Author Topic: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying  (Read 2148 times)

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Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« on: February 18, 2019, 05:40:50 AM »

Offline CroCorvus

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Since the news about the AD trade broke out, I feel kinda torn about it and his possible reunion with Ky in the Celtics. 

First of all let me say that AD is a TOP 5 player in a league. Period. He’s young (26), big versatile player who can do about everything on the floor, on the elite level. He can score, rebound, pass, run, has an outside and inside game, a rim protector. He can p’n’r and p’n’p. Play center or can play alongside to one (seems like he prefers PF). Seems like a good likeable dude, a true professional… He is what you need if you are trying to win. He can be a No.1 player on a championship team (btw, before the start of the season I had him winning MPV, I thought he would give Pelicans one last try to win, and if things would go south, then he would go out with his trade demand. Obviously, I was wrong, so we are having this kind of a weird situation).
 
What can I say about Jayson Tatum? I mean, the guy is everything we could ask for. Paul Pierce is probably the most popular Celtic of all time, along with Larry and Bill. He was everything Celtic fans could ask for. Jayson Tatum could be the next Paul Pierce. He could play for the Celtics next 15 years. He is only 21. He is a long forward, a swingman, who can do pretty much everything on the floor. He can score on the elite level, he can rebound, he can play inside and outside, he can pass, he plays defense, he runs the floor, he is clutch. Seem s like a low maintenance kind of person, very likeable, great teammate, professional, and probably a future TOP 15-20 player in the league. Everything about this guy screams success. His demeanour, his childhood and parenting by a single mother taught him well. Even the trade with the Philly was awesome, considered as the one in a hundred. This is his second season with the Celtics, says all the right things, wants to stay in Boston and that should be enough. Most importantly, I consider this an organic growth of the franchise and the team and we should stick with that.

Here is why I think Danny should keep Tatum off the table in any conversations regarding Davis trade.
Besides all the above mentioned basketball reasons, do we really, really want to spend our next idk 5-7 years in fear of a health issues with both AD and Kyrie on our team? Do we really want to do that? Because of his athletic abilities and his ultra-extreme changes of directions, Kyrie is having his knee issues. Which is in a way understandable, because this is not normal for any player for how he moves quickly. It has to take its toll on the body, and Kyrie is feeling it already for some time. He is in his prime. The same thing is with AD. He plays the game the same way, with his heart, goes hard every game, and he is fragile, just like Kyrie.

I really like Kyrie and with these 12 deep Celtics team, we can tolerate his annual absence of 15 or even 20 games per season. You got enough guards and enough scorers to cover that. The Playoffs are different animal, we saw it last season. You do not go anywhere without healthy Kyrie. Period.

Now, if we sell our farm to get AD, we do not have enough strength if any of these two are out. Ok, this is not a primary reason I am against this trade proposal because if you are including JT in a trade you are not selling the whole farm (probably), and there is always a solid portion of veterans that can help. The main reason I am against this trade proposal is you have this bright young man, a future star in the league, potential Celtics great, that you are trading for a pretty solid dose of uncertainty.

I don’t know about the rest of you guys but I do not want to spend the next 5-7 years in constant fear of the next Kyrie and AD season ending injury (KG’s knee was enough!). Ofc there is no guarantee that JT will be healthy but you already have this history of number of injuries of Ky and AD based on what you do risk assessment. I can tolerate Ky being out 15-20 games per season, but I am afraid going forward with both AD and Kyrie without JT.

I am down with any trade for AD that involves picks (idk give em 5-6 picks), any of our young players (Semmy, Bob Williams, Yabu), give them Morris and Rozier (I know they are expiring contracts), and give them Brown and Hayward. Take back one of their bad contracts. Whatever, but do not give them Tatum. Or Smarty. These two are the pillars of our future.

If this means Kyrie leaves, fine. We did not lose that trade anyway so why compromise our future. Build with Tatum, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Rozier and others, along with Brad at the helm.

If we are not able to get AD without giving up JT, and Kyrie still signs the extension, Danny should try to keep Big Al while restructuring his next contract giving him less money but with a no trade clause (for a 3 yrs). Al seems that kind of a guy who value championship more than he cares about money (he earned big bucks already).

No need to say that a team build around a core of Kyrie, AD, Tatum, Smart and Big Al is definitely a big contender. If no AD, keep current players, try to resign Kyrie, bring another young big alongside Al, wait Gordon to come back to full strengths, and go all out with our young core. The team structured like this is no slouch and we should not trade our future for the uncertainty surrounding AD (including whole Klutch sports mess). 

My proposal would be Hayward, Brown, Rozier, Williams, Morris (if needed), plus picks (4-6 1st round picks) for AD and Hill (I hope this works in Trade machine, if not send fillers). I do not know that the Lakers offer trumps that. Really. If this is not enough, go away and keep the team with one-two upgrades. 

My two cents. Go Celtics, finish the season strong.
Nik

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 12:06:41 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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You wrote like a whole novel.  Bottom line is that Davis is likely much better than Tatum will even be.  Tatum could be the nex Paul pierce or the next Carmelo Anthony or the next Paul George but Anthony Davis trumps all those guys.  And tatum is not everything a guy could ask for.  He’s a virtually black hole that doesn’t project to be a good playmaker.

I know that fans get enamored by potential and become emotionally attached to guys.  And I don’t mind not trading for Davis.  But if Tatum is the sticking point, and you really want Davis, then I drive Tatum to NO myself.  It’s a no brainer.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:14:36 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2019, 01:16:12 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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I'd say if you had a signed extension, then id's includ Tatum but if not then no. Just because NO wants Tatum doesn't mean they'll get him.  I think they blew it not taking the Lakers offer.  There might be more bidding in the summer but not a better offer, unless they are waiting for the #1 pick to be determined then go for Zion, in which case tbs C's won't be in the conversation.  We can't trade until after the draft and I think in that situation we couldn't draft for NO.  So our 3/4 picks this year don't help in the trade.  If the Memphis pick doesn't convey I can see that pulse Brown as the core of a trade.  Then add rozier and some more picks.  Like all the other trades that players forced I think AD will go for less then people think.  I even think the Lakers will back down on their offer and offer less.  Remember Kawhi went for DeRozrn (a regular season hero but a playoff chump) and filler.   NO should have taken the Lakers offer.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2019, 01:36:09 PM »

Offline MichiganAdam

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I agree with the caveat of:  I trade Tatum for AD without question, but I do not trade two of smart, brown, and tatum for AD unless there are few to no picks involved.  I have no issue trading talent for talent, but I do have an issue with talented core young guys being used as "filler" for salary matching.  MAybe if a S&T for MM or TR can be added to MLE guy and salary from draft picks can make it( as others posted) JT + TR+MLE+a couple draft picks they I can get down with that.  JB, JT, and MS is a none starter with me without NO sending the C's picks...Teams need depth to win championships as well.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 12:02:30 PM »

Offline aefgogreen

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I'd say if you had a signed extension, then id's includ Tatum but if not then no. Just because NO wants Tatum doesn't mean they'll get him.  I think they blew it not taking the Lakers offer.  There might be more bidding in the summer but not a better offer, unless they are waiting for the #1 pick to be determined then go for Zion, in which case tbs C's won't be in the conversation.  We can't trade until after the draft and I think in that situation we couldn't draft for NO.  So our 3/4 picks this year don't help in the trade.  If the Memphis pick doesn't convey I can see that pulse Brown as the core of a trade.  Then add rozier and some more picks.  Like all the other trades that players forced I think AD will go for less then people think.  I even think the Lakers will back down on their offer and offer less.  Remember Kawhi went for DeRozrn (a regular season hero but a playoff chump) and filler.   NO should have taken the Lakers offer.

I think they held off because they are banking on the offer still being there from the Lakers.  Lebron is not getting younger and LA isn't going to wait until AD is a free agent.  They want to bring him on board ASAP.   Despite AD initially saying he'd only resign with the Lakers, I think there is going to be enough interest that they can get as good (or better) a deal as the Lakers have offered.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2019, 02:08:59 PM »

Offline CF033

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I'm torn on the whole thing... I would love to develop what we have in-house into a special team but on the other hand the chance to land a player like AD doesn't come along every day.

Like I've said in other threads though I don't believe that AD and Kyrie will bring us a championship. I could absolutely be wrong though.

To me I won't be disappointed either way I guess, whether we make the trade for AD or not. I believe that Tatum will have to be a part of the deal though or no go.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2019, 02:09:53 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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I agree with the caveat of:  I trade Tatum for AD without question, but I do not trade two of smart, brown, and tatum for AD unless there are few to no picks involved.  I have no issue trading talent for talent, but I do have an issue with talented core young guys being used as "filler" for salary matching.  MAybe if a S&T for MM or TR can be added to MLE guy and salary from draft picks can make it( as others posted) JT + TR+MLE+a couple draft picks they I can get down with that.  JB, JT, and MS is a none starter with me without NO sending the C's picks...Teams need depth to win championships as well.

Yeah,I would hope that if we offer the full arsenal of 4-5 first round picks (Memphis, Sacto, 2-3 Boston 1sts, maybe LAC), that Tatum and maybe Williams would be the only good young players / prospects we would need to include.  So hopefully keep Brown and Smart both, though ultimately if we land AD I might prefer Smart to Brown even though I think Brown is a better asset with better upside. 
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Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2019, 02:18:09 PM »

Offline JBcat

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One of my favorite trade packages since the S&T rules have become more clear to me is Tatum, MLE signee from buyout market for salary filler, S&T of Rozier, Williams and any assortment of our picks.  This way we keep Brown and Smart. 

If Horford actually opts in he is an asset we can use as well maybe in a 3 team deal.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 05:19:41 PM »

Offline NOSPAU

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Why would the Pelicans even consider a trade package that did not include Tatum?  I would imagine several other teams could beat a package centered around the other players.  Ainge needs to decide how badly he wants AD as he will likely not get a shot at a 26 year old top 5-6 player in the NBA again.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2019, 10:52:04 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Why would the Pelicans even consider a trade package that did not include Tatum?  I would imagine several other teams could beat a package centered around the other players.  Ainge needs to decide how badly he wants AD as he will likely not get a shot at a 26 year old top 5-6 player in the NBA again.

What do people think would be the best non-Tatum package we could offer? It would be something like Brown, Smart, Yabu, Williams + 3 or 4 first rounders? Would the Clips or the Lakers be able to beat that?
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 11:03:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Why would the Pelicans even consider a trade package that did not include Tatum?  I would imagine several other teams could beat a package centered around the other players.  Ainge needs to decide how badly he wants AD as he will likely not get a shot at a 26 year old top 5-6 player in the NBA again.

What do people think would be the best non-Tatum package we could offer? It would be something like Brown, Smart, Yabu, Williams + 3 or 4 first rounders? Would the Clips or the Lakers be able to beat that?
yes. Now if the sacto pick lands in the top 4 that changes things a bit
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Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 11:15:30 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Why would the Pelicans even consider a trade package that did not include Tatum?  I would imagine several other teams could beat a package centered around the other players.  Ainge needs to decide how badly he wants AD as he will likely not get a shot at a 26 year old top 5-6 player in the NBA again.

What do people think would be the best non-Tatum package we could offer? It would be something like Brown, Smart, Yabu, Williams + 3 or 4 first rounders? Would the Clips or the Lakers be able to beat that?

The Clippers couldn't touch it. Unless that Miami pick turns into something special, they have no valuable draft picks, very little in talent to send NO.

With the LAL, it depends on how much they like Kuzma or Ingram. Personally, I'd rather have the Celtic picks and Brown than Ingram and Kuzma, but reality is, the NOP want Jayson Tatum, and even if we give them the best offer of anyone and it doesn't include Tatum, they won't deal with us.

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2019, 11:23:45 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Why would the Pelicans even consider a trade package that did not include Tatum?  I would imagine several other teams could beat a package centered around the other players.  Ainge needs to decide how badly he wants AD as he will likely not get a shot at a 26 year old top 5-6 player in the NBA again.

What do people think would be the best non-Tatum package we could offer? It would be something like Brown, Smart, Yabu, Williams + 3 or 4 first rounders? Would the Clips or the Lakers be able to beat that?

The Clippers couldn't touch it. Unless that Miami pick turns into something special, they have no valuable draft picks, very little in talent to send NO.

With the LAL, it depends on how much they like Kuzma or Ingram. Personally, I'd rather have the Celtic picks and Brown than Ingram and Kuzma, but reality is, the NOP want Jayson Tatum, and even if we give them the best offer of anyone and it doesn't include Tatum, they won't deal with us.
I tend to think that if lakers present the best offer , then pelicans would accept a slightly weaker return from us just so they don’t send Davis to the lakers ... similar to how Paul George and Kawhi were dealt

Re: Uncertainty surrounding AD vs. Tatum staying
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 01:28:21 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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It’s like the chicken and the egg. Do the Celtics reach an agreement pre-draft and draft for New Orleans, without officially resigning Kyrie? Or do we draft our guys (and get a list of who NOP likes), and then make sure Kyrie resigns before pushing in and hoping they take who DA drafts?

Ultimately, if Kyrie resigns, you have to make a big offer for him and hope New Orleans accepts. If they are truly good friends, you put stock in that and hope Kyrie convinces him to resign.

I think Irving/Hayward/Horford/Davis would create beautiful basketball on both ends of the floor. I suppose Davis should work on his 3PT shot a bit but I don’t want him falling in love with it. Just take it when wide open like Al.
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