Okafor - The Ringer (article)

[colincb]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

A starting five of Simmons, Bayless, Saric, Okafor, and Embiid may be the worst starting 5 defensively in the NBA. Not to fear though since the Sixers have planned to play Simmons at forward for a while. In the NBA, who you defend is generally how you're classified. So right now they have Covington, Embiid, Noel, Okafor, Saric and Simmons to play SF, PF, and Center. That's 24 mpg. You could dump Covington, but he's the best outside shooter they have of this bunch though he's strictly a 3 defensively.

http://973espn.com/brett-brown-on-what-position-ben-simmons-will-play-in-the-nba/

One question that continues to be asked about Ben Simmons is what position will he play in the NBA. He has described himself as a point-forward, a position that combines the skill of a point guard and the size of a forward.  At 6’10″, Simmons certainly has the skill set to play with the ball in his hands – but can he excel playing the lead guard position in the NBA?

“He is such an unusual talent,” Sixers coach Brett Brown described.  “I think everybody is first going to become aware of just how good he is in open court. A six foot ten athlete weighing 245 pounds that can move up and down the basketball court and handle the basketball like a guard the way that he does is kind of jaw dropping.”

The Sixers have been in search of jaw-dropping talent ever since they drafted Allen Iverson with the No. 1 overall pick back in the 1996 draft, Coach Brown thinks they finally found that talent in Simmons.

“He really has a gift,” Brown explained about Simmons ability to see the floor and run an offense at his size.  “There are times that you wonder down the road he may even be a point guard. He has that type of mindset, ball skills, and mentality to make me say that. To start with, we will treat him as a point power forward and try to grow him in that capacity. The fans will see someone who is very versatile, very gifted.”

While Brown sees his No. 1 overall pick playing a point-forward position to begin his rookie season, the coach does admit that he might be tempted to use him as a lead guard somewhere down the road.

“He might be able to pull that off someday,” Brown said.  “But I feel its almost cruel to just give him a ball and say your going to be a NBA point guard. I think the point guard position is the hardest position to play in the NBA. I am prepared to groom him, I will not drop this off on his door step. The NBA is very different from FIBA and College.”

[MBunge]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Have people watched Simmons play? He's pretty much Lebron without the shooting and finishing. He's athletic enough to basically guard any position. The guy is a positionless basketball player. If he puts effort on D, I wouldn't be concerned about him guarding midgets he can swat from behind like Lebron.

1.  Simmons is a pretty bad defender.  Worse, I believe, than LeBron at the same age.

2.  Even LeBron got exposed when they tried to put him on Jason Terry in the Finals that one year.  He chased him around all those picks and gassed fairly quickly.

3.  When LeBron guarded a healthy Derrick Rose in the playoffs that one time, he got plenty of trapping help.  He used his size to pressure Rose, but there were other players there to prevent Rose from blowing past him.

A super-athlete with decent technique and effort can briefly guard anyone.  If LeBron tried to spend an entire game guarding John Wall or Marc Gasol, for example, he'd wind up looking pretty bad.

Mike

I disagree. We are seeing the player differently with our eyes. Not much I can do with that.

We're not seeing the player differently.  You are just ignoring everything except Simmons athleticism.

He's a bad defender.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Let's see him actually defend ONE position before assuming he can defend them all.

Mike

[footey]

Simmons reminds me of Jason Kidd.  Just incredible court vision.  Also really good at finding seams. Sub-par shooter for now, will probably improve considerably over the next 2-3 years. Rondo has the same court vision, but pounds the ball too much to be as useful a comparison. 

[ThePaintedArea]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Mostly he didn't. In the lineup most familiar to fans, it was Byron Scott who took the 1's.

Read through the board, that was my point. You can hide Magic, then you can hide Simmons.

Second point was that imo he is more athletic than Johnson so he should be fine on D.

So either way, Simmons should be fine and that was my point kind sir.

I would certainly agree that he's got terrific potential as a defender.

In the modern game it's not usually possible to hide a poor defender.

I agree that he'll be fine, on both ends.

My point is that they'll probably need to trade a couple of bigs.

[celticsclay]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

Simmons surely is the starting 4. He is never, ever going to be able to guard 1s.

Also, you have Okafor listed here as a power forward. That is a recipe for disaster, as he will be predictably awful trying to guard more mobile players out on the floor. But, in any case, his coach played him at center virtually every minute last season, and that is not likely to change.

Also, you didn't list Carl Landry, who is signed through 2017 on a good contract, a power forward who has transformed himself into a very nice stretch four;  he played rotation minutes last season, and that's not likely to disappear .

 Also, Saric, at 6'10", is not likely to be able to take on small forwards in the NBA.  A good rule of thumb here is the old tweener rule: "If you have to ask, he's a four."

Not surprisingly,  given the logjam at power forward, they let Christian Wood depart, despite a very promising season.

They'd be wise to see if Okafor improved from his rookie to sophomore season (as typically happens with 20 year olds) and whether he plays better alongside Embiid who supposedly has range.  They'd also be wise to see if Okafor flourishes with Simmons passing the ball.  Lot of stuff they can play around with.  There's not enough data yet.  They need to make educated decisions here.

So I wouldn't count on Okafor being traded for a role player.  That'd make no sense whatsoever.

 Looks like a buyer's market to me. It does look like he's got a great body, ample evidence of a work ethic, and some exceptional skills. 

They could especially use a point guard who can play off the ball.

honest to goodness folks, i love how this kid can pass the ball, but does anyone realistically think simmons can guard pgs in the nba?

next, one of the many challenges facing philly is how to give minutes to embiid (assuming he can play), noel, okafur, and simmons. oh, and possibly saric as well.

a trade would seem to be a good solution for this embarassment of tall riches. but given the offering prices for okafur, that may not work out as philly had hoped.

None of that matters right now.  They just need to develop the kids and wait out the decade-long Golden State dynasty.

Simmons doesn't need to guard opposing PG's... he just needs to be the guy controlling the ball on offense.  THey can have a smaller guy slotted in at SG (like Bayless).   

Point is, minutes aren't an issue out of the gate.  Embiid will likely be on a minute restriction.  Fans will be buying tickets.  Should be fun to watch for the time being.

How did Magic Johnson guard Point Guards? 

Mostly he didn't. In the lineup most familiar to fans, it was Byron Scott who took the 1's.

Read through the board, that was my point. You can hide Magic, then you can hide Simmons.

Second point was that imo he is more athletic than Johnson so he should be fine on D.

So either way, Simmons should be fine and that was my point kind sir.

I would certainly agree that he's got terrific potential as a defender.

In the modern game it's not usually possible to hide a poor defender.

I agree that he'll be fine, on both ends.

My point is that they'll probably need to trade a couple of bigs.

I think this is pretty widely accepted beyond a few really vocal posters on this board.
If we see Saric, Simmons, Noel and Okafor spend a lot of time on the court together
I will eat my hat. It might sort of work in NBA2K but it wont work on a real basketball court.

[Surferdad]

They are fine for now.  They can experiment with this for a few months.

PG - Simmons
SG - Bayless/Henderson/Stauskas/Rodriguez
SF - Saric/Convington
PF - Okafor
C - Embiid
---
PF/C - Noel

Plenty of minutes for Okafor, Noel and Embiid to all get 30+

A starting five of Simmons, Bayless, Saric, Okafor, and Embiid may be the worst starting 5 defensively in the NBA. Not to fear though since the Sixers have planned to play Simmons at forward for a while. In the NBA, who you defend is generally how you're classified. So right now they have Covington, Embiid, Noel, Okafor, Saric and Simmons to play SF, PF, and Center. That's 24 mpg. You could dump Covington, but he's the best outside shooter they have of this bunch though he's strictly a 3 defensively.

http://973espn.com/brett-brown-on-what-position-ben-simmons-will-play-in-the-nba/

One question that continues to be asked about Ben Simmons is what position will he play in the NBA. He has described himself as a point-forward, a position that combines the skill of a point guard and the size of a forward.  At 6’10″, Simmons certainly has the skill set to play with the ball in his hands – but can he excel playing the lead guard position in the NBA?

“He is such an unusual talent,” Sixers coach Brett Brown described.  “I think everybody is first going to become aware of just how good he is in open court. A six foot ten athlete weighing 245 pounds that can move up and down the basketball court and handle the basketball like a guard the way that he does is kind of jaw dropping.”

The Sixers have been in search of jaw-dropping talent ever since they drafted Allen Iverson with the No. 1 overall pick back in the 1996 draft, Coach Brown thinks they finally found that talent in Simmons.

“He really has a gift,” Brown explained about Simmons ability to see the floor and run an offense at his size.  “There are times that you wonder down the road he may even be a point guard. He has that type of mindset, ball skills, and mentality to make me say that. To start with, we will treat him as a point power forward and try to grow him in that capacity. The fans will see someone who is very versatile, very gifted.”

While Brown sees his No. 1 overall pick playing a point-forward position to begin his rookie season, the coach does admit that he might be tempted to use him as a lead guard somewhere down the road.

“He might be able to pull that off someday,” Brown said.  “But I feel its almost cruel to just give him a ball and say your going to be a NBA point guard. I think the point guard position is the hardest position to play in the NBA. I am prepared to groom him, I will not drop this off on his door step. The NBA is very different from FIBA and College.”

I doubt that any NBA coach in their right mind would start 3 rookies to start the season.

Philly has problem and will be over a barrel if they don't fix it soon.

[Bobshot]

I'd take a chance with Okafor. God knows they need some length and scoring up front to complement Horford. He's a kid with upside that needs coaching. He also needs to get away from a bad situation in Philly where they have too many 5s. Guys that can't play the 4. Horford can play the 4. In fact, it's said he prefers the 4.

So what are they waiting for? I think they've made Griffin a higher priority. They are also waiting for Okafor's price to come down. They don't want to give up the Nets picks--I guess. Making Griffin a priority isn't a money thing. Okafor is cheap and protected. Maybe it's players, or maybe the draft picks.

If there is no conflict with what it would take to get Griffin, I'd get Okafor right now. He's better than Zeller and cheaper. And he has upside. They have to improve their bigs, and they are running out of options.

[bleedGREENdon]

As of right now their best lineup is

PG-Isaiah Canaan
SG-Covington
SF-Simmons
PF-Noel
C-Embiid

Have two shooters, and good low post D, spacing isn't the best in the league but that's probably they best they can do as of now , from the looks of their roster.

Best offensive lineup would be

PG-Canaan
SG-Bayless
SF-Covington
PF-Simmons
C-Okafor

Thing is that defense is putride, idk 6ers win a few more games but I doubt they get out of the lottery. They need perimeter players badly.

[celticsclay]

I'd take a chance with Okafor. God knows they need some length and scoring up front to complement Horford. He's a kid with upside that needs coaching. He also needs to get away from a bad situation in Philly where they have too many 5s. Guys that can't play the 4. Horford can play the 4. In fact, it's said he prefers the 4.

So what are they waiting for? I think they've made Griffin a higher priority. They are also waiting for Okafor's price to come down. They don't want to give up the Nets picks--I guess. Making Griffin a priority isn't a money thing. Okafor is cheap and protected. Maybe it's players, or maybe the draft picks.

If there is no conflict with what it would take to get Griffin, I'd get Okafor right now. He's better than Zeller and cheaper. And he has upside. They have to improve their bigs, and they are running out of options.

The Celtics should not trade the Nets picks for anything less than an absolute superstar. The 2017 pick projects as a top 3 in a much better draft than this year. I doubt the Celtics would trade that pic for Noel AND Okafor. The nets are currently projected for 17.5 wins.

[ManUp]

I can't believe this thread.

The sixers want to get rid of Okafor because...

1.) he never wanted to be in Philadelphia.

2.) They have a major log jam at the 4 and 5.

3.) He has had off the court issues(probably due to frustration from being with a terrible losing team/organization).

Danny is low balling the Sixers. The reason big men are dying out in the NBA is because most of them stink. Keep buying the positionless hype they're selling you, talent is what wins basketball games and Okafor has it in spades. All he need is the right fit and right coach. If he becomes a Celtic watch how quickly his bandwagon fills up.

[Celtics4ever]

I would offer them Jackson and our number one, not the Brooklyn pick.   Heck, I will even throw in our CLE second rounder.

[Neurotic Guy]

I'd take a chance with Okafor. God knows they need some length and scoring up front to complement Horford. He's a kid with upside that needs coaching. He also needs to get away from a bad situation in Philly where they have too many 5s. Guys that can't play the 4. Horford can play the 4. In fact, it's said he prefers the 4.

So what are they waiting for? I think they've made Griffin a higher priority. They are also waiting for Okafor's price to come down. They don't want to give up the Nets picks--I guess. Making Griffin a priority isn't a money thing. Okafor is cheap and protected. Maybe it's players, or maybe the draft picks.

If there is no conflict with what it would take to get Griffin, I'd get Okafor right now. He's better than Zeller and cheaper. And he has upside. They have to improve their bigs, and they are running out of options.

The Celtics should not trade the Nets picks for anything less than an absolute superstar. The 2017 pick projects as a top 3 in a much better draft than this year. I doubt the Celtics would trade that pic for Noel AND Okafor. The nets are currently projected for 17.5 wins.

If we were offered JO and NN for the 2017 pick and didn't take it, history would support the idea that we'd regret it.   SO many top 5 pick do not pan out.   Look at draft history over the last 15 years.  We'd be banking on Nets being terrible, ping-pong balls falling our way, and then a can't-miss talent being available.   For both, I'm in (of course).  For one, I'd roll the dice on the draft.

[Bobshot]

I'd take a chance with Okafor. God knows they need some length and scoring up front to complement Horford. He's a kid with upside that needs coaching. He also needs to get away from a bad situation in Philly where they have too many 5s. Guys that can't play the 4. Horford can play the 4. In fact, it's said he prefers the 4.

So what are they waiting for? I think they've made Griffin a higher priority. They are also waiting for Okafor's price to come down. They don't want to give up the Nets picks--I guess. Making Griffin a priority isn't a money thing. Okafor is cheap and protected. Maybe it's players, or maybe the draft picks.

If there is no conflict with what it would take to get Griffin, I'd get Okafor right now. He's better than Zeller and cheaper. And he has upside. They have to improve their bigs, and they are running out of options.

The Celtics should not trade the Nets picks for anything less than an absolute superstar. The 2017 pick projects as a top 3 in a much better draft than this year. I doubt the Celtics would trade that pic for Noel AND Okafor. The nets are currently projected for 17.5 wins.

If we were offered JO and NN for the 2017 pick and didn't take it, history would support the idea that we'd regret it.   SO many top 5 pick do not pan out.   Look at draft history over the last 15 years.  We'd be banking on Nets being terrible, ping-pong balls falling our way, and then a can't-miss talent being available.   For both, I'm in (of course).  For one, I'd roll the dice on the draft.

Okafor is probably plan B. I think Danny is focusing on Griffin, and what it takes to get him. Getting Griffin might change how he views Okafor, but I don't think it should. I think he can probably get Okafor at some point for a non Nets pick and a PG. He should stay active here. Okafor has merit on his upside and low cost, and would add depth up front with a real 5.

As for Noel, it isn't clear which Ainge prefers. I understand either are now available--doubt Philly wants to give up both. Embiid still a health question.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I can't believe this thread.

The sixers want to get rid of Okafor because...

1.) he never wanted to be in Philadelphia.

2.) They have a major log jam at the 4 and 5.

3.) He has had off the court issues(probably due to frustration from being with a terrible losing team/organization).

Danny is low balling the Sixers. The reason big men are dying out in the NBA is because most of them stink. Keep buying the positionless hype they're selling you, talent is what wins basketball games and Okafor has it in spades. All he need is the right fit and right coach. If he becomes a Celtic watch how quickly his bandwagon fills up.

TP
Welcome to the club. Try to make a note of the people that would rather KO or Marcus Smart over Okafor. It makes things easier in the future to poop on them when they say your nuts.

Okafor is coming off an injury and based on his strengths and weaknesses (both as a player and physically and age wise) he was in the worst situation possible last year.

280lb big guys that are solid usually struggle on rotations and with overall pt during their rookie year...especially the 19 year old ones(look at Drummond).
The current NBA trends and market and the rise of Myles Turner/KP/Towns has really thrown Okafors value into the mud. BUT NBA PLAYERS ARE NOT SOLELY JODGED ON THEIR ROOKIE SEASONS, and Okafor has physical advantages and skills that the others do not have.

Towns/KP/Turner: all adjusted better to certain NBA styles bc they are not as physically strong as Okafor and so their ages and weaknesses were better suited for the first year in the league. Also they each had better teams and legit scorers on each team.

[Beat LA]

As in 'Dead Ringer', lol ?