Okafor - The Ringer (article)

[tankcity!]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

Not everyone acknowledges it. I don't recall any scouts really being concerned about his d. Anyways, it's hard for me to take what he did in college seriously. We'll just have to wait and see this year. I think he will prove to be a good defender and you don't.

[tankcity!]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Mostly he didn't. In the lineup most familiar to fans, it was Byron Scott who took the 1's.

Read through the board, that was my point. You can hide Magic, then you can hide Simmons.

Second point was that imo he is more athletic than Johnson so he should be fine on D.

So either way, Simmons should be fine and that was my point kind sir.

I would certainly agree that he's got terrific potential as a defender.

In the modern game it's not usually possible to hide a poor defender.

I agree that he'll be fine, on both ends.

My point is that they'll probably need to trade a couple of bigs.

I think this is pretty widely accepted beyond a few really vocal posters on this board.
If we see Saric, Simmons, Noel and Okafor spend a lot of time on the court together
I will eat my hat. It might sort of work in NBA2K but it wont work on a real basketball court.

Please don't include me on that list. I think they are desperate to trade one of their bigs...

[ThePaintedArea]

Try to make a note of the people that would rather KO or Marcus Smart over Okafor. It makes things easier in the future to poop on them when they say your nuts.

Not nuts.  But those two players are better fits for the way that Boston plays than Okafor is.  That he's got glaring weaknesses when it comes to keeping the ball moving and playing acceptable team defense doesn't help.

BUT NBA PLAYERS ARE NOT SOLELY JODGED ON THEIR ROOKIE SEASONS, and Okafor has physical advantages and skills that the others do not have.

Very true on all points.  Probably he'll be better this upcoming season.

Towns/KP/Turner: all adjusted better to certain NBA styles bc they are not as physically strong as Okafor and so their ages and weaknesses were better suited for the first year in the league. Also they each had better teams and legit scorers on each team.

Can't understand your argument here.  He sucked, frankly; even though they designed the offense around him, they were a better offensive team with him on the bench (they were also a better defensive team with him on the bench, but presumably you would concede that).

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

They need to move either Noel or Okafor, then their roster shakes out fine.

You get 30-32 mins from Whichever of them they keep, Embiid gets 10-15 initially and they might try a few weird small ball lineups in the filler.

The 3-4 looks like Simmons 30, Covington 30, Saric with 24, and Grant at maybe 12 with 5 or so mins at small ball 5.

The guard rotation is pretty straight forward with 5 guys who need time in Bayless, Henderson, Luwawawhatever, McConnell and Rodriguez.

[Celtics18]

After reading through this thread, I wanted to ask a clarifying question.

What defines a player's position?

Growing up and learning the game I was taught that there was an archetype for each position, centers were low post rim protectors, point guards ran the offense, ect.

Now, the game has transitioned away from these archetypes to a positionless style that hinges on every position being able to be multidimensional. With the relaxing of the defensive 3 seconds rule and the removal of hand checking almost every player has become perimeter oriented.

Today each position demands that players be able to play on the perimeter, so the offensive archetypes really don't hold water anymore. This is why, I judge positions by what position a player can guard rather than their traditional archetype.

To tie this back to the discussion, no matter how well Simmons can handle the ball he will never be a point guard, because he can not defend point guards. He can be a point forward that runs the offense but he will always be a 4.

This is why the Sixers big man log jam is problematic for Philly. If you think of positions based on who players guard the log jam becomes more clear
Embiid and Okafor can only guard 5's
Noel is best at the 5 but can also guard 4's
Saric is best at the 4 but can also guard 3's
Covington is best at the 4 but can also guard 3's
Holmes is best at the 4 but can also guard some smaller 5's
Simmons didn't show the ability to guard anyone in college but it's likely he's best guarding the 4.

So you have 7 guys who are best played at the 4 or the 5. This doesn't mean they have to make a deal immediately, since Embiid's health is a question,  and Okafor still is recovering from his injury they could ease those two Simmons and Saric into playing time. However, at some point they need to make a move.

TP.  They seem to be in desperate need of a player who guards opposing point guards at an elite level and plays as an off the ball shooter on offense.

Where could they find a guy like that? 

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

After reading through this thread, I wanted to ask a clarifying question.

What defines a player's position?

Growing up and learning the game I was taught that there was an archetype for each position, centers were low post rim protectors, point guards ran the offense, ect.

Now, the game has transitioned away from these archetypes to a positionless style that hinges on every position being able to be multidimensional. With the relaxing of the defensive 3 seconds rule and the removal of hand checking almost every player has become perimeter oriented.

Today each position demands that players be able to play on the perimeter, so the offensive archetypes really don't hold water anymore. This is why, I judge positions by what position a player can guard rather than their traditional archetype.

To tie this back to the discussion, no matter how well Simmons can handle the ball he will never be a point guard, because he can not defend point guards. He can be a point forward that runs the offense but he will always be a 4.

This is why the Sixers big man log jam is problematic for Philly. If you think of positions based on who players guard the log jam becomes more clear
Embiid and Okafor can only guard 5's
Noel is best at the 5 but can also guard 4's
Saric is best at the 4 but can also guard 3's
Covington is best at the 4 but can also guard 3's
Holmes is best at the 4 but can also guard some smaller 5's
Simmons didn't show the ability to guard anyone in college but it's likely he's best guarding the 4.

So you have 7 guys who are best played at the 4 or the 5. This doesn't mean they have to make a deal immediately, since Embiid's health is a question,  and Okafor still is recovering from his injury they could ease those two Simmons and Saric into playing time. However, at some point they need to make a move.

TP.  They seem to be in desperate need of a player who guards opposing point guards at an elite level and plays as an off the ball shooter on offense.

Where could they find a guy like that?

The Celtics have exactly one of those guys... I'm not sure that giving him up makes sense.

[ThePaintedArea]

They need to move either Noel or Okafor, then their roster shakes out fine.

Or both.

You get 30-32 mins from Whichever of them they keep, Embiid gets 10-15 initially and they might try a few weird small ball lineups in the filler.

They had Richaun Holmes playing about 2/3 of his minutes at 5 as well, and productively.  If Embiid is healthy, I'd trade both Noel and Okafor

The 3-4 looks like Simmons 30, Covington 30, Saric with 24, and Grant at maybe 12 with 5 or so mins at small ball 5.

So... you're trading Carl Landry and, again, leaving out Richaun Holmes?  Also, it looks as though you're saying they'll play Grant as a small ball 5?!! - but I can't tell what else you might mean. Also, it's unlikely that they'll give Simmons minutes at 3, if they're serious about running the offense through him.

The guard rotation is pretty straight forward with 5 guys who need time in Bayless, Henderson, Luwawawhatever, McConnell and Rodriguez.

I've heard that Luwawu will play in Europe.  Is that wrong?  Certainly, it looks as though there's a spot for him on the Sixers.

[Beat LA]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

Not everyone acknowledges it. I don't recall any scouts really being concerned about his d. Anyways, it's hard for me to take what he did in college seriously. We'll just have to wait and see this year. I think he will prove to be a good defender and you don't.

Unless you're talking about a certain appendage , ahaha , I'm pretty sure that Okafor's defense was seen as a major weakness coming out of college, but I'm probably wrong .

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

They need to move either Noel or Okafor, then their roster shakes out fine.

Or both.

You get 30-32 mins from Whichever of them they keep, Embiid gets 10-15 initially and they might try a few weird small ball lineups in the filler.

They had Richaun Holmes playing about 2/3 of his minutes at 5 as well, and productively.  If Embiid is healthy, I'd trade both Noel and Okafor

The 3-4 looks like Simmons 30, Covington 30, Saric with 24, and Grant at maybe 12 with 5 or so mins at small ball 5.

So... you're trading Carl Landry and, again, leaving out Richaun Holmes?  Also, it looks as though you're saying they'll play Grant as a small ball 5?!! - but I can't tell what else you might mean. Also, it's unlikely that they'll give Simmons minutes at 3, if they're serious about running the offense through him.

The guard rotation is pretty straight forward with 5 guys who need time in Bayless, Henderson, Luwawawhatever, McConnell and Rodriguez.

I've heard that Luwawu will play in Europe.  Is that wrong?  Certainly, it looks as though there's a spot for him on the Sixers.

Just to clarify a few things, when I say 3-4 I mean the position on defense. If Simmons and Saric share the floor you can basically run a 4 out with Simmons initiating the offense because Saric can shoot(in Europe anyways) and on D Simmons can hang on the 3 IMO. But I wasn't clear on that, my bad.

Luwawu is signed, he's playing in Philly. They drafted a kid Korkmaz whose buyout looks prohibitive for 2 years or so. He might be who you're thinking of.

I think Grant should get a look at small ball five in a blitzing, transition style line up. He can protect the rim, but needs to work on rebounding worth a shot. Run out Henderson, Simmons, Convington, Saric and Grant and just go. Plus you can basically switch everything. Will it work? Who knows, but when it's July and you're already eliminated from the playoffs it's worth experimenting.

To me Holmes and Landry will get minutes when they get them, Holmes can't grab a DReb to save his life. He's bouncy and fun, but has a long way to go.

I wouldn't trade both Oak and Noel until you have a full season of health from Embiid.

[ThePaintedArea]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

Not everyone acknowledges it. I don't recall any scouts really being concerned about his d. Anyways, it's hard for me to take what he did in college seriously. We'll just have to wait and see this year. I think he will prove to be a good defender and you don't.

Unless you're talking about a certain appendage , ahaha , I'm pretty sure that Okafor's defense was seen as a major weakness coming out of college, but I'm probably wrong .

In fact you're right.  See, for example, Mike Schmitz' "Jahlil Okafor: Weaknesses" scouting video that was posted on Draft Express.  Also cited as his weaknesses in addition to defense: rebounding, shooting stroke, and explosiveness.

[max215]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

Not everyone acknowledges it. I don't recall any scouts really being concerned about his d. Anyways, it's hard for me to take what he did in college seriously. We'll just have to wait and see this year. I think he will prove to be a good defender and you don't.

Unless you're talking about a certain appendage , ahaha , I'm pretty sure that Okafor's defense was seen as a major weakness coming out of college, but I'm probably wrong .

In fact you're right.  See, for example, Mike Schmitz' "Jahlil Okafor: Weaknesses" scouting video that was posted on Draft Express.  Also cited as his weaknesses in addition to defense: rebounding, shooting stroke, and explosiveness.

Yeah, literally every single one of his college weaknesses has translated to the NBA.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

Not everyone acknowledges it. I don't recall any scouts really being concerned about his d. Anyways, it's hard for me to take what he did in college seriously. We'll just have to wait and see this year. I think he will prove to be a good defender and you don't.

Unless you're talking about a certain appendage , ahaha , I'm pretty sure that Okafor's defense was seen as a major weakness coming out of college, but I'm probably wrong .

In fact you're right.  See, for example, Mike Schmitz' "Jahlil Okafor: Weaknesses" scouting video that was posted on Draft Express.  Also cited as his weaknesses in addition to defense: rebounding, shooting stroke, and explosiveness.

Yeah, literally every single one of his college weaknesses has translated to the NBA.

Not that I'm particularly bullish on his defense, but that's pretty much true for every rookie's weaknesses.

[Beat LA]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

Not everyone acknowledges it. I don't recall any scouts really being concerned about his d. Anyways, it's hard for me to take what he did in college seriously. We'll just have to wait and see this year. I think he will prove to be a good defender and you don't.

Unless you're talking about a certain appendage , ahaha , I'm pretty sure that Okafor's defense was seen as a major weakness coming out of college, but I'm probably wrong .

In fact you're right.  See, for example, Mike Schmitz' "Jahlil Okafor: Weaknesses" scouting video that was posted on Draft Express.  Also cited as his weaknesses in addition to defense: rebounding, shooting stroke, and explosiveness.

Meh, I don't put much stock in Draft Express videos or anything else that they do, really, lol, but that does sound familiar.  Maybe I was thinking of what guys were saying about him on draft night on ESPN, even Bilas, iirc, but I do remember seeing stuff about his defensive deficiencies in other scouting reports and comments, etc.

[LarBrd33]

Yeah... still sounds like Okafor might be the trade we end up making:

Blakey's article today:

“You win with players, not picks,” one assistant GM told CSNNE.com. “Boston has lots of picks and some good players. But there’s not a great player on that roster. And the players you (media) guys keep writing and talking about that they’re interested in, are great players. [Celtics president Danny Ainge] will tell you, it’s not easy making trades. And when it comes to great players, it’s even harder to acquire them no matter how many picks you offer up.”
 
The consensus among league executives spoken to by CSNNE.com is that the most likely trade for Boston will be one in which they wind up with Philadelphia’s Jahlil Okafor.

[celticsclay]

Yeah... still sounds like Okafor might be the trade we end up making:

Blakey's article today:

“You win with players, not picks,” one assistant GM told CSNNE.com. “Boston has lots of picks and some good players. But there’s not a great player on that roster. And the players you (media) guys keep writing and talking about that they’re interested in, are great players. [Celtics president Danny Ainge] will tell you, it’s not easy making trades. And when it comes to great players, it’s even harder to acquire them no matter how many picks you offer up.”
 
The consensus among league executives spoken to by CSNNE.com is that the most likely trade for Boston will be one in which they wind up with Philadelphia’s Jahlil Okafor.

You slay me man. Thanks for that