Author Topic: The Jeff Green thread  (Read 127448 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #330 on: March 21, 2013, 01:41:40 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315
He wasn't a top SF in last night's game, which is what is so maddening with Green. The complete on/off switch his game seems to have at times. And the fact that if he isn't scoring, he brings very little else to the table except as another body to throw out there on defense.

Jeff was top player in the 1st QTR last night, playing PF. (and along side Pierce and the 1st unit).

Check the rotation Jeff played with after the 1st quarter.

- All of his 2nd quarter minutes along side a cold Jet
- All of his 2nd quarter minutes next to erratic, yet fun loving Jordan Crawford

- Half of his 3rd quarter minutes next to the same duo
- All of his 4th quarter minutes next to these two

For that game last night, I am adding up nearly 7 minutes (next to KG) and 8 minutes (next to Pierce) that Jeff Green had shared court time. Those minutes are chopped up stints, not in rhythm or within any flow of the game too.

And you and most fans expect a bench player to be consistent, night in and night out? Really? For real?

In KG's words: "Are you serious?"

 

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #331 on: March 21, 2013, 02:42:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I am serious. bench players ACTUALLY GET PAID to come off the bench and play with other players that aren't always great and are expected to produce. There's an entire professional career that hundreds in the NBA are employed at where this is EXACTLY their job description.

Get off bench. Get warmed up super fast. Produce.

Doesn't matter how many starters they play with.
Doesn't matter how many minutes they play.
Doesn't matter how well the players he does play with plays.

His job is to produce.

Too often that doesn't happen with him consistently. I don't expect him to have a good game every game. I don't expect him to put up numbers that are unrealistic. I just want him to give a consistent effort and produce effectively on a consistent basis.

Last night after the first quarter he disappeared. The same way he did in the 4th quarter against Miami. The same way he does way more often than I would like. He's been getting better. I will admit that. But a game like last night's only shows me, he ain't there yet and maybe, just maybe, he never will be. He just may not have it in him to be a consistent producer and like Danny Ainge said, we shouldn't expect him to be Paul Pierce because he never will be.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #332 on: March 21, 2013, 03:00:36 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315
I am serious. bench players ACTUALLY GET PAID to come off the bench and play with other players that aren't always great and are expected to produce. There's an entire professional career that hundreds in the NBA are employed at where this is EXACTLY their job description.

Get off bench. Get warmed up super fast. Produce.

Doesn't matter how many starters they play with.
Doesn't matter how many minutes they play.
Doesn't matter how well the players he does play with plays.

His job is to produce.

Too often that doesn't happen with him consistently. I don't expect him to have a good game every game. I don't expect him to put up numbers that are unrealistic. I just want him to give a consistent effort and produce effectively on a consistent basis.

Last night after the first quarter he disappeared. The same way he did in the 4th quarter against Miami. The same way he does way more often than I would like. He's been getting better. I will admit that. But a game like last night's only shows me, he ain't there yet and maybe, just maybe, he never will be. He just may not have it in him to be a consistent producer and like Danny Ainge said, we shouldn't expect him to be Paul Pierce because he never will be.

I would agree with you if Doc were using Jeff as a traditional 6th man, but Doc isn't  doing that.

Jeff isn't even the 1st guy off the bench on most nights.

Our offensive system does not favor 1 on 1 ball no matter how many Paul Pierce ISOs you see. We are team that relies on passing and spreading the wealth on the offensive end.

Traditional 6th men are paid to execute their skills in that manner.

Jeff Green has not been a traditional reserve player in his career. That is not his skill set.

Traditional 6th men

Jason Terry
Jamal Crawford
JR Smith
Lou Williams
Manu Ginobli

All of those guys are ball handlers who shoot and score and need to the rock to do their thing to execute their skill sets.

If you want the same 16-17 points, 3-5 assists per game off the bench you're going to have to convince Doc to force feed Jeff Green.

Other wise be happy with an efficient 11-12 points per game you'll most likely get from Jeff.


Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #333 on: March 21, 2013, 04:36:13 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
He wasn't a top SF in last night's game, which is what is so maddening with Green. The complete on/off switch his game seems to have at times. And the fact that if he isn't scoring, he brings very little else to the table except as another body to throw out there on defense.

Jeff was top player in the 1st QTR last night, playing PF. (and along side Pierce and the 1st unit).

Check the rotation Jeff played with after the 1st quarter.

- All of his 2nd quarter minutes along side a cold Jet
- All of his 2nd quarter minutes next to erratic, yet fun loving Jordan Crawford

- Half of his 3rd quarter minutes next to the same duo
- All of his 4th quarter minutes next to these two

For that game last night, I am adding up nearly 7 minutes (next to KG) and 8 minutes (next to Pierce) that Jeff Green had shared court time. Those minutes are chopped up stints, not in rhythm or within any flow of the game too.

And you and most fans expect a bench player to be consistent, night in and night out? Really? For real?

In KG's words: "Are you serious?"

this thissy this

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #334 on: March 21, 2013, 05:59:15 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
He may be a top ten PF too.   SF I just don't see it, as he doesn't have the best handle.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #335 on: March 21, 2013, 06:00:17 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
He may be a top ten PF too.   SF I just don't see it, as he doesn't have the best handle.

He has one of the best handles on our team at least. I trust him to walk the ball up a lot
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #336 on: March 21, 2013, 08:00:59 PM »

Offline coco

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2682
  • Tommy Points: 146
He won't be a top anything playing only 30mins/gm

He might turn into a top 5 SF, or at least a starter, but it won't happen in Boston. 
Remember Tony Allen?  Had to leave the Cs to get starter's minutes.

Heck, not even with Sully being out of the rotation can JG average more than 30mins/gm

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #337 on: March 22, 2013, 09:48:24 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
He won't be a top anything playing only 30mins/gm

He might turn into a top 5 SF, or at least a starter, but it won't happen in Boston. 
Remember Tony Allen?  Had to leave the Cs to get starter's minutes.

Heck, not even with Sully being out of the rotation can JG average more than 30mins/gm

Since Sully's been out of the lineup, Jeff has been averaging about 31 minutes per game. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #338 on: March 22, 2013, 11:16:19 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
He may be a top ten PF too.   SF I just don't see it, as he doesn't have the best handle.

He has one of the best handles on our team at least.


No he doesn't. His TO% is 11.1 which is pretty bad - significantly below average for a SF, particularly one who rarely makes plays for others. As a point of comparison Pierce's is 11.4, but Pierce is averaging three times as many assists per minute.

His assist to TO ratio is 0.9, which is the worst of any Celtics rotation player except Wilcox (who I'm pretty sure isn't a great ball handler).


Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #339 on: March 22, 2013, 12:44:53 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
I am serious. bench players ACTUALLY GET PAID to come off the bench and play with other players that aren't always great and are expected to produce. There's an entire professional career that hundreds in the NBA are employed at where this is EXACTLY their job description.

Get off bench. Get warmed up super fast. Produce.

Doesn't matter how many starters they play with.
Doesn't matter how many minutes they play.
Doesn't matter how well the players he does play with plays.

His job is to produce.

Too often that doesn't happen with him consistently. I don't expect him to have a good game every game. I don't expect him to put up numbers that are unrealistic. I just want him to give a consistent effort and produce effectively on a consistent basis.

Last night after the first quarter he disappeared. The same way he did in the 4th quarter against Miami. The same way he does way more often than I would like. He's been getting better. I will admit that. But a game like last night's only shows me, he ain't there yet and maybe, just maybe, he never will be. He just may not have it in him to be a consistent producer and like Danny Ainge said, we shouldn't expect him to be Paul Pierce because he never will be.

I would agree with you if Doc were using Jeff as a traditional 6th man, but Doc isn't  doing that.

Jeff isn't even the 1st guy off the bench on most nights.

Our offensive system does not favor 1 on 1 ball no matter how many Paul Pierce ISOs you see. We are team that relies on passing and spreading the wealth on the offensive end.

Traditional 6th men are paid to execute their skills in that manner.

Jeff Green has not been a traditional reserve player in his career. That is not his skill set.

Traditional 6th men

Jason Terry
Jamal Crawford
JR Smith
Lou Williams
Manu Ginobli

All of those guys are ball handlers who shoot and score and need to the rock to do their thing to execute their skill sets.

If you want the same 16-17 points, 3-5 assists per game off the bench you're going to have to convince Doc to force feed Jeff Green.

Other wise be happy with an efficient 11-12 points per game you'll most likely get from Jeff.
So if you are taller than 6'6" you can't be a traditional 6th man?

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #340 on: March 22, 2013, 01:11:45 PM »

Offline CelticG1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4201
  • Tommy Points: 288
Its not that crazy to picture him being top 5. After melo, lebron and durant the next few slots will prob be up in the air.

Just went through a list and there aren't a ton of great. A few right now I would place above him but things could change. I mean I don't think Rudy Gay is necessairly going to be a better option in the next 5 years. Or Galinari. Or who else?

There's going to be a huge drop off after the top 3 but after that I think Jeff green will absolutely be top 10 and then 4-7 will always be an arguement like it is with every position. I mean with of people rate rondo top 2 while others rate top 10 so who knows

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #341 on: March 22, 2013, 03:34:07 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Its not that crazy to picture him being top 5. After melo, lebron and durant the next few slots will prob be up in the air.

Just went through a list and there aren't a ton of great. A few right now I would place above him but things could change. I mean I don't think Rudy Gay is necessairly going to be a better option in the next 5 years. Or Galinari. Or who else?

There's going to be a huge drop off after the top 3 but after that I think Jeff green will absolutely be top 10 and then 4-7 will always be an arguement like it is with every position. I mean with of people rate rondo top 2 while others rate top 10 so who knows
Nic Batum, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Chandler Parsons, Evan Turner and Kidd-Gilchrist are all in the mix. Rudy Gay and Luol Deng, while not great, may probably also be better. Can't put Galinary in this list until he stops shooting .420 from the floor.

Batum and George are probably locks to be better or at least as good. So even top 10 is, at best, an open issue at this point.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 03:53:45 PM by kozlodoev »
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #342 on: March 22, 2013, 03:58:02 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
Its not that crazy to picture him being top 5. After melo, lebron and durant the next few slots will prob be up in the air.

Just went through a list and there aren't a ton of great. A few right now I would place above him but things could change. I mean I don't think Rudy Gay is necessairly going to be a better option in the next 5 years. Or Galinari. Or who else?

There's going to be a huge drop off after the top 3 but after that I think Jeff green will absolutely be top 10 and then 4-7 will always be an arguement like it is with every position. I mean with of people rate rondo top 2 while others rate top 10 so who knows
Nic Batum, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Chandler Parsons, Evan Turner and Kidd-Gilchrist are all in the mix. Rudy Gay and Luol Deng, while not great, may probably also be better. Can't put Galinary in this list until he stops shooting .420 from the floor.

Batum and George are probably locks to be better or at least as good. So even top 10 is, at best, an open issue at this point.

In my opinion, the three guys fighting to be in the top 5 will be Batum George and Green. Pierce should be number 4 right now, but he won't be there in two years.

Leonard and Parsons will definitely be getting better (and Kidd-Glichrist), but Green/George/Batum in their primes will definitely be better. At least, in my opinion.

All we can do is wait!
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #343 on: March 22, 2013, 04:16:07 PM »

Offline Atzar

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9123
  • Tommy Points: 1649
He may be a top ten PF too.   SF I just don't see it, as he doesn't have the best handle.

He has one of the best handles on our team at least. I trust him to walk the ball up a lot

Walking the ball up isn't a good measure of a player's ability to handle the ball.  Tony Allen walked the ball up a lot.  Did he have a good handle?  What about Avery Bradley? 

Ballhandling ability comes into play when dribbling in traffic in half-court situations, and also when changing directions and attempting to create a shot in straight-up iso situations. 


As it is, Jeff Green is devastating when allowed to attack the rim in a straight line going to his right.  Miami never really took that away from him, and he lit them on fire.  We also saw this last night against New Orleans in the first quarter.  But once the Hornets (not exactly a good defensive team) took the right-hand drive away from him, suddenly he became passive and didn't look to attack nearly as much.  Taking his primary weapon from him completely changed his approach to the game. 

The one thing I loved to see against Miami was the confidence to keep attacking when he had it going.  He's much more aggressive and makes much quicker decisions when he's feeling good about himself.  The next step is to expand his comfort zone - add a couple of post moves, work on that left hand, develop a pull-up jumper for situations where he can't get all the way to the basket. 

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #344 on: March 22, 2013, 04:18:41 PM »

Offline Atzar

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9123
  • Tommy Points: 1649
Its not that crazy to picture him being top 5. After melo, lebron and durant the next few slots will prob be up in the air.

Just went through a list and there aren't a ton of great. A few right now I would place above him but things could change. I mean I don't think Rudy Gay is necessairly going to be a better option in the next 5 years. Or Galinari. Or who else?

There's going to be a huge drop off after the top 3 but after that I think Jeff green will absolutely be top 10 and then 4-7 will always be an arguement like it is with every position. I mean with of people rate rondo top 2 while others rate top 10 so who knows
Nic Batum, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Chandler Parsons, Evan Turner and Kidd-Gilchrist are all in the mix. Rudy Gay and Luol Deng, while not great, may probably also be better. Can't put Galinary in this list until he stops shooting .420 from the floor.

Batum and George are probably locks to be better or at least as good. So even top 10 is, at best, an open issue at this point.

In my opinion, the three guys fighting to be in the top 5 will be Batum George and Green. Pierce should be number 4 right now, but he won't be there in two years.

Leonard and Parsons will definitely be getting better (and Kidd-Glichrist), but Green/George/Batum in their primes will definitely be better. At least, in my opinion.

All we can do is wait!

I'd add Danny Granger to that list.  People have forgotten about him because he's been hurt all year, but a healthy Danny Granger is a very dangerous player.