Author Topic: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?  (Read 7688 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 07:43:35 PM »

Offline Rakulp

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 533
  • Tommy Points: 78
Great post..TP...

Dominique Wilkins
Pat Ewing
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Charles Barkley
My top 5

And I would put all of them ahead of Westbrook...but he might make the Top 10.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 09:28:03 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
He wouldn’t even be the best PG to not win one
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2018, 09:39:27 PM »

Offline Wretch

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 506
  • Tommy Points: 42
Sabonis came to the NBA too late in his career for us to see his prime but he's an all timer and I don't think he won a NBA.   title. I remember him on the blazers, but I can't recall if he hooked on as a aring chaser later.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2018, 08:06:07 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Elgin Baylor would be my best ever to never win it all. And to me its not close.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bayloel01.html
I always forget he retired in the middle of the 72 season in which the Lakers went on to win the title.

I always thought that if a player was present for any part of a championship season, then he should be considered a 'champion.' Like, say if the Cs won the title last year and we had traded away Marcus Morris at the trade deadline, why would Hayward get a ring, but not Morris?

Of course there are different levels of impact players have on such a season, but that doesn't mean players who aren't there at the end aren't deserving. In at least some way they participated in the progression of the team in a respective season.
getting a ring doesn't mean you were a champion
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2018, 09:10:35 AM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279
Great post..TP...

Dominique Wilkins
Pat Ewing
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Charles Barkley
My top 5

And I would put all of them ahead of Westbrook...but he might make the Top 10.

why Wilkins ???

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2018, 09:38:44 AM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5368
  • Tommy Points: 2478
Jayson Tatum's rookie TS% was .032 points better than ANY season TS% from Westbrook's entire career (.586 vs .554)

Westbrook gets assists, sure, but IMO it's more because of his sky-high usage rate and stat-hunting than it is any offensive brilliance.

Guys like Curry and Harden pass with deadly purpose from any point  on the court - they completely break the defense down with lobs and bullet pases from outside, and are constantly giving their team an advantage even if they don't get credit for an assist.

Westbrook mostly uses athleticism to get in the lane and pass to wings who are standing still on the perimeter. There's an enormous difference in the sophistication of those offenses. The Rockets are incredibly dynamic, the Thunder  are boring and have a perennially dismal team assist rate.

So yeah, Westbrook has his strengths, but his weaknesses (scoring efficiency, ball hog, and overrated passing) are the reason he won't ever win it. I don't think it's fair to put him in the convo with greats like Malone and Barkley. If Malone played with Harden, Ibaka, and Durant, he easily wins the championship.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2018, 11:17:38 AM »

Offline Androslav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2983
  • Tommy Points: 528
Great post..TP...

Dominique Wilkins
Pat Ewing
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Charles Barkley
My top 5

And I would put all of them ahead of Westbrook...but he might make the Top 10.
why Wilkins ???
I know you had him in Greece at the end of his career, but prime 'Nique seemed to like a guy you could plug and play much easier, even though he was a ball spender, below average long range shooter (different era alert), and was not a defensive force. Westbrook fits that desription.
But, IMO, Westbrook deprives his teams overall teamwork, teammates belief in each other. I value that a lot. If he is without the ball he is worse than say, Shane Larkin. He is not willing to move then at all, set a screen or space the floor. And you can't have a great team without that. You can have a good team, in the 40-50 win range, but about 12 teams in the league can repeat or surpass that result each year.

Also Nique's best teammates were Kevin Willis, old Moses Malone and guys like Doc rivers and Eddie Johnson. No Durant, Harden or Paul Georges level of player there.

In a vacuum, athletic wing vs athletic guard?
I'd take a wing any day. Due to size and defensive versatility potential.
Just like McHale once said on Open court coaches edition: "Big skill beats small skill - anytime!"
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2018, 12:16:48 PM »

Offline Birdman

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9170
  • Tommy Points: 412
Dominique Wilkins top 20 player of all time..nuff said
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2018, 12:54:40 PM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279
I know you had him in Greece at the end of his career, but prime 'Nique seemed to like a guy you could plug and play much easier, even though he was a ball spender, below average long range shooter (different era alert), and was not a defensive force. Westbrook fits that desription.
But, IMO, Westbrook deprives his teams overall teamwork, teammates belief in each other. I value that a lot. If he is without the ball he is worse than say, Shane Larkin. He is not willing to move then at all, set a screen or space the floor. And you can't have a great team without that. You can have a good team, in the 40-50 win range, but about 12 teams in the league can repeat or surpass that result each year.

Also Nique's best teammates were Kevin Willis, old Moses Malone and guys like Doc rivers and Eddie Johnson. No Durant, Harden or Paul Georges level of player there.

In a vacuum, athletic wing vs athletic guard?
I'd take a wing any day. Due to size and defensive versatility potential.
Just like McHale once said on Open court coaches edition: "Big skill beats small skill - anytime!"


It looks more like a matter of personal preference but as you say they are pretty similar. DM was more important to the league than RW is , i won't disagree if you call him better player too but at the end of the day they are almost the same player. 

Dominique Wilkins top 20 player of all time..nuff said
That has got to be a joke

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2018, 12:55:36 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2101
  • Tommy Points: 228
Chris Paul is a better PG of Westbrook’s Era to not win a title.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2018, 01:27:06 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Chris Paul is a better PG of Westbrook’s Era to not win a title.
Steve Nash too.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2018, 01:42:36 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

  • NCE
  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4205
  • Tommy Points: 777
I think it has to be karl malone or, pending a late surge, chris paul.

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2018, 03:36:43 PM »

Offline Birdman

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9170
  • Tommy Points: 412
No joke about Wilkins..13th scoring in nba history..even came back after achilles injuries..now after his time in Atlanta he went down some plus went overseas..but guy could play in the 80's
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2018, 04:38:16 PM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279
Carmelo is 19th so what? Wilkins was a very good scorer one of the most spectacular players ever but top 20 of all times?

I doubt he believes that himself

Re: Is Westbrook destined to become the best player to never win a title?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2018, 05:24:43 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Biggest hog not to win the title you mean. Along with Melo