelligent.  No it doesn't. It just shows you maybe have some unique interests compared to the regular young NBA star.  My worry is he's one of those people that thinks, "intelligent people like the opera, and I want to be intelligent, so I'll watch the opera." That's kind of how he's always come off to me.

Not saying this to bash Jaylen, I like him.  Happy he's on the C's.  It's more of me getting annoyed at the "oh, he's so intelligent" laurels.  Those interests don't make him intelligent, but they're definitely cool to have.

TP to all of this, bdm.

I don't hate Jaylen, I even made a thread towards the end of the season giving him props on his turn around. I think he can be a good player if he can find a way to be consistent not just over the course of the season but play to play - i.e. no headscratching defensive breakdowns.

Either way, this season is a moment of truth for him. Same for Tatum. Same for Hayward. There's no more excuses and these guys have everything to prove.

[droopdog7]

Regarding Jalyen’s intelligence, I mean I’m not even sure.  If I’m being honest, I question is actual intelligence as well.  I’m not really sure I’ve ever actually seen what kind of grades he got in high school or college.  This is in contrast to someone like grant Williams, whose mother is some kind of rocket science and he himself was recruited by Ivy League schools.

The proper description for brown, i think, is that he’s eccentric.  He’s just a bit of a weird cat.  I can see how that would make it difficult for brown to relate to teammates.

[Rosco917]

Finally, towards the end of last season, it looked like Jayen found himself. He probed the paint rather than forcing himself to the rim. He learned to read the openings. He didn't look like a deer in the headlights when he missed a free throw any longer. His 3 point shooting improved as the season went on. He's always been an adventure on defense, one minute looking like Marcus Smart the next blowing an assignment. All in all, I have a feeling this is his year.

Intelligence isn't everything...I understand he's intelligent, he's also young, and at times unconfident on a basketball court. He's athletic... but is he a basketball player.

Frankly, I really don't care if he's exceptionally intelligent, I care about the results he provides on the court. This is his fourth year, I'm expecting a glimpse of a finished product.  Intelligent or not, if it fails to show up... he's trade bait.

[bdm860]

Unintelligent people do not take graduate courses at Cal when they are freshmen. Unintelligent people don't learn how to speak Spanish and Arabic just because.

Unintelligent people do not receive leadership positions in the NBPA at 22 years old. Look at the leadership. Chris Paul, Andre guodala, Pau Gasol, Lebron, and others. All older by 3-4 years, some by over a decade. And all well spoken, engaged and proactive people, like Brown. Those traits are because of intelligence.

Unintelligent people don't diversify their interests into chess, playing instruments, learning languages, learning the NBA CBA, going to financial investment seminars, throw welcoming parties to just drafted players to guide them through the 1st year of their professional life, and they aren't given Fellowships at MIT.

Sure you can look at each individual thing and say, well yeah sometimes unintelligent people do those things. But unintelligent  don't do all those things, all before reaching the age of 23. If Brown just did one or two of these things, sure, then maybe the word that he is very intelligent can be questioned. But when you take in the totality of what he is doing and has accomplished, you see only people of high intelligence do all those different things.

Brown is well spoken, always seeking to learn more, very well rounded, and extremely self aware. Those are not traits of unintelligent people. Heck, those are not the traits of just average people. When you look at the total picture of Brown, take into consideration all the praise he gets for being intelligent from people who know him best, it's difficult for me to see him as anything but a very intelligent, motivated, always looking to learn and improve individual.

Just want to emphasize, I don't think Jaylen Brown is unintelligent, it's more that I don't think he contains this extraordinary uber-intelligence that sets him apart from all his NBA peers.  If everyone said he's as intelligent as "Chris Paul, Andre Iguodala, Pau Gasol, Lebron, and others," I'd have no problem with that.  There's a lot of intelligent, well-rounded, classy individuals in the NBA.  The league is full of guys like that.  Some people act like he's Einstein or da Vinci though.

Playing chess, learning an instrument, learning a language - that stuff seems like pretty ordinary stuff for a high school/college age kid to try, I know I tried all those things when I was about Jaylen's age, half this board probably did too.  Personally though, I think it's all being spun to make him sound like a chess grand master, musical prodigy, linguistic savant, when he probably gave up learning Spanish and playing the guitar after 2 weeks like most people.  You gotta read between the lines, the articles always say "he played chess, taught himself Spanish, how to play the guitar" they never say or demonstrate in any way how he's good at those things.  That's PR fluff trying to make somebody seem like they're more than they're are.  Or maybe I'm just jaded, but that's why I roll my eyes at accolades like that.  They're making ordinary coming of age experiences sound special.

If you replaced "unintelligent" with "unambitious" I'd agree with you, but I don't think they're one in the same.

I like Jaylen.  Seems like a good guy.  NBA rookie thing is to me the most impressive thing on his "intellectual" resume.  NBPA position does nothing for me though, although I always hated the do gooders on student council. 

You seem to insinuate that he does these things only to show other people how smart and interesting he is, I tend to think that while he may enjoy the praise, most of his motivation is intrinsically based. I do not think he is all fluff and no substance.

The way you put, it makes it sound like I think Jaylen is doing that for narcissistic reasons, not at all what I think.  But I think he wants to be considered intelligent, so he does things that he thinks will make him look intelligent in others eyes, rather than out of pure enjoyment on his part.  I'm sticking with my opera analogy.  Some people go because they actually enjoy it, some people go because they think that's what they should do.  Jaylen seems like he falls in the latter.

Not to hate, I've been there and done things like that too.  I'm sure many of us have.

But it's that effort that I think makes him sometimes come off as similar to Kyrie's philosophical enlightenment 

[tstorey_97]

I don't care about Brown's intellect or attitude. It doesn't affect the team unless he plays badly. In the playoffs, the team looked better on the court with him. He is much more of a "fighter" than a lot of his team mates.

He played as well or better than anyone in the 5 game series against the Bucks. Think of the games, he played hard and for him, smarter than usual.

On the whole the Celtics looked awful against Milwaukee while Brown did not. There were three starters who are still here...I'll use the last 7 games of the playoffs for the basic comparison.

Brown - 16.9 ppg - 14/35 40% 3PT - 23/30 76% FT - 40/76 52.6FG%
GH -----  9.0 ppg - 8/20 40% 3PT - 13/13 100% FT - 21/51 41% FG
Tatum -13.7 ppg - 4/22 18% 3 PT - 28/38 73.6% FT- 32/82 39% FG

With some thought on the "whys" above, the Bucks played a really "big" lineup and hammered on defense. We all saw it, Celtic's coaches and players didn't adjust and it wasn't pretty....except for Brown. He did not check out.

Hayward, hopefully, bottomed out there. Those are not starter's stats. The Buck's coaching staff didn't have to scheme for Hayward, he simply wouldn't take any shots.

Tatum lost it somewhat and the threes just ended. Bucks had a plan to beat him up and it worked.

As far as attitude and the like. Every team is going to have a couple of guys who are "one of those." Just play hard for your team...right? If you're going to be stupid off the court? You might be in good company. Boogie set the record for ejections two years ago...he played ok though...so he's not an idiot?

Irving complained that Brown went out one night. Irving quit this team after two years and moved to New York. He shot his way out of Cleveland and he left his first high School after two years to play at his second high school....and Brown's a bad guy for going out? Irving never stayed anywhere longer than for a cup of coffee in his life and he's a leader.

Brown gets assigned to play defense on some pretty shiny NBA royalty
doesn't he?

[mr. dee]

Like people said, I don't really care about his off-court activities as long as it doesn't cause distraction on the court.

People may laugh at the likes of JaVale McGee for his low BBIQ but the dude is academically smart, finishing with 4.5 GPA in high school.

[playdream]

I don't care about Brown's intellect or attitude. It doesn't affect the team unless he plays badly. In the playoffs, the team looked better on the court with him. He is much more of a "fighter" than a lot of his team mates.

He played as well or better than anyone in the 5 game series against the Bucks. Think of the games, he played hard and for him, smarter than usual.

On the whole the Celtics looked awful against Milwaukee while Brown did not. There were three starters who are still here...I'll use the last 7 games of the playoffs for the basic comparison.

Brown - 16.9 ppg - 14/35 40% 3PT - 23/30 76% FT - 40/76 52.6FG%
GH -----  9.0 ppg - 8/20 40% 3PT - 13/13 100% FT - 21/51 41% FG
Tatum -13.7 ppg - 4/22 18% 3 PT - 28/38 73.6% FT- 32/82 39% FG

With some thought on the "whys" above, the Bucks played a really "big" lineup and hammered on defense. We all saw it, Celtic's coaches and players didn't adjust and it wasn't pretty....except for Brown. He did not check out.

Hayward, hopefully, bottomed out there. Those are not starter's stats. The Buck's coaching staff didn't have to scheme for Hayward, he simply wouldn't take any shots.

Tatum lost it somewhat and the threes just ended. Bucks had a plan to beat him up and it worked.

As far as attitude and the like. Every team is going to have a couple of guys who are "one of those." Just play hard for your team...right? If you're going to be stupid off the court? You might be in good company. Boogie set the record for ejections two years ago...he played ok though...so he's not an idiot?

Irving complained that Brown went out one night. Irving quit this team after two years and moved to New York. He shot his way out of Cleveland and he left his first high School after two years to play at his second high school....and Brown's a bad guy for going out? Irving never stayed anywhere longer than for a cup of coffee in his life and he's a leader.

Brown gets assigned to play defense on some pretty shiny NBA royalty
doesn't he?

At some point you have to wonder why everybody played poor except Brown, why is he the only one to get barked and pushed by his teammates, why is he called a weird guy in the locker room

Now if he is MJ none of this matters but he is not, obviously

[mmmmm]

The only thing that concerns me with Brown, is the report in the Jackie McMullen article about that road trip in Miami where the Celtics had a back to back and Kyrie was upset that some of the young players wanted to go out bar hopping after a long late flight and a game the next day.  This right before Jaylens indirect comments towards Kyrie in the media

Follow that up with these random, sometimes immature, posts on Jaylens Instagram/Twitter lately that are being posted at 2 and 3am.

It makes me wonder how focused he is sometimes, or at the very least, lacks common sense on occasion.

First, you don’t know if Brown was one of the young guys he was referring to.
Second, while I’m not really aware of the the posts he’s made, but a 22 year old man being up at 2am during the off season is no concern to me.

Especially if he happens to send a tweet out from the West Coast.  An 11 pm tweet there will show up as 2 am here on the East.

Unless we have 24/7 surveillance on all of Jaylen (or any player's) activities all summer, we don't really have any basis for doubting their commitment.   Just because a player does other activities doesn't mean they aren't 110% committed to basketball.   You can only work out and practice for so many hours a day.   If a player is spending 2-3 hours doing something interesting and maybe tweeting about it that doesn't mean he didn't log a solid 10 hours devoted to the game.

[mmmmm]

I don't care about Brown's intellect or attitude. It doesn't affect the team unless he plays badly. In the playoffs, the team looked better on the court with him. He is much more of a "fighter" than a lot of his team mates.

He played as well or better than anyone in the 5 game series against the Bucks. Think of the games, he played hard and for him, smarter than usual.

On the whole the Celtics looked awful against Milwaukee while Brown did not. There were three starters who are still here...I'll use the last 7 games of the playoffs for the basic comparison.

Brown - 16.9 ppg - 14/35 40% 3PT - 23/30 76% FT - 40/76 52.6FG%
GH -----  9.0 ppg - 8/20 40% 3PT - 13/13 100% FT - 21/51 41% FG
Tatum -13.7 ppg - 4/22 18% 3 PT - 28/38 73.6% FT- 32/82 39% FG

With some thought on the "whys" above, the Bucks played a really "big" lineup and hammered on defense. We all saw it, Celtic's coaches and players didn't adjust and it wasn't pretty....except for Brown. He did not check out.

Hayward, hopefully, bottomed out there. Those are not starter's stats. The Buck's coaching staff didn't have to scheme for Hayward, he simply wouldn't take any shots.

Tatum lost it somewhat and the threes just ended. Bucks had a plan to beat him up and it worked.

As far as attitude and the like. Every team is going to have a couple of guys who are "one of those." Just play hard for your team...right? If you're going to be stupid off the court? You might be in good company. Boogie set the record for ejections two years ago...he played ok though...so he's not an idiot?

Irving complained that Brown went out one night. Irving quit this team after two years and moved to New York. He shot his way out of Cleveland and he left his first high School after two years to play at his second high school....and Brown's a bad guy for going out? Irving never stayed anywhere longer than for a cup of coffee in his life and he's a leader.

Brown gets assigned to play defense on some pretty shiny NBA royalty
doesn't he?

At some point you have to wonder why everybody played poor except Brown, why is he the only one to get barked and pushed by his teammates, why is he called a weird guy in the locker room

Now if he is MJ none of this matters but he is not, obviously

Do you have any actual evidence that _any_ what you just asked about is even true?

Just because Morris and Smart each had unprofessional moments in public doesn't mean any of what you just implied is happening in the locker room.

Brown's peers elected him to be their NBPA player rep one year and then elected him to be a VP to the NBPA Executive Committee.   I suspect they have a high level of respect for him.

[playdream]

The only thing that concerns me with Brown, is the report in the Jackie McMullen article about that road trip in Miami where the Celtics had a back to back and Kyrie was upset that some of the young players wanted to go out bar hopping after a long late flight and a game the next day.  This right before Jaylens indirect comments towards Kyrie in the media

Follow that up with these random, sometimes immature, posts on Jaylens Instagram/Twitter lately that are being posted at 2 and 3am.

It makes me wonder how focused he is sometimes, or at the very least, lacks common sense on occasion.

First, you don’t know if Brown was one of the young guys he was referring to.
Second, while I’m not really aware of the the posts he’s made, but a 22 year old man being up at 2am during the off season is no concern to me.

Especially if he happens to send a tweet out from the West Coast.  An 11 pm tweet there will show up as 2 am here on the East.

Unless we have 24/7 surveillance on all of Jaylen (or any player's) activities all summer, we don't really have any basis for doubting their commitment.   Just because a player does other activities doesn't mean they aren't 110% committed to basketball.   You can only work out and practice for so many hours a day.   If a player is spending 2-3 hours doing something interesting and maybe tweeting about it that doesn't mean he didn't log a solid 10 hours devoted to the game.

You don't have to kid yourself like that

If you spend time on chess, piano, baseball, travel, speech and many others, there won't even be enough time to "be 110% committed to basketball" , that's common sense territory

Unless of course he has more than 24 hour a day or he doesn't need sleeping, eating and all other daily routines

[playdream]

I don't care about Brown's intellect or attitude. It doesn't affect the team unless he plays badly. In the playoffs, the team looked better on the court with him. He is much more of a "fighter" than a lot of his team mates.

He played as well or better than anyone in the 5 game series against the Bucks. Think of the games, he played hard and for him, smarter than usual.

On the whole the Celtics looked awful against Milwaukee while Brown did not. There were three starters who are still here...I'll use the last 7 games of the playoffs for the basic comparison.

Brown - 16.9 ppg - 14/35 40% 3PT - 23/30 76% FT - 40/76 52.6FG%
GH -----  9.0 ppg - 8/20 40% 3PT - 13/13 100% FT - 21/51 41% FG
Tatum -13.7 ppg - 4/22 18% 3 PT - 28/38 73.6% FT- 32/82 39% FG

With some thought on the "whys" above, the Bucks played a really "big" lineup and hammered on defense. We all saw it, Celtic's coaches and players didn't adjust and it wasn't pretty....except for Brown. He did not check out.

Hayward, hopefully, bottomed out there. Those are not starter's stats. The Buck's coaching staff didn't have to scheme for Hayward, he simply wouldn't take any shots.

Tatum lost it somewhat and the threes just ended. Bucks had a plan to beat him up and it worked.

As far as attitude and the like. Every team is going to have a couple of guys who are "one of those." Just play hard for your team...right? If you're going to be stupid off the court? You might be in good company. Boogie set the record for ejections two years ago...he played ok though...so he's not an idiot?

Irving complained that Brown went out one night. Irving quit this team after two years and moved to New York. He shot his way out of Cleveland and he left his first high School after two years to play at his second high school....and Brown's a bad guy for going out? Irving never stayed anywhere longer than for a cup of coffee in his life and he's a leader.

Brown gets assigned to play defense on some pretty shiny NBA royalty
doesn't he?

At some point you have to wonder why everybody played poor except Brown, why is he the only one to get barked and pushed by his teammates, why is he called a weird guy in the locker room

Now if he is MJ none of this matters but he is not, obviously

Do you have any actual evidence that _any_ what you just asked about is even true?

Just because Morris and Smart each had unprofessional moments in public doesn't mean any of what you just implied is happening in the locker room.

Brown's peers elected him to be their NBPA player rep one year and then elected him to be a VP to the NBPA Executive Committee.   I suspect they have a high level of respect for him.

NBPA Executive Committee is cool, just like speech in Harvard,  but that doesn't mean he is not a weird-do

Why Smart and Morris had unprofessional moments only towards Brown? does that have something to do with his "weird guy" behavior?

By Jackie MacMullan ESPN Senior Writer
.....Smart felt compelled to express himself.

"Hey!" he barked at Brown. "We're here for you. We want to help. We want to hear from you."

Silence.

"Say something! Participate with us! Are you with us?"

Brown, his doe eyes widening, looked directly at Smart and nodded.

"It's funny," Smart says now, still incredulous. "He didn't say a word."

[mmmmm]

I don't care about Brown's intellect or attitude. It doesn't affect the team unless he plays badly. In the playoffs, the team looked better on the court with him. He is much more of a "fighter" than a lot of his team mates.

He played as well or better than anyone in the 5 game series against the Bucks. Think of the games, he played hard and for him, smarter than usual.

On the whole the Celtics looked awful against Milwaukee while Brown did not. There were three starters who are still here...I'll use the last 7 games of the playoffs for the basic comparison.

Brown - 16.9 ppg - 14/35 40% 3PT - 23/30 76% FT - 40/76 52.6FG%
GH -----  9.0 ppg - 8/20 40% 3PT - 13/13 100% FT - 21/51 41% FG
Tatum -13.7 ppg - 4/22 18% 3 PT - 28/38 73.6% FT- 32/82 39% FG

With some thought on the "whys" above, the Bucks played a really "big" lineup and hammered on defense. We all saw it, Celtic's coaches and players didn't adjust and it wasn't pretty....except for Brown. He did not check out.

Hayward, hopefully, bottomed out there. Those are not starter's stats. The Buck's coaching staff didn't have to scheme for Hayward, he simply wouldn't take any shots.

Tatum lost it somewhat and the threes just ended. Bucks had a plan to beat him up and it worked.

As far as attitude and the like. Every team is going to have a couple of guys who are "one of those." Just play hard for your team...right? If you're going to be stupid off the court? You might be in good company. Boogie set the record for ejections two years ago...he played ok though...so he's not an idiot?

Irving complained that Brown went out one night. Irving quit this team after two years and moved to New York. He shot his way out of Cleveland and he left his first high School after two years to play at his second high school....and Brown's a bad guy for going out? Irving never stayed anywhere longer than for a cup of coffee in his life and he's a leader.

Brown gets assigned to play defense on some pretty shiny NBA royalty
doesn't he?

At some point you have to wonder why everybody played poor except Brown, why is he the only one to get barked and pushed by his teammates, why is he called a weird guy in the locker room

Now if he is MJ none of this matters but he is not, obviously

Do you have any actual evidence that _any_ what you just asked about is even true?

Just because Morris and Smart each had unprofessional moments in public doesn't mean any of what you just implied is happening in the locker room.

Brown's peers elected him to be their NBPA player rep one year and then elected him to be a VP to the NBPA Executive Committee.   I suspect they have a high level of respect for him.

NBPA Executive Committee is cool, just like speech in Harvard,  but that doesn't mean he is not a weird-do

Why Smart and Morris had unprofessional moments only towards Brown? does that have something to do with his "weird guy" behavior?

By Jackie MacMullan ESPN Senior Writer
.....Smart felt compelled to express himself.

"Hey!" he barked at Brown. "We're here for you. We want to help. We want to hear from you."

Silence.

"Say something! Participate with us! Are you with us?"

Brown, his doe eyes widening, looked directly at Smart and nodded.

"It's funny," Smart says now, still incredulous. "He didn't say a word."

1) Jackie writes speculative narrative fiction these days more than actual news reports.  Was she actually witness to these events?  If not where is the quote from the person who described Jaylen as "doe eyed"?   Whenever a writer uses 3rd person to relate things like that, it has stepped away from reporting.

2) Smart loses control of his emotions, yells at a co-worker who correctly doesn't respond emotionally back and you apparently think the latter is "weird-do".

[Celtics4ever]

I used to like Jackie MacMullan, these days all she reports is gossip harmful to the team.

[hodgy03038]

I just want Brown to guard Kyrie every time we play Brooklyn.

[celticinorlando]

This is a big year for Brown. If he doesn't take that next step he could be moved.