Trade Idea: Crowder for Cauley-Stein (hear me out)

[Eddie20]

Cauley-Stein was a player that we were linked to prior to the NBA draft a couple years ago. Since then, he struggled during his first 1 1/2 seasons with the Kings. However, following the departure of Cousins, Cauley-Stein's game began to excel. Probably most people didn't notice, but post-trade (a large sample size of 25 games), Cauley-Stein posted the following:

PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

Those are very solid numbers, which is indicative of his improvement. In addition, I expect to see him take another step this season considering his young age. That said, the Kings have a logjam at the 4/5 spots with Koufus, Papagiannis, Skal, Giles, and the newly signed Randolph. It's obvious that the Kings are trying to surround their youth (which also includes Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic) with solid veteran type players.

This brings us to Crowder, who still only 27, brings toughness and experience to the Kings, but also fills a position of need. Plus, his presence on the C's could be divisive, as he sees himself getting less minutes with the arrivals of Hayward, Morris, and Tatum, along with the expected improvement of Brown.

Cauley-Stein would give us an athletic rim-running presence that can defend the rim on the other end and also effectively defend the pick and roll. This would probably give us better roster balance and allow us to not have to force Zizic in action.

Again, this is just a thought. Curious as what others think. But please before you do chime in watch the video below. I think many will be surprised of the improvements made by Cauley-Stein, since I doubt many saw Sacramento games from February forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfAJ1GPkXjA

[Smitty77]

Cauley-Stein was a player that we were linked to prior to the NBA draft a couple years ago. Since then, he struggled during his first 1 1/2 seasons with the Kings. However, following the departure of Cousins, Cauley-Stein's game began to excel. Probably most people didn't notice, but post-trade (a large sample size of 25 games), Cauley-Stein posted the following:

PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

Those are very solid numbers, which is indicative of his improvement. In addition, I expect to see him take another step this season considering his young age. That said, the Kings have a logjam at the 4/5 spots with Koufus, Papagiannis, Skal, Giles, and the newly signed Randolph. It's obvious that the Kings are trying to surround their youth (which also includes Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic) with solid veteran type players.

This brings us to Crowder, who still only 27, brings toughness and experience to the Kings, but also fills a position of need. Plus, his presence on the C's could be divisive, as he sees himself getting less minutes with the arrivals of Hayward, Morris, and Tatum, along with the expected improvement of Brown.

Cauley-Stein would give us an athletic rim-running presence that can defend the rim on the other end and also effectively defend the pick and roll. This would probably give us better roster balance and allow us to not have to force Zizic in action.

Again, this is just a thought. Curious as what others think. But please before you do chime in watch the video below. I think many will be surprised of the improvements made by Cauley-Stein, since I doubt many saw Sacramento games from February forward.

https://www.youtube.com/

watch?v=LfAJ1GPkXjA

First let me say I REALLY like Cauley-Stein!!  But, the Kings will want to wait and see what happens with Randolph and his legal issues.  Second, we SHOULD wait to see if Tatum is really as ready as we hope is is before making this trade.

I truly am interested in this idea.

Great job of thinking outside of the box.

I am a little surprised that Cauley-Stein is not a better shot blocker, especially when he played almost 31 minutes per game.  Odd.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

Cauley-Stein was a player that we were linked to prior to the NBA draft a couple years ago. Since then, he struggled during his first 1 1/2 seasons with the Kings. However, following the departure of Cousins, Cauley-Stein's game began to excel. Probably most people didn't notice, but post-trade (a large sample size of 25 games), Cauley-Stein posted the following:

PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

Those are very solid numbers, which is indicative of his improvement. In addition, I expect to see him take another step this season considering his young age. That said, the Kings have a logjam at the 4/5 spots with Koufus, Papagiannis, Skal, Giles, and the newly signed Randolph. It's obvious that the Kings are trying to surround their youth (which also includes Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic) with solid veteran type players.

This brings us to Crowder, who still only 27, brings toughness and experience to the Kings, but also fills a position of need. Plus, his presence on the C's could be divisive, as he sees himself getting less minutes with the arrivals of Hayward, Morris, and Tatum, along with the expected improvement of Brown.

Cauley-Stein would give us an athletic rim-running presence that can defend the rim on the other end and also effectively defend the pick and roll. This would probably give us better roster balance and allow us to not have to force Zizic in action.

Again, this is just a thought. Curious as what others think. But please before you do chime in watch the video below. I think many will be surprised of the improvements made by Cauley-Stein, since I doubt many saw Sacramento games from February forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfAJ1GPkXjA

It also bothers me and surprises me, frankly, that WCS was ranked 40th in defensive RPM last year out of only 63 centers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

Whereas, Crowder was 13th DRPM out of 70 small forwards!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

Smitty77

[Ilikesports17]

Cauley-Stein was a player that we were linked to prior to the NBA draft a couple years ago. Since then, he struggled during his first 1 1/2 seasons with the Kings. However, following the departure of Cousins, Cauley-Stein's game began to excel. Probably most people didn't notice, but post-trade (a large sample size of 25 games), Cauley-Stein posted the following:

PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

Those are very solid numbers, which is indicative of his improvement. In addition, I expect to see him take another step this season considering his young age. That said, the Kings have a logjam at the 4/5 spots with Koufus, Papagiannis, Skal, Giles, and the newly signed Randolph. It's obvious that the Kings are trying to surround their youth (which also includes Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic) with solid veteran type players.

This brings us to Crowder, who still only 27, brings toughness and experience to the Kings, but also fills a position of need. Plus, his presence on the C's could be divisive, as he sees himself getting less minutes with the arrivals of Hayward, Morris, and Tatum, along with the expected improvement of Brown.

Cauley-Stein would give us an athletic rim-running presence that can defend the rim on the other end and also effectively defend the pick and roll. This would probably give us better roster balance and allow us to not have to force Zizic in action.

Again, this is just a thought. Curious as what others think. But please before you do chime in watch the video below. I think many will be surprised of the improvements made by Cauley-Stein, since I doubt many saw Sacramento games from February forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfAJ1GPkXjA

It also bothers me and surprises me, frankly, that WCS was ranked 40th in defensive RPM last year out of only 63 centers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

Whereas, Crowder was 13th DRPM out of 70 small forwards!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

Smitty77

are we really citing RPM again?

It had Amir as a top 10 defender in the entire league, and ESPN hides the formula used to generate it.

Not an entirely useless stat, but like all defensive stats, it IS fairly useless when you just toss it out without context and act like it defines a players abilities.

[Smitty77]

Cauley-Stein was a player that we were linked to prior to the NBA draft a couple years ago. Since then, he struggled during his first 1 1/2 seasons with the Kings. However, following the departure of Cousins, Cauley-Stein's game began to excel. Probably most people didn't notice, but post-trade (a large sample size of 25 games), Cauley-Stein posted the following:

PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

Those are very solid numbers, which is indicative of his improvement. In addition, I expect to see him take another step this season considering his young age. That said, the Kings have a logjam at the 4/5 spots with Koufus, Papagiannis, Skal, Giles, and the newly signed Randolph. It's obvious that the Kings are trying to surround their youth (which also includes Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic) with solid veteran type players.

This brings us to Crowder, who still only 27, brings toughness and experience to the Kings, but also fills a position of need. Plus, his presence on the C's could be divisive, as he sees himself getting less minutes with the arrivals of Hayward, Morris, and Tatum, along with the expected improvement of Brown.

Cauley-Stein would give us an athletic rim-running presence that can defend the rim on the other end and also effectively defend the pick and roll. This would probably give us better roster balance and allow us to not have to force Zizic in action.

Again, this is just a thought. Curious as what others think. But please before you do chime in watch the video below. I think many will be surprised of the improvements made by Cauley-Stein, since I doubt many saw Sacramento games from February forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfAJ1GPkXjA

It also bothers me and surprises me, frankly, that WCS was ranked 40th in defensive RPM last year out of only 63 centers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

Whereas, Crowder was 13th DRPM out of 70 small forwards!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

Smitty77

are we really citing RPM again?

It had Amir as a top 10 defender in the entire league, and ESPN hides the formula used to generate it.

Not an entirely useless stat, but like all defensive stats, it IS fairly useless when you just toss it out without context and act like it defines a players abilities.

Ok, let's keep this VERY SIMPLE.  WCS averaged 2.2 block per game at KY in 24.5 minutes per game.  In figures sited by the OP in those post-Cousins' games (25), WCS ONLY averaged .9 blocks per game.  I know that blocks don't necessarily determine good interior D, so please do NOT lecture me on that.  I am concerned with a significant drop in his shotblocking at the NBA level.  (And I do realize the difference between high level (KY) college basketball and the NBA.)  The reason I am SO concerned about this is that IF WCS can become a very good shot blocker (2 per game and up), he could really address a true weakness on this team over the last several years that I don't think Zizic will address.

Smitty77

[Celtics4ever]

Ainge got some guys who made us bigger this year.   I doubt he would be interested in giving up a solid cheap player for a guy who stats you are projecting to make him sound palatable.

[Eddie20]

Ainge got some guys who made us bigger this year.   I doubt he would be interested in giving up a solid cheap player for a guy who stats you are projecting to make him sound palatable.

How are the stats being projected? Those were his actual numbers, not some fluky per-36 stats. And he produced them over the final 25 games of the year.

[gouki88]

It's probably one of the better deals I've seen on here. Zizic still isn't ready to take many minutes, especially on a contending team, so getting WCS wouldn't be too bad. He'd add a bit of flexibility as he's a lot more mobile than Baynes is, but a bit worse at rebounding and shooting free throws.

I wouldn't mind this.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

What's WCS's contract situation. I don't wanna sell a really good rotation piece on a really good deal, for a rental of an admittedly God defensive big.

Mind you I am one of the bigger WCS fans on the forum.

[gouki88]

What's WCS's contract situation. I don't wanna sell a really good rotation piece on a really good deal, for a rental of an admittedly God defensive big.

Mind you I am one of the bigger WCS fans on the forum.

We'd have him for two years, then I think he'd be an RFA enabling us to match. So basically a similar amount of money for a similar amount of time, except WCS would be restricted and Jae wouldn't be.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

What's WCS's contract situation. I don't wanna sell a really good rotation piece on a really good deal, for a rental of an admittedly God defensive big.

Mind you I am one of the bigger WCS fans on the forum.

We'd have him for two years, then I think he'd be an RFA enabling us to match. So basically a similar amount of money for a similar amount of time, except WCS would be restricted and Jae wouldn't be.

In that case I am all in for this idea.

[konkmv]

Bad trade... Crowder could bring us more... he will be the starting sf..  Thomas Hayward Crowder Harford baynes... ainge is targeting a big in the next draft

[timriffic]

do it in a second

[Celtics4ever]

How are the stats being projected? Those were his actual numbers, not some fluky per-36 stats. And he produced them over the final 25 games of the year.

Again, the final 25 games  he did this:
PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

His stats for the year are

PPG 8.1
RPG 4.5
APG 1.1
BPG .6
SPG .7
FG% 53
FT% .669
MPG 21.4

NBA players play a whole year not just the last 25 games.   You posting the last 25 games and not the whole year is somewhat cherry picking no?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caulewi01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caulewi01/gamelog/2017/

RPM, funny I do not see his name on the leader sheet here, you go the center position to make him look better:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

As for defense, 40th among centers stinks.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

No thanks, we have Aaron Baynes who is 10th, so we don't need the guy ranked 40th.   Next time maybe read up the chart first?  You do realize they had only 63 centers and he was 40th that is in the bottom half.


WCS looked promising coming in the league with his great vertical and good athleticism.  But he is more mum number requirements for some of the stats to weed out stuff like that.  I wonder if he qualified under the minimum numbers.of an athlete than a player, name one skill that he does on an elite level at the NBA level? 

Did the switch turn on?  Could be or maybe no.   

[gouki88]

How are the stats being projected? Those were his actual numbers, not some fluky per-36 stats. And he produced them over the final 25 games of the year.

Again, the final 25 games  he did this:
PPG 12.9
RPG 8.1
APG 2.2
BPG 0.9
SPG 1.1
FG% 50.4
FT% 71.6
MPG 30.9

His stats for the year are

PPG 8.1
RPG 4.5
APG 1.1
BPG .6
SPG .7
FG% 53
FT% .669
MPG 21.4

NBA players play a whole year not just the last 25 games.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caulewi01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caulewi01/gamelog/2017/

RPM are actual stats but it is misleading in that it does not account for fatigue, a guy could go in a get a few rebounds and in a short time and have a great rating. That is why they have minimum number requirements for some of the stats to weed out stuff like that.

WCS looked promising coming in the league with his great vertical and good athleticism.  But he is more of an athlete than a player, name one skill that he does on an elite level at the NBA level? 

Did the switch turn on?  Could be or maybe no.

Considering he was behind DMC for the vast majority of the season, using the 25 game sample size is pretty fair, as it is basically what he was able to do when given a shot. He's no elite big man, but he is still very serviceable, and is of similar value to Crowder.