Author Topic: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"  (Read 15861 times)

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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #105 on: August 29, 2018, 06:14:04 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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This is all media driven nonsense....

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #106 on: August 29, 2018, 06:47:59 PM »

Offline Jon

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #107 on: August 29, 2018, 09:12:00 PM »

Offline Moranis

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also. 
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #108 on: August 29, 2018, 09:21:31 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #109 on: August 29, 2018, 09:44:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think Butler is every bit as great a player as Kyrie. Not top 5 player great but definitely top 12 or so. He is one of the better two way players in the game bringing it on both ends of the court. Some of us might be looking through very green tinted glasses.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #110 on: August 29, 2018, 09:46:42 PM »

Offline gouki88

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
Agree entirely GreenEnvy
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #111 on: August 30, 2018, 03:28:35 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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NYK is a disaster. Starts with Dolan, and works its way down. BOS has a much healthier organization. Kyrie's people must know this.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #112 on: August 30, 2018, 06:47:11 AM »

Offline Moranis

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
I said right now. Not some future possible peak. Right now Butler is the better player
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #113 on: August 30, 2018, 07:10:30 AM »

Offline Androslav

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
I said right now. Not some future possible peak. Right now Butler is the better player
That remains to be seen.
Butler's health is a big question, as he wasn't the same player after the mid-season injury.
Also worth mentioning, Thibs stars have "expiry date" before age 29.
Noah, Deng, Rose all succumbed by then due to his exploitations.
Jimmy will now enter his age 29 season, and it doesn't seem like Thibs will change his approach, while Jimmy will still play physical basketball.

I hope Jimmy does well, but Brown and Tatum are much safer bets at the moment. Younger, durable, more scalable (able to play with other great players without losing their production, efficiency or causing chemistry issues), they also play better off the ball as they can stroke 3's all day long.

God, please don't let Thibs crush KAT, it is like stomping a nice fragrant flower or ants.
Nothing useful, just a shame.
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #114 on: August 30, 2018, 08:37:21 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I am not that high on Butler.  He is a nice player.  If he and Kyrie team up in NY, it would be a very good start to a very good team but I don't see where he makes the Celtics better.  Is the idea to start him in place of Brown?  He is more experienced and overall probably better and more consistent for now but for how long?

I don't think we have a place for Butler if that is the idea here.  If we do any trade with any of our young prospects, it needs to be for a young big, not a veteran wing.

If the idea is that Butler is so good that he will draw Kyrie away, I don't buy that either.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #115 on: August 30, 2018, 09:16:16 AM »

Offline Jon

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
I said right now. Not some future possible peak. Right now Butler is the better player
That remains to be seen.
Butler's health is a big question, as he wasn't the same player after the mid-season injury.
Also worth mentioning, Thibs stars have "expiry date" before age 29.
Noah, Deng, Rose all succumbed by then due to his exploitations.
Jimmy will now enter his age 29 season, and it doesn't seem like Thibs will change his approach, while Jimmy will still play physical basketball.

I hope Jimmy does well, but Brown and Tatum are much safer bets at the moment. Younger, durable, more scalable (able to play with other great players without losing their production, efficiency or causing chemistry issues), they also play better off the ball as they can stroke 3's all day long.

God, please don't let Thibs crush KAT, it is like stomping a nice fragrant flower or ants.
Nothing useful, just a shame.

With my original comment I was comparing Butler to Horford, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown collectively. One could say that Butler is better than any of that group (though I think most would agree Tatum has a higher ceiling), but if Kyrie leaves he’s betting that he and Butler can put a lineup around them good enough to be better than what he has now on the Celtics. And that’s a bad bet, especially since Kyrie, LeBron, and Love were barely enough to get by the Warriors once. And Butler isn’t in the same universe as LeBron.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #116 on: August 30, 2018, 09:47:12 AM »

Offline Moranis

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
I said right now. Not some future possible peak. Right now Butler is the better player
That remains to be seen.
Butler's health is a big question, as he wasn't the same player after the mid-season injury.
Also worth mentioning, Thibs stars have "expiry date" before age 29.
Noah, Deng, Rose all succumbed by then due to his exploitations.
Jimmy will now enter his age 29 season, and it doesn't seem like Thibs will change his approach, while Jimmy will still play physical basketball.

I hope Jimmy does well, but Brown and Tatum are much safer bets at the moment. Younger, durable, more scalable (able to play with other great players without losing their production, efficiency or causing chemistry issues), they also play better off the ball as they can stroke 3's all day long.

God, please don't let Thibs crush KAT, it is like stomping a nice fragrant flower or ants.
Nothing useful, just a shame.

With my original comment I was comparing Butler to Horford, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown collectively. One could say that Butler is better than any of that group (though I think most would agree Tatum has a higher ceiling), but if Kyrie leaves he’s betting that he and Butler can put a lineup around them good enough to be better than what he has now on the Celtics. And that’s a bad bet, especially since Kyrie, LeBron, and Love were barely enough to get by the Warriors once. And Butler isn’t in the same universe as LeBron.
if it is the Knicks, then they would also have Porzingis and probably Knox, Frankie N., and their high lottery pick from this year (though they may have to move some of the young players to clear the cap room).  If it is the Nets then they could also be joining Durant.  Any of those teams in those situations could be better positioned to win a title over the next couple of seasons. 
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #117 on: August 30, 2018, 10:08:58 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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This just seems so preposterous to me. Jimmy Butler is good, but if he was the type of star that could unite with Kyrie to challenge the Warriors, his Bulls and Wolves teams would have been better.

No way that Irving leaves Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and Brown to team up with a second tier star at best.
right now Butler is better than all of those guys and frankly if the Zinger gets healthy he might be also.

Wrong, as usual.

Brown and Tatum have to be considered better prospects than KP, Hayward and Horford can both carry a team more than Butler can.

Butler is very overrated, a beta.
I said right now. Not some future possible peak. Right now Butler is the better player
That remains to be seen.
Butler's health is a big question, as he wasn't the same player after the mid-season injury.
Also worth mentioning, Thibs stars have "expiry date" before age 29.
Noah, Deng, Rose all succumbed by then due to his exploitations.
Jimmy will now enter his age 29 season, and it doesn't seem like Thibs will change his approach, while Jimmy will still play physical basketball.

I hope Jimmy does well, but Brown and Tatum are much safer bets at the moment. Younger, durable, more scalable (able to play with other great players without losing their production, efficiency or causing chemistry issues), they also play better off the ball as they can stroke 3's all day long.

God, please don't let Thibs crush KAT, it is like stomping a nice fragrant flower or ants.
Nothing useful, just a shame.

With my original comment I was comparing Butler to Horford, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown collectively. One could say that Butler is better than any of that group (though I think most would agree Tatum has a higher ceiling), but if Kyrie leaves he’s betting that he and Butler can put a lineup around them good enough to be better than what he has now on the Celtics. And that’s a bad bet, especially since Kyrie, LeBron, and Love were barely enough to get by the Warriors once. And Butler isn’t in the same universe as LeBron.
if it is the Knicks, then they would also have Porzingis and probably Knox, Frankie N., and their high lottery pick from this year (though they may have to move some of the young players to clear the cap room).  If it is the Nets then they could also be joining Durant.  Any of those teams in those situations could be better positioned to win a title over the next couple of seasons.

If the Knicks stretch Noah, they will not have enough money for two max guys, even if they can trade Hardaway, Lee, Baker, and one of their young guys.

Knox, Robinson, and Frankie all look like NBA players, but I'm not sure they are anywhere near upper-level talent. They're nice pieces, but I don't think any of them are all-stars.

On top of that, there are legit concerns about Zinger's long-term health. Is he a player you want to hitch your wagon to?

The Nets thing may be different. Eventually, I think the Nets are going to be good and going to be a FA destination. That may happen next off-season or in the future, but it will happen.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #118 on: August 30, 2018, 10:14:48 AM »

Online hpantazo

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I think Kyrie stays in Boston, but this non-committal stance at the moment goes both ways imo.

Do the Celtics want to give him a max deal if his knee issue flares up again this season and he misses the playoffs yet again? Of if he shows that he's a great player but not a leader of a legit contender during our upcoming playoff run? Ainge could decide its best to keep Rozier, let Kyrie walk, and use that money elsewhere if thats the case.

Kyrie may be hesitant to publicly commit because Ainge may have already told him you gotta prove it to us that you are THE guy for the future for this team. You missed the playoffs which has happened before with you, we gotta see you do it.