Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"

[nickagneta]

It's not complete insanity to think Kyrie might head to go play with Butler somewhere. They are clearly best bros and Butler has already turned down an extension with the TWolves.

I know C's fans are super defensive and protective about this but it's not like Kyrie has any ties to Boston. He's played a single season here and not even the playoffs. I guess fans just like the idea of having a "superstar" in Boston, but it's not 100% he's staying, which is fine.

C's can draft someone like Reddish to take the lead guard spot in the future and extend Scary Terry. It's not the end of the world if he leaves..

Shouldn't read anything into Kyrie and Butler turning down extensions. It makes financial sense for both to go to free agency, even if they just resign with their current teams, because they will make a boatload more money on their new contracts than they would on extensions.

[JHTruth]

It's not complete insanity to think Kyrie might head to go play with Butler somewhere. They are clearly best bros and Butler has already turned down an extension with the TWolves.

I know C's fans are super defensive and protective about this but it's not like Kyrie has any ties to Boston. He's played a single season here and not even the playoffs. I guess fans just like the idea of having a "superstar" in Boston, but it's not 100% he's staying, which is fine.

C's can draft someone like Reddish to take the lead guard spot in the future and extend Scary Terry. It's not the end of the world if he leaves..

Shouldn't read anything into Kyrie and Butler turning down extensions. It makes financial sense for both to go to free agency, even if they just resign with their current teams, because they will make a boatload more money on their new contracts than they would on extensions.

Well also with Butler he's come out with public statements about how he dislikes playing with KAT and Wiggins. I'd be stunned if he stayed with Minny.

[Moranis]

I think this is mostly dead time in the summer talk, but we can't forget that Minnesota was on the list of teams Irving was willing to be traded to.  That was because of Butler.  There are also pretty credible reports that before Butler was traded to Minnesota he let the Bulls know that Irving wanted out and that they should try to kick the tires with the Cavs (the Bulls probably rightly determined they didn't have the assets to acquire him so they went the rebuilding way instead). 

That said, just because they are friends doesn't mean much of anything when it comes to where somebody is going to play.

[johnnygreen]

I always like the idea of getting Butler, until I actually see him play. He almost reminds me of LeBron light, but without the playmaking ability and the giant ego. He needs the ball for far too long to be effective, and he seems to stall the offense. I just don't think Butler and Irving are a good mix, especially with Irving finally getting back his freedom to be a point guard again. Kyrie would have to be willing to meet in the middle, where he would be splitting time as a point guard and being a spot up shooter, if he wants to play with Butler. Then again, maybe I'm way off base, especially since I don't watch Butler playing on a nightly basis. I still think Kyrie signs an extension at the end of next season, when he is eligible for a super max.

[nickagneta]

I always like the idea of getting Butler, until I actually see him play. He almost reminds me of LeBron light, but without the playmaking ability and the giant ego. He needs the ball for far too long to be effective, and he seems to stall the offense. I just don't think Butler and Irving are a good mix, especially with Irving finally getting back his freedom to be a point guard again. Kyrie would have to be willing to meet in the middle, where he would be splitting time as a point guard and being a spot up shooter, if he wants to play with Butler. Then again, maybe I'm way off base, especially since I don't watch Butler playing on a nightly basis. I still think Kyrie signs an extension at the end of next season, when he is eligible for a super max.

Kyrie is not eligible for a supermax contract. He's not on the team that drafted him nor has he been on the All-NBA team any of the last 3 years.

[JHTruth]

I always like the idea of getting Butler, until I actually see him play. He almost reminds me of LeBron light, but without the playmaking ability and the giant ego. He needs the ball for far too long to be effective, and he seems to stall the offense. I just don't think Butler and Irving are a good mix, especially with Irving finally getting back his freedom to be a point guard again. Kyrie would have to be willing to meet in the middle, where he would be splitting time as a point guard and being a spot up shooter, if he wants to play with Butler. Then again, maybe I'm way off base, especially since I don't watch Butler playing on a nightly basis. I still think Kyrie signs an extension at the end of next season, when he is eligible for a super max.

Kyrie is not eligible for a supermax contract. He's not on the team that drafted him nor has he been on the All-NBA team any of the last 3 years.

Exactly. He would make less going to the Knicks but not AD-like less. Part of the reason he felt comfortable leaving the Cavs. Plus as a sort of NYer playing for the Knicks, his off-court revenue streams would no doubt increase..

[Sophomore]

We have to see how this season plays out.

If the Celtics make the finals (or win!) and everybody is happy, do we really think Kyrie is going to bolt to NYC? On the other hand, if there are injuries or chemistry problems and the team exits the playoffs early (spits, turns around three times, throws salt over shoulder to ward off disaster) maybe he might.

[JHTruth]

We have to see how this season plays out.

If the Celtics make the finals (or win!) and everybody is happy, do we really think Kyrie is going to bolt to NYC? On the other hand, if there are injuries or chemistry problems and the team exits the playoffs early (spits, turns around three times, throws salt over shoulder to ward off disaster) maybe he might.

If we win the Finals, I think it makes his departure MORE likely, not less. He would have two rings, hung a banner for the C's. He would feel no obligation to stay.

[Big333223]

When Kyrie Irving says "I want to play for another team," or makes a disparaging comment about Boston or about the Celtics, then I'll start worrying. Not before.

The best way to keep a player is to be a well run organization. Hopefully the Celtics are focused on that.

[Ed Hollison]

Yeah I also am not freaking out about Irving leaving. Most of the reports have either been to state the obvious (that Irving is friends with Butler, that he's from NJ, etc) or just speculative and expanding on existing reports.

He's the best player on one of the best teams in the league, with one of the brightest futures, led by one of the best coaches, in one of the country's top cities, playing with a guy he once recruited to play with him (Hayward) in Cleveland, and where he can make the most money. I understand he's friends with Jimmy Butler and all, but let's be reasonable.

[Sophomore]

We have to see how this season plays out.

If the Celtics make the finals (or win!) and everybody is happy, do we really think Kyrie is going to bolt to NYC? On the other hand, if there are injuries or chemistry problems and the team exits the playoffs early (spits, turns around three times, throws salt over shoulder to ward off disaster) maybe he might.

If we win the Finals, I think it makes his departure MORE likely, not less. He would have two rings, hung a banner for the C's. He would feel no obligation to stay.

Fair to say that I don't know what motivates him. Maybe he is thinking of that - trying to bring a championship to NYC, with Butler into the bargain.

If the year really blows up, I think he's more likely to go. He doesn't owe Boston anything and I doubt he thinks he has any obligations here. If he feels like NYC is his hometown and he can go there to play with someone he's determined to play with -- I think he showed us in Cleveland he'll leave a situation he doesn't like, and quick.

I'm also thinking that a successful year - not just in terms of bball achievements but team chemistry - might make Boston a place he wants to stay. Whatever his bond is to Butler, winning a championship on a team where the players (apparently) like each other and the culture could build some bonds here, and make for a situation he doesn't want to leave.

[SparzWizard]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but ESPN has a "summer forecast" piece out today that asks various analysts where Irving, Butler, and Durant will play next season. Amazingly they give a slightly higher probability that Irving is on the Knicks (46.9%) than he is on the Celtics (43.8%).

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24381454/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast-knicks-celtics-timberwolves

Many predicted that LeBron was on his way to the Lakers back in October 2017 and they were correct.

These rumors and chatters are some things to look out for.

[saltlover]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but ESPN has a "summer forecast" piece out today that asks various analysts where Irving, Butler, and Durant will play next season. Amazingly they give a slightly higher probability that Irving is on the Knicks (46.9%) than he is on the Celtics (43.8%).

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24381454/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast-knicks-celtics-timberwolves

Many predicted that LeBron was on his way to the Lakers back in October 2017 and they were correct.

These rumors and chatters are some things to look out for.

That’s all well and good, but, assuming they’re not letting Porzingis walk, the Knicks don’t even have the cap space for one max player, much less the two required by this “rumor”.  It will take a lot of cap gymnastics to get there, and require probably 2 1st round picks.  When the LeBron chatter happened, it was far easier to see, because they’d already cleared room for his salary, and there was a reasonable path for them to make room for an additional max player if necessary.  The Knicks are not in the same situation.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but ESPN has a "summer forecast" piece out today that asks various analysts where Irving, Butler, and Durant will play next season. Amazingly they give a slightly higher probability that Irving is on the Knicks (46.9%) than he is on the Celtics (43.8%).

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24381454/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast-knicks-celtics-timberwolves

Many predicted that LeBron was on his way to the Lakers back in October 2017 and they were correct.

These rumors and chatters are some things to look out for.

That’s all well and good, but, assuming they’re not letting Porzingis walk, the Knicks don’t even have the cap space for one max player, much less the two required by this “rumor”.  It will take a lot of cap gymnastics to get there, and require probably 2 1st round picks.  When the LeBron chatter happened, it was far easier to see, because they’d already cleared room for his salary, and there was a reasonable path for them to make room for an additional max player if necessary.  The Knicks are not in the same situation.

Saltlover -- thank-you.

It becomes even more tricky if they end up stretching Noah. Some of the situations I've run were based on the idea they could trade his contract, which is looking more and more impossible. If they stretch him, it adds about 7 million to their books, requiring that they trade Lee, Hardaway, Baker, and Knox (or Frankie) to even get close to two max slots.

And they'd be teaming up with a 7'3'' big man with leg problems. And they wouldn't have other significant players under contract.

It's a pipedream narrative driven by media in a slow off-season.

I think the Knicks decision about Noah will show whether they truly believe they can get top free agents next off-season. If they waive him, it probably shows they think they can only get one high level guy financially, which probably means they don't think they can get a superstar (Butler or Irving) because those superstars would want to play with another guy.

If they keep Noah, it might mean they think they could trade him instead of waiving him, which means they continue to hold out hope for two max-level slots.

[Moranis]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but ESPN has a "summer forecast" piece out today that asks various analysts where Irving, Butler, and Durant will play next season. Amazingly they give a slightly higher probability that Irving is on the Knicks (46.9%) than he is on the Celtics (43.8%).

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24381454/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast-knicks-celtics-timberwolves

Many predicted that LeBron was on his way to the Lakers back in October 2017 and they were correct.

These rumors and chatters are some things to look out for.

That’s all well and good, but, assuming they’re not letting Porzingis walk, the Knicks don’t even have the cap space for one max player, much less the two required by this “rumor”.  It will take a lot of cap gymnastics to get there, and require probably 2 1st round picks.  When the LeBron chatter happened, it was far easier to see, because they’d already cleared room for his salary, and there was a reasonable path for them to make room for an additional max player if necessary.  The Knicks are not in the same situation.

Saltlover -- thank-you.

It becomes even more tricky if they end up stretching Noah. Some of the situations I've run were based on the idea they could trade his contract, which is looking more and more impossible. If they stretch him, it adds about 7 million to their books, requiring that they trade Lee, Hardaway, Baker, and Knox (or Frankie) to even get close to two max slots.

And they'd be teaming up with a 7'3'' big man with leg problems. And they wouldn't have other significant players under contract.

It's a pipedream narrative driven by media in a slow off-season.

I think the Knicks decision about Noah will show whether they truly believe they can get top free agents next off-season. If they waive him, it probably shows they think they can only get one high level guy financially, which probably means they don't think they can get a superstar (Butler or Irving) because those superstars would want to play with another guy.

If they keep Noah, it might mean they think they could trade him instead of waiving him, which means they continue to hold out hope for two max-level slots.

Noah has always been their biggest problem.  I think they could clear the other guys (and expect them to move some of those guys during the season).