Is This the Last Year of Golden State's Core with Durant?

[LilRip]

I would really like Klay to get out of GSW. He deserves a shot at being the face of a team and it’ll be funny to see how vulnerable GSW is with just Step-KD-Draymond. Granted they’d still be contenders but it’ll no longer be a sure trip to the Finals.

Put Klay in the Lakers, Pels or Timberwolves and that’d be a scary team. Hell, put him in the Sixers and they’d drastically improve.

[JHTruth]

I expect Thompson to take a deal in the $25 million range to keep the team together, but Draymond will bolt in 2020.  I think KD will also continue to take $5 million or so under his max.

I think the opposite, that Green will take less to keep the train rolling, because he has to know he will become pretty irrelevant on a bad team that gives him the max.

Klay on the other hand, may actually be worthy of a max and could be effective on another team and not be the “fourth star” of the Warriors.

Klay, unlike Green, can continue to be an All-Star if he went to another team. Klay could get more recognition and more appreciation elsewhere.

Durant will stay because I really don’t think there is an avenue for him (like LeBron returning to Cleveland) to undo what he did to his image and legacy.

I could see Durant decide to go play with Lebron in LA next year. No doubt in my mind that that is a very real possibility

I think what happens this year will decide a lot. The Warriors looked pretty vulnerable vs Houston last year. This year will only be worse. They reportedly had locker room issues last year and those will only get worse adding a proven cancer like Boogie (off the bench lol). I think it will brutally tough for them to win this year. They will have to get through Houston, LA and hopefully us. Very tough.

If they don't win this year I think it totally crumbles and everyone goes someplace else..

Oh yeah. The pressure on that team, year after year in the front page... it's gotta grind.

Scotty aside, weren't Jordan's 2 3-peats mostly different teams?  And Kobe's 2nd 2 were with a different team than the first 3.

It's just hard to keep it together for so long, mentally, in skills (e.g. Injury or age), or financially.

Their core has several more years of prime ball. Healthy, they should be set if they can keep their attitudes straight and the boss writes the checks.

Usually, it's not the stars but overpaid journeymen that are the budget busters on contenders. They just have so many stars that they're rewriting how to structure team payroll.

Are they somehow taking turns getting paid?  Like, making sure each guy gets a full max at some point, and taking discounts at others?  I really wonder what their longer term plan is (and ours, for that matter).  Like, how high can payroll get?  How much are these top franchises bringing in a year when player salary and tax tops $350M?

And when you essentially have the contenders paying so much tax, they basically pay their opponent, how far are we from a regular season of Globetrotters/Generals games?

Jordan and Pippen are the only members of the Bulls that have more than 3 titles.  That first Bulls team was running on empty.  There is a pretty decent chance that had Jordan not retired that first time, he would only have 3 titles as that team struggled immensely with the Rockets and his retirement was the impetus to remake the team and start over so to speak (the Rockets are the only team that played the Bulls even in all 6 of the title seasons).  When Jordan came back, the roster was vastly different and he was re-energized which led to the 2nd 3-peat. 

Fatigue is a real thing.  Not just from playing deep into the post-season but just spending that much time together with the same group of people.  It drains on you and eventually catches up to you.

Don't forget the mighty Will Perdue. Lol.

If we win some rings with Horford/Hayward/Kyrie we will probably see another team built around Tatum Brown. Mostly because they're so young..

Perdue has 3 rings with the Bulls.  He got a 4th with the Spurs.  That is what I meant.   Rodman has more than 3 titles as well, again though only 3 with the Bulls.  Same with Kerr, and I'm sure there are others.

Right but Purdue actually bridged the gap I think between the 3-Peats.

The first team otherwise was BJ Armstrong, Cartwright, Paxson, Ho Grant, and Stacey King.

The second 3-Peat was Harper, Rodman, Longley, Wennington, Kerr, Kukoc, and Buechler.

[Moranis]

I expect Thompson to take a deal in the $25 million range to keep the team together, but Draymond will bolt in 2020.  I think KD will also continue to take $5 million or so under his max.

I think the opposite, that Green will take less to keep the train rolling, because he has to know he will become pretty irrelevant on a bad team that gives him the max.

Klay on the other hand, may actually be worthy of a max and could be effective on another team and not be the “fourth star” of the Warriors.

Klay, unlike Green, can continue to be an All-Star if he went to another team. Klay could get more recognition and more appreciation elsewhere.

Durant will stay because I really don’t think there is an avenue for him (like LeBron returning to Cleveland) to undo what he did to his image and legacy.

I could see Durant decide to go play with Lebron in LA next year. No doubt in my mind that that is a very real possibility

I think what happens this year will decide a lot. The Warriors looked pretty vulnerable vs Houston last year. This year will only be worse. They reportedly had locker room issues last year and those will only get worse adding a proven cancer like Boogie (off the bench lol). I think it will brutally tough for them to win this year. They will have to get through Houston, LA and hopefully us. Very tough.

If they don't win this year I think it totally crumbles and everyone goes someplace else..

Oh yeah. The pressure on that team, year after year in the front page... it's gotta grind.

Scotty aside, weren't Jordan's 2 3-peats mostly different teams?  And Kobe's 2nd 2 were with a different team than the first 3.

It's just hard to keep it together for so long, mentally, in skills (e.g. Injury or age), or financially.

Their core has several more years of prime ball. Healthy, they should be set if they can keep their attitudes straight and the boss writes the checks.

Usually, it's not the stars but overpaid journeymen that are the budget busters on contenders. They just have so many stars that they're rewriting how to structure team payroll.

Are they somehow taking turns getting paid?  Like, making sure each guy gets a full max at some point, and taking discounts at others?  I really wonder what their longer term plan is (and ours, for that matter).  Like, how high can payroll get?  How much are these top franchises bringing in a year when player salary and tax tops $350M?

And when you essentially have the contenders paying so much tax, they basically pay their opponent, how far are we from a regular season of Globetrotters/Generals games?

Jordan and Pippen are the only members of the Bulls that have more than 3 titles.  That first Bulls team was running on empty.  There is a pretty decent chance that had Jordan not retired that first time, he would only have 3 titles as that team struggled immensely with the Rockets and his retirement was the impetus to remake the team and start over so to speak (the Rockets are the only team that played the Bulls even in all 6 of the title seasons).  When Jordan came back, the roster was vastly different and he was re-energized which led to the 2nd 3-peat. 

Fatigue is a real thing.  Not just from playing deep into the post-season but just spending that much time together with the same group of people.  It drains on you and eventually catches up to you.

Don't forget the mighty Will Perdue. Lol.

If we win some rings with Horford/Hayward/Kyrie we will probably see another team built around Tatum Brown. Mostly because they're so young..

Perdue has 3 rings with the Bulls.  He got a 4th with the Spurs.  That is what I meant.   Rodman has more than 3 titles as well, again though only 3 with the Bulls.  Same with Kerr, and I'm sure there are others.

Right but Purdue actually bridged the gap I think between the 3-Peats.

The first team otherwise was BJ Armstrong, Cartwright, Paxson, Ho Grant, and Stacey King.

The second 3-Peat was Harper, Rodman, Longley, Wennington, Kerr, Kukoc, and Buechler.

Nope.  Perdue was on the first 3 title teams.  He was gone by the time the 2nd title team started.  The only 2 people to appear on any team in both the first and second 3-peat were Jordan and Pippen.  They had complete turnover aside from those two in the 2 Rockets title seasons.  It is truly astonishing to have that level of turnover let alone from that quality of team. 

[kraidstar]

Double post

[kraidstar]

I bet they keep their Big 4 together.

The Warriors pull in a ridiculous amount of money.

According to Forbes it was $359M last year. Their jersey patches alone net them $20M per year. Ticket sales bring in $143M, and that will be going up. And Bay Area folks can afford it. They are in one of the wealthiest cities in the world.

Revenue will probably climb, if anything. And I can't see ownership or the players blowing up a chance to be the best dynasty since the 1950'2/60's Celtics. Because that's what we're talking about. A chance at once-in-a-lifetime dominance.

These guys know it, too. Their confidence, their smugness. I'm sure on some level their is some appeal in leaving to be "The Man." But if you fail it totally undermines what was a chance to be the 2nd-best dynasty in American Pro Sports.

And as for "hometown discounts," keep in mind we're not talking about Scottie Pippen making $3M while Jordan made $30M. The way the luxury tax is structured, if Klay accepts $28M instead of $32 that alone does save quite a bit down the road. These guys will all be incredibly well-compensated, and I can see them giving a little bit back to help ownership.

As a C's fan, I can see us beating them anyways. Our team is loaded, and they are not invincible. It would be really nice to take them out at full strength.

[JHTruth]

I bet they keep their Big 4 together.

The Warriors pull in a ridiculous amount of money.

According to Forbes it was $359M last year. Their jersey patches alone net them $20M per year. Ticket sales bring in $143M, and that will be going up. And Bay Area folks can afford it. They are in one of the wealthiest cities in the world.

Revenue will probably climb, if anything. And I can't see ownership or the players blowing up a chance to be the best dynasty since the 1950'2/60's Celtics. Because that's what we're talking about. A chance at once-in-a-lifetime dominance.

These guys know it, too. Their confidence, their smugness. I'm sure on some level their is some appeal in leaving to be "The Man." But if you fail it totally undermines what was a chance to be the 2nd-best dynasty in American Pro Sports.

And as for "hometown discounts," keep in mind we're not talking about Scottie Pippen making $3M while Jordan made $30M. The way the luxury tax is structured, if Klay accepts $28M instead of $32 that alone does save quite a bit down the road. These guys will all be incredibly well-compensated, and I can see them giving a little bit back to help ownership.

As a C's fan, I can see us beating them anyways. Our team is loaded, and they are not invincible. It would be really nice to take them out at full strength.

The owner said he would try to offer them all extensions this summer. Seems they didn't take them lol. We're talking a potential payroll of $300mm folks with tax penalties. $160mm on 4 players. That simply isn't doable in any scenario

[konkmv]

Cousins leaves and Thompson gets traded...

[More Banners]

I bet they keep their Big 4 together.

The Warriors pull in a ridiculous amount of money.

According to Forbes it was $359M last year. Their jersey patches alone net them $20M per year. Ticket sales bring in $143M, and that will be going up. And Bay Area folks can afford it. They are in one of the wealthiest cities in the world.

Revenue will probably climb, if anything. And I can't see ownership or the players blowing up a chance to be the best dynasty since the 1950'2/60's Celtics. Because that's what we're talking about. A chance at once-in-a-lifetime dominance.

These guys know it, too. Their confidence, their smugness. I'm sure on some level their is some appeal in leaving to be "The Man." But if you fail it totally undermines what was a chance to be the 2nd-best dynasty in American Pro Sports.

And as for "hometown discounts," keep in mind we're not talking about Scottie Pippen making $3M while Jordan made $30M. The way the luxury tax is structured, if Klay accepts $28M instead of $32 that alone does save quite a bit down the road. These guys will all be incredibly well-compensated, and I can see them giving a little bit back to help ownership.

As a C's fan, I can see us beating them anyways. Our team is loaded, and they are not invincible. It would be really nice to take them out at full strength.

Yes and Brilliant! to all. TP for all that.

Yeah...a 4-5 allstar team. Not in my lifetime. Those &0's C's were close: I think all 5 starters on the 86 team made an allstar team at one point, maybe 84 too?

We might have that now, if we start Hayward at 4 and Al at 5.

Teams have had 4 dudes make the allstar team in the same year happen quite a few times, us and Detroit might be the most recent, and GS. Those groups never stayed together....aged out, or someone got paid elsewhere (Big Ben in Chicago-ugh).

GSW also has crazy depth, and that's where the salary problems really come in. Role players on championship teams get overpaid (hello, James Posey and most of the guys who won with Lebron).

It used to be a matter of fitting 3 and D guys around the stars, but fast pace requires more skilled and versatile players. And they're even more likely to get paid. GS struck gold with Iggy and Livingston, but was forced to pay Iggy. They definitely won't be able to do things like that. They might need to be able to draft guys that can play, but perhaps limited upside e.g. 4 year players. And find replacements, like Kerr replacing Paxon.

It's going to be tough.  Frankly, I think we're in a better spot than they are over the next 5-7 years for sure.

[td450]

I bet they keep their Big 4 together.

The Warriors pull in a ridiculous amount of money.

According to Forbes it was $359M last year. Their jersey patches alone net them $20M per year. Ticket sales bring in $143M, and that will be going up. And Bay Area folks can afford it. They are in one of the wealthiest cities in the world.

Revenue will probably climb, if anything. And I can't see ownership or the players blowing up a chance to be the best dynasty since the 1950'2/60's Celtics. Because that's what we're talking about. A chance at once-in-a-lifetime dominance.

These guys know it, too. Their confidence, their smugness. I'm sure on some level their is some appeal in leaving to be "The Man." But if you fail it totally undermines what was a chance to be the 2nd-best dynasty in American Pro Sports.

And as for "hometown discounts," keep in mind we're not talking about Scottie Pippen making $3M while Jordan made $30M. The way the luxury tax is structured, if Klay accepts $28M instead of $32 that alone does save quite a bit down the road. These guys will all be incredibly well-compensated, and I can see them giving a little bit back to help ownership.

As a C's fan, I can see us beating them anyways. Our team is loaded, and they are not invincible. It would be really nice to take them out at full strength.

I agree with the notion that the team is generating so much revenue that they can justify the outrageous payroll and luxury tax bills.

Iguodala turns 35 during the season next year, and Livingston turns 33. A lot hinges on those guys holding up.

The story from our side will inevitably hinge on Brown and Tatum. Their development will determine whether we can take them down or not. I think they will be ready, and I'm hoping Kyrie is smart enough to let them gradually take over.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Maybe someone can help me understand NBA revenue a bit more, but if the Warriors are paying $300 in team payroll, and they are making $358 million in revenue, that doesn't leave a whole lot of money to go around? Between coaches, front office, stadium costs, other overhead, I'd assume they would be losing a lot of money.

They may be making a lot of money, but the repeater luxury tax is designed to deter these types of teams from continuing to exist.

[Moranis]

Maybe someone can help me understand NBA revenue a bit more, but if the Warriors are paying $300 in team payroll, and they are making $358 million in revenue, that doesn't leave a whole lot of money to go around? Between coaches, front office, stadium costs, other overhead, I'd assume they would be losing a lot of money.

They may be making a lot of money, but the repeater luxury tax is designed to deter these types of teams from continuing to exist.

they would absolutely be losing money with that type of payroll and that type of revenue.  Their payroll isn't that high yet though.

[JHTruth]

Maybe someone can help me understand NBA revenue a bit more, but if the Warriors are paying $300 in team payroll, and they are making $358 million in revenue, that doesn't leave a whole lot of money to go around? Between coaches, front office, stadium costs, other overhead, I'd assume they would be losing a lot of money.

They may be making a lot of money, but the repeater luxury tax is designed to deter these types of teams from continuing to exist.

Need to understand that the $300mm is really if they sign the Big 4 to max deals, then filled out the rest of their roster with MINIMUM deals. A couple of Smart-like signings and they could be looking almost $400mm in payroll with tax penalties.

The reality is to keep the team together, AT LEAST one of the Big 4 will need to leave significant money on the table for their next deal..

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Maybe someone can help me understand NBA revenue a bit more, but if the Warriors are paying $300 in team payroll, and they are making $358 million in revenue, that doesn't leave a whole lot of money to go around? Between coaches, front office, stadium costs, other overhead, I'd assume they would be losing a lot of money.

They may be making a lot of money, but the repeater luxury tax is designed to deter these types of teams from continuing to exist.

they would absolutely be losing money with that type of payroll and that type of revenue.  Their payroll isn't that high yet though.

In my OP I explained that their payroll would be 300 million if Durant and Thompson both signed to max deals, they waived Livingstons partially guaranteed contract, and they filled their roster with vet min guys.

A lot can happen between now and then. They could trade Iggy and sign Durant and Thompson to max deals. Thompson and Durant might take less (although I don't think they will). Green could ask to be traded (again unlikely). There's just no way to know, but in the scenario above, their payroll would be 300 million for the 2019-2020 season.

[celticsclay]

Iggy is real cooked for his age, and it doesn't seem like his nagging injuries and back problems will get any better. He is the contract they need to get rid of.

[bdm860]

I expect Thompson to take a deal in the $25 million range to keep the team together, but Draymond will bolt in 2020.  I think KD will also continue to take $5 million or so under his max.

I think the opposite, that Green will take less to keep the train rolling, because he has to know he will become pretty irrelevant on a bad team that gives him the max.

Klay on the other hand, may actually be worthy of a max and could be effective on another team and not be the “fourth star” of the Warriors.

Klay, unlike Green, can continue to be an All-Star if he went to another team. Klay could get more recognition and more appreciation elsewhere.

Durant will stay because I really don’t think there is an avenue for him (like LeBron returning to Cleveland) to undo what he did to his image and legacy.

I could see Durant decide to go play with Lebron in LA next year. No doubt in my mind that that is a very real possibility

I think what happens this year will decide a lot. The Warriors looked pretty vulnerable vs Houston last year. This year will only be worse. They reportedly had locker room issues last year and those will only get worse adding a proven cancer like Boogie (off the bench lol). I think it will brutally tough for them to win this year. They will have to get through Houston, LA and hopefully us. Very tough.

If they don't win this year I think it totally crumbles and everyone goes someplace else..

Oh yeah. The pressure on that team, year after year in the front page... it's gotta grind.

Scotty aside, weren't Jordan's 2 3-peats mostly different teams?  And Kobe's 2nd 2 were with a different team than the first 3.

It's just hard to keep it together for so long, mentally, in skills (e.g. Injury or age), or financially.

Their core has several more years of prime ball. Healthy, they should be set if they can keep their attitudes straight and the boss writes the checks.

Usually, it's not the stars but overpaid journeymen that are the budget busters on contenders. They just have so many stars that they're rewriting how to structure team payroll.

Are they somehow taking turns getting paid?  Like, making sure each guy gets a full max at some point, and taking discounts at others?  I really wonder what their longer term plan is (and ours, for that matter).  Like, how high can payroll get?  How much are these top franchises bringing in a year when player salary and tax tops $350M?

And when you essentially have the contenders paying so much tax, they basically pay their opponent, how far are we from a regular season of Globetrotters/Generals games?

Jordan and Pippen are the only members of the Bulls that have more than 3 titles.  That first Bulls team was running on empty.  There is a pretty decent chance that had Jordan not retired that first time, he would only have 3 titles as that team struggled immensely with the Rockets and his retirement was the impetus to remake the team and start over so to speak (the Rockets are the only team that played the Bulls even in all 6 of the title seasons).  When Jordan came back, the roster was vastly different and he was re-energized which led to the 2nd 3-peat. 

Fatigue is a real thing.  Not just from playing deep into the post-season but just spending that much time together with the same group of people.  It drains on you and eventually catches up to you.

I don't think that's what happened at all with the Bulls.  I don't think it was fatigue, or management's desire to shake things up that led to different players on the '91-'93 teams and the '96-'98 teams. Definitely don't think Jordan retiring caused the Bulls to remake their team. I think it was more just a natural progression of the roster.

Horace Grant left in free agency in '94-'95, but the Bulls tried to re-sign him.

BJ Armstrong was taken in the expansion draft in '95-'96, not a normal occurrence.

John Paxson retired, and Cartwright left as a free agent but might as well have retired (only 29 more games left in the tank). 

King and Perdue were used in key trades (Longley and Rodman), but neither finished higher than 7th in playoff minutes during the first 3peat.

Practically everybody else was end-of-the-bench fodder.

The Bulls brought back 9 guys from the '93 team to the '94 team
They brought back 10 guys from the '94 team to the '95 team
They brought back 8 guys from the '95 team to the '96 team (excluding Jordan).

I just thinks that more natural roster movement than a remake.