ESPN Sportscenter Teaser..Red Sox on verge of trading Manny

[Chris]

This was my feeling up until a few days ago.  However, now I have pulled a complete 180.  After seeing this team flounder, and look like a total sinking ship, while Manny keeps trying to make the hole in the hull grow bigger and bigger, I have come to the conclusion that I can't see this team going anywhere with Manny this year.  The bridges have been burned.

To me, the only chance to actually save the season is to get rid of Manny, and hope the new blood livens up the rest of the crew.

I concur 100%.  I've always been a big Manny supporter, but the recent actions have reached the point of no return, I think.

If the deal is Jason Bay + prospects, I'm okay with that.  If it's Jason Bay + we give up prospects, I'm not a fan.

Yup, thats my feeling about the deal as well (although it depends on who the prospects are...if they are C level prospects, then I couldn't care less if we give them up).

Right now I am trying to decide if I would prefer Bay, or Hermida and prospects.  From all I have read and seen, Hermida is one of the top young outfield prospects in the game, and might be better value than Bay.  And if the prospects include Mike Stanton, then I would really lean towards the prospects over Bay, because I think he is the type of power prospect the sox lack.

Yeah, Stanton would be huge.  Last I read, though, Florida refuses to give him up.

And I agree, it definitely depends upon who these prospects are that we're sending.  I'd prefer holding on to even some of our second-tier guys like Hansen and Bard, though, even if the luster has seemed to wear off of them.

has the shine really come off Bard? i thought i heard he was throwing over 100 this year....

I don't think so, I think its just where you draw the line between A and B prospects. 

Here is where I would break up the sox higher level (meaning AA, AAA, and part time MLB) prospects:

A
Bowden
Andersen
Bucholtz

B
Lowry
Bard
Reddick
Moss
Hansen

C
Chris Carter
Hunter Jones
Edgar Martinez

I think the A prospects are close to untouchable, unless it is for an absolute superstar, B's can be had for the right price, and C's will be thrown into a deal without thinking twice.

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't think so, I think its just where you draw the line between A and B prospects. 

Here is where I would break up the sox higher level (meaning AA, AAA, and part time MLB) prospects:

A
Bowden
Andersen
Bucholtz

B
Lowry
Bard
Reddick
Moss
Hansen

C
Chris Carter
Hunter Jones
Edgar Martinez

I think the A prospects are close to untouchable, unless it is for an absolute superstar, B's can be had for the right price, and C's will be thrown into a deal without thinking twice.

That's probably right.  There was a time, though, when certainly Hansen, and probably Bard, were considered "A" prospects.  The fact that they're near the same value as Brandon Moss -- who will be a bench player in the majors -- says to me that they don't have the same shine they did as when they were drafted.

[Mean Gerald Green]

How's that Matt Holliday trade I proposed the other day lookin now? Believe it got torn apart by a few of you.

Now we end up with Jason Bay, a solid 2nd or 3rd outfielder...we pay all of Manny's salary, and give up a prospect.

I personally don't like the deal because I believe we can kiss the playoffs goodbye, but we'll see how Bay works out if this all goes down. I trust the Red Sox know what they're doing.

Would have much rather had Matt Holliday for obvious reasons.

On another quick note...my favorite player and in my opinion the greatest player ever Ken Griffey Jr. is going to one of my least favorite teams the Chicago White Sox...this day is shaping up to be a total bummer.

[huzy]

Taken from Jason Stark, ESPN.com

"It now looks as if the Rays won't make a deal of any kind between now and the deadline. According to sources who have spoken with them, they've backed off on Adam Dunn because he makes their lineup too left-handed, and they've been informed by Pittsburgh that Jason Bay is likely to go somewhere else."

Unless someone else jumped in for Jason Bay, it looks like this thing could be happening...

[Donoghus]

How's that Matt Holliday trade I proposed the other day lookin now? Believe it got torn apart by a few of you.

Now we end up with Jason Bay, a solid 2nd or 3rd outfielder...we pay all of Manny's salary, and give up a prospect.

I personally don't like the deal because I believe we can kiss the playoffs goodbye, but we'll see how Bay works out if this all goes down. I trust the Red Sox know what they're doing.

Would have much rather had Matt Holliday for obvious reasons.

On another quick note...my favorite player and in my opinion the greatest player ever Ken Griffey Jr. is going to one of my least favorite teams the Chicago White Sox...this day is shaping up to be a total bummer.

I like Holliday myself but Colorado is not trading him.  They're only 7 games out of 1st in the weakest division in baseball.  They've won like 10 out of their last 13 and after last year's finish, I have to think that they think they have a legitimate shot so they're keeping Holliday.

[Mean Gerald Green]

I don't think so, I think its just where you draw the line between A and B prospects. 

Here is where I would break up the sox higher level (meaning AA, AAA, and part time MLB) prospects:

A
Bowden
Andersen
Bucholtz

B
Lowry
Bard
Reddick
Moss
Hansen

C
Chris Carter
Hunter Jones
Edgar Martinez

I think the A prospects are close to untouchable, unless it is for an absolute superstar, B's can be had for the right price, and C's will be thrown into a deal without thinking twice.

That's probably right.  There was a time, though, when certainly Hansen, and probably Bard, were considered "A" prospects.  The fact that they're near the same value as Brandon Moss -- who will be a bench player in the majors -- says to me that they don't have the same shine they did as when they were drafted.

I agree with your analysis Roy, I still have some hope for Bard... and Hansen teases us with those flashes of dominance, but I'm just not sure he has that 'it' factor that steady pitchers in the majors need.

We've seen Lester develop that type of confidence on the mound this season that Hansen needs. I just don't think Hansen has it in him. He'll be a journeyman in this league over the next 5 or 6 years, much like Brandon Moss.

[Chris]

I don't think so, I think its just where you draw the line between A and B prospects. 

Here is where I would break up the sox higher level (meaning AA, AAA, and part time MLB) prospects:

A
Bowden
Andersen
Bucholtz

B
Lowry
Bard
Reddick
Moss
Hansen

C
Chris Carter
Hunter Jones
Edgar Martinez

I think the A prospects are close to untouchable, unless it is for an absolute superstar, B's can be had for the right price, and C's will be thrown into a deal without thinking twice.

That's probably right.  There was a time, though, when certainly Hansen, and probably Bard, were considered "A" prospects.  The fact that they're near the same value as Brandon Moss -- who will be a bench player in the majors -- says to me that they don't have the same shine they did as when they were drafted.

I agree with your analysis Roy, I still have some hope for Bard... and Hansen teases us with those flashes of dominance, but I'm just not sure he has that 'it' factor that steady pitchers in the majors need.

We've seen Lester develop that type of confidence on the mound this season that Hansen needs. I just don't think Hansen has it in him. He'll be a journeyman in this league over the next 5 or 6 years, much like Brandon Moss.

What worries me (it actually worries me as much about Bucholtz as anyone else) is that "it" is something that Lester always had.  Even his first season, he made a nasty habit of loading the bases, just to find a way to get out of the jam.  So it makes me wonder if that is something that someone can gain over time...or maybe Lester is just that special.

[Timbaland7]

Craig Hanson = Kyle Farnsworth.  He'll have a very bumpy career where he will dominate for a  few months, and then get blown up for a few weeks.

If he could ever turn it around, he could be the top setup man in baseball.  Personally, I think they should try him as a starter.

[Mean Gerald Green]

How's that Matt Holliday trade I proposed the other day lookin now? Believe it got torn apart by a few of you.

Now we end up with Jason Bay, a solid 2nd or 3rd outfielder...we pay all of Manny's salary, and give up a prospect.

I personally don't like the deal because I believe we can kiss the playoffs goodbye, but we'll see how Bay works out if this all goes down. I trust the Red Sox know what they're doing.

Would have much rather had Matt Holliday for obvious reasons.

On another quick note...my favorite player and in my opinion the greatest player ever Ken Griffey Jr. is going to one of my least favorite teams the Chicago White Sox...this day is shaping up to be a total bummer.

I like Holliday myself but Colorado is not trading him.  They're only 7 games out of 1st in the weakest division in baseball.  They've won like 10 out of their last 13 and after last year's finish, I have to think that they think they have a legitimate shot so they're keeping Holliday.

Yea they're keeping Holliday. I believe they'll move him next year at the deadline though if they don't lock him up longterm in the offseason. He'll be the biggest bat on the market at the deadline which should increase his value.

The deal I proposed kept the Rockies relevant in the near future (probably not this season however) as they would have ended up with Fernando Martinez and a smaller pitching prospect from our system. It went something like this:

Sox get Holliday
Mets get Manny
Rockies get Fernando Martinez and a prospect along the lines of Daniel Bard

[Mean Gerald Green]

I don't think so, I think its just where you draw the line between A and B prospects. 

Here is where I would break up the sox higher level (meaning AA, AAA, and part time MLB) prospects:

A
Bowden
Andersen
Bucholtz

B
Lowry
Bard
Reddick
Moss
Hansen

C
Chris Carter
Hunter Jones
Edgar Martinez

I think the A prospects are close to untouchable, unless it is for an absolute superstar, B's can be had for the right price, and C's will be thrown into a deal without thinking twice.

That's probably right.  There was a time, though, when certainly Hansen, and probably Bard, were considered "A" prospects.  The fact that they're near the same value as Brandon Moss -- who will be a bench player in the majors -- says to me that they don't have the same shine they did as when they were drafted.

I agree with your analysis Roy, I still have some hope for Bard... and Hansen teases us with those flashes of dominance, but I'm just not sure he has that 'it' factor that steady pitchers in the majors need.

We've seen Lester develop that type of confidence on the mound this season that Hansen needs. I just don't think Hansen has it in him. He'll be a journeyman in this league over the next 5 or 6 years, much like Brandon Moss.

What worries me (it actually worries me as much about Bucholtz as anyone else) is that "it" is something that Lester always had.  Even his first season, he made a nasty habit of loading the bases, just to find a way to get out of the jam.  So it makes me wonder if that is something that someone can gain over time...or maybe Lester is just that special.

One of the Sox pitchers needs to take Buchholz under his wing and work with him on his command and presence on the mound. Kind of like Schilling did with Lester.

Having someone show you the ropes can be as important as having filthy stuff in the majors. We all know Buchholz possesses the pitches to be a dominant force in the rotation, he just needs the mindset to go along with them. It would be nice to see Beckett work with him a bit.

[Nerf DPOY]

If they can get Bay without parting with a top 5 prospect, I'm actaually liking this deal alot. Given Bay's modest salary through '09, this gives the 'Sox the flexibility to

1 Go after an FA this year, next, or just resign Bay. I mean at any position. And

2 Wait another year to see what they have in Reddick. As either Bay's replacement or trade bait. I'm not optimistic about Reddick ever developing into a middle of the order slugger, but if he can give us good value in LF for 6 years and we can sink our money into another position of need down the road.....well I 'm getting ahead of myself here.....

[Mean Gerald Green]

If they can get Bay without parting with a top 5 prospect, I'm actaually liking this deal alot. Given Bay's modest salary through '09, this gives the 'Sox the flexibility to

1 Go after an FA this year, next, or just resign Bay. I mean at any position. And

2 Wait another year to see what they have in Reddick. As either Bay's replacement or trade bait. I'm not optimistic about Reddick ever developing into a middle of the order slugger, but if he can give us good value in LF for 6 years and we can sink our money into another position of need down the road.....well I 'm getting ahead of myself here.....

I still have higher hopes for Lars Anderson as that middle of the order slugger. Would be great if he could develop into a Justin Morneau type with a slightly higher K rate.

If the Sox trade for Bay I'd be surprised if they don't resign him to a deal after next season and use Reddick as trade bait.

This trade works out if the Sox plan on using Manny's money and taking a run at Sabathia.

[winsomme]

I don't think so, I think its just where you draw the line between A and B prospects. 

Here is where I would break up the sox higher level (meaning AA, AAA, and part time MLB) prospects:

A
Bowden
Andersen
Bucholtz

B
Lowry
Bard
Reddick
Moss
Hansen

C
Chris Carter
Hunter Jones
Edgar Martinez

I think the A prospects are close to untouchable, unless it is for an absolute superstar, B's can be had for the right price, and C's will be thrown into a deal without thinking twice.

That's probably right.  There was a time, though, when certainly Hansen, and probably Bard, were considered "A" prospects.  The fact that they're near the same value as Brandon Moss -- who will be a bench player in the majors -- says to me that they don't have the same shine they did as when they were drafted.

if it's true that Bard has dropped down some, i'm not sure i see the logic.

i actually would love to see him come up and take Hansen's spot because he HAS to go work on his control and the bullpen needs some new blood.

if Bard really is throwing over 100 mph it could be just the jolt that they need down there....

[Mean Gerald Green]

ESPN saying the deal is dead due to the Marlins wanting more prospects. Kind of absurd after the Sox would've have been paying all of Manny's salary.

[Nerf DPOY]

If they can get Bay without parting with a top 5 prospect, I'm actaually liking this deal alot. Given Bay's modest salary through '09, this gives the 'Sox the flexibility to

1 Go after an FA this year, next, or just resign Bay. I mean at any position. And

2 Wait another year to see what they have in Reddick. As either Bay's replacement or trade bait. I'm not optimistic about Reddick ever developing into a middle of the order slugger, but if he can give us good value in LF for 6 years and we can sink our money into another position of need down the road.....well I 'm getting ahead of myself here.....

I still have higher hopes for Lars Anderson as that middle of the order slugger. Would be great if he could develop into a Justin Morneau type with a slightly higher K rate.

If the Sox trade for Bay I'd be surprised if they don't resign him to a deal after next season and use Reddick as trade bait.

This trade works out if the Sox plan on using Manny's money and taking a run at Sabathia.

Sabbathia was exactly who I had in mind when I posted the part about the flexibility. If I was to pick one big name in the 08 or 09 FA class, I'd definitely choose him over Teixeira or Holliday, then take my chances in Left. I wonder if there's an actual budget; for instance, if the Sox go after Sabbathia then they don't extend Bay for big money the year after.