Cowen's Celtics in Today's NBA

[Kuberski33]

Put Cowens in his prime in today's NBA and is he the best center in the game?  Think about it. He played Kareem in his prime as well as anyone - back when Kareem was considered unstoppable. Offensively, who compares to that today?  Certainly not Dwight Howard.

Plus Cowens would have defended the high pick & roll as well as anyone.

Also consider how the center position declined in terms of offensive contributions.  The strengths of Cowens offensive game have already been mentioned.  He would have developed into a very good 3 pt shooter, plus his passing ability would be a serious weapon today.

Conclusion - Cowens would be the best center in the game right now....though we're also probably in the weakest era of centers that I can ever remember.

[2short]

Put Cowens in his prime in today's NBA and is he the best center in the game?  Think about it. He played Kareem in his prime as well as anyone - back when Kareem was considered unstoppable. Offensively, who compares to that today?  Certainly not Dwight Howard.

Plus Cowens would have defended the high pick & roll as well as anyone.

Also consider how the center position declined in terms of offensive contributions.  The strengths of Cowens offensive game have already been mentioned.  He would have developed into a very good 3 pt shooter, plus his passing ability would be a serious weapon today.

Conclusion - Cowens would be the best center in the game right now....though we're also probably in the weakest era of centers that I can ever remember.

agree on the center era, seems to be the point guard era
however maybe we'll get to see better all around players at center who might only be 6'9" or 10" (horford et)

[TitleMaster]

Cowens was a natural power forward but he could play either the 4 or 5.

I suspect that today, he'd be better than Stoudamire and to some extent, a better defender than Duncan, even during Duncan's prime. Duncan may get more points but if memory serves correct, when Cowens wasn't asked to defend Kareem all 4 quarters in '74, he shot the lights out.

All and all, Cowens only near equal, in terms of size, shape, and effectiveness was Wes Unseld of the Bullets. They were basically the same type of player and neither of them exist in the league anymore.

[Greenbean]

There is not a player in the current NBA that can be fairly compared to Dave Cowens

Not one

Not one player in the current NBA mixes the toughness, rebounding ability, tenacity, low post offensive moves, defensive ability and ability to run the break that Cowens had

And he's right about running current teams out of the building

For all the weight lifting and diet science and possible PEDs and size and strength of today's NBA players, the players of the 70's, especially those in fast break systems like the Celtics had, had such superior cardio-vascular training and ability it's comical

The walk it up pacing and half court offenses of today would be blitzed by those teams ability to run, run, run, run every moment of the game

Today's teams would be sucking oxygen by mid way through the third quarter

Yes!!!!!!!

This post is perfect. it should be framed.

In another thread about the Celtics using the 2nd unit as a pressing team, Rick Pitino came up.

I mentioned that his team hated him because he ran them into the ground trying to get them in shape to be a pressing team and that his players resented him for that.

What I realized in writing that is that Doc is completely the opposite. He is a players coach and I dont think he works them enough. Their conditioning seems terrible to me, even the young guys. I think this could have something to do with the lackluster 2nd halfs of games.

Now I know there have been alot of injuries that could keep guys out of shape, but guys like Perk, Rondo, Sheed, etc. guys that have been relatively healthy all year should be in optimum shape by now. They are far from it and look gassed after spurts of fast paced intense basketball.

Obviously Doc will not change his philosophy now but I just hope these guys can figure out a way to play hard enough for 48 minutes in the playoffs.

They keep talking about execution and focus for 48 minutes. How about having enough wind and legs for the whole game?

[Greenbean]

There is not a player in the current NBA that can be fairly compared to Dave Cowens

Not one

Not one player in the current NBA mixes the toughness, rebounding ability, tenacity, low post offensive moves, defensive ability and ability to run the break that Cowens had

And he's right about running current teams out of the building

For all the weight lifting and diet science and possible PEDs and size and strength of today's NBA players, the players of the 70's, especially those in fast break systems like the Celtics had, had such superior cardio-vascular training and ability it's comical

The walk it up pacing and half court offenses of today would be blitzed by those teams ability to run, run, run, run every moment of the game

Today's teams would be sucking oxygen by mid way through the third quarter

Plus the quick long passes. Those Celtics teams could move the ball better than any team today. The rules are now made for soft players. Those 70s and 80s guys were hard as nails. I'd love to see Cowens working Howard. Cowens was a great player in a time of great players. There's like 20 great players playing now and some of them are pass there prime.

You have that backwards. The talent was diluted in the 70's. The talent level right now in the NBA is very high.

Edit: The talent was diluted for the first half of the 70's before the merger.

[PLamb]

There is not a player in the current NBA that can be fairly compared to Dave Cowens

Not one

Not one player in the current NBA mixes the toughness, rebounding ability, tenacity, low post offensive moves, defensive ability and ability to run the break that Cowens had

And he's right about running current teams out of the building

For all the weight lifting and diet science and possible PEDs and size and strength of today's NBA players, the players of the 70's, especially those in fast break systems like the Celtics had, had such superior cardio-vascular training and ability it's comical

The walk it up pacing and half court offenses of today would be blitzed by those teams ability to run, run, run, run every moment of the game

Today's teams would be sucking oxygen by mid way through the third quarter

Yes!!!!!!!

This post is perfect. it should be framed.

In another thread about the Celtics using the 2nd unit as a pressing team, Rick Pitino came up.

I mentioned that his team hated him because he ran them into the ground trying to get them in shape to be a pressing team and that his players resented him for that.

What I realized in writing that is that Doc is completely the opposite. He is a players coach and I dont think he works them enough. Their conditioning seems terrible to me, even the young guys. I think this could have something to do with the lackluster 2nd halfs of games.

Now I know there have been alot of injuries that could keep guys out of shape, but guys like Perk, Rondo, Sheed, etc. guys that have been relatively healthy all year should be in optimum shape by now. They are far from it and look gassed after spurts of fast paced intense basketball.

Obviously Doc will not change his philosophy now but I just hope these guys can figure out a way to play hard enough for 48 minutes in the playoffs.

They keep talking about execution and focus for 48 minutes. How about having enough wind and legs for the whole game?

Well said about the C's conditioning and as much as people will argue until they are blue in the face about today's athletes, the basketball athletes of the 60's, 70's and early 80's had long distance runner/sprinter type cardio abilities

I think talent was about the same in that each era had the same amount of truly great players

It's just that in the 70's there were less teams and hence more great players per team than there is now

[Greenbean]

Well said about the C's conditioning and as much as people will argue until they are blue in the face about today's athletes, the basketball athletes of the 60's, 70's and early 80's had long distance runner/sprinter type cardio abilities

I think talent was about the same in that each era had the same amount of truly great players

It's just that in the 70's there were less teams and hence more great players per team than there is now

Right. Somewhere along the line, basketball moved to a sport similar to football. Short explosive burts. Slow pace (relatively) and focus on athleticism rather than rythym , synchronicity, and team play.

If I lived in Phoenix a couple of years ago, I would have bought season tickets just to get a glimpse of how basketball should be played. Even that wasn't a complete throwback team. Even the Suns would get run out of 1970's NBA gyms.

What would it take to get back to that style of play? It kind of makes me curious what Mike D'Antoni would do with LeBron if he goes to New York. You have the leagues marquis player playing for a coach who likes the fast paced throwback offense. It could really shake things up in the league.
It would take complete buy in from all of the leagues top players to start playing like that and conditioning their bodies for that style of play. LeBron leading the charge would certainly go a long way.

[cornbreadsmart]

teams do not break like they used to because the defenses do not allow it to happen as much. if you want to compare talent compare ball handling ability. the talent level today is way ahead of back then in my opinion.