Author Topic: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford  (Read 3394 times)

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Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« on: October 16, 2018, 10:07:53 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
John Gambadoro: Look the Suns would have LOVED to get Rozier and he is a difference maker – him alone in my opinion makes Suns 10 games better. He is a fantastic player. But he is very very unlikely to be traded. But trust me Ryan and James both tried for Rozier before agreeing to sign Jamal.

https://twitter.com/Gambo987/status/1051900033858031616

I'm not sure if that's actual knowledge, an educated guess, or just an opinion.


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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 10:30:48 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I saw some tweets from some of the national writers at the big places the other day which indicated that the Suns had tried to acquire Rozier, so I absolutely believe they at least were calling Ainge about Rozier.  I got the impression they didn't want to part with a ton of value, which is different then this tweet makes it seem. 
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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 10:50:32 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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curious to what they'd actually offer that would tempt Danny at all. 

they're not moving Ayton.  other than that, who else would be that tempting?  just not seeing anyone who'd make more of a positive impact for us than Rozier will by keeping him.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 11:00:45 AM by slamtheking »

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 10:54:07 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Maybe future picks? If they still had that Heat pick they traded to the Sixers for Bridges, that would have been good value.

Jackson would have been good value, but I don't think they would trade him and I don't think the Celtics would take him.

Bender is meh. Bridges is meh.

Okobo and Melton might have both been interesting lower-end prospects, but I don't think either is good value for Rozier.

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 11:02:43 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 11:42:42 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I like Rozier, and I think he will be a very good player off the bench this season. However, I can't see him playing for the Celtics after this season, due to his contract demands. I would have liked to seen Danny sign Crawford to a one year deal, and trade Rozier for Mikal Bridges or Josh Jackson. Maybe Danny could have added the Clippers pick and Rozier in a Jackson deal.

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 12:11:39 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.
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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 12:32:35 PM »

Offline bdm860

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.

When you're a terrible team, I don't think 10 games is a huge jump.  We're only talking about turning the Suns into a 31-win team.  That's still Sacramento Kings level bad.

If you wanted to, you could argue Allen Crabbe added 8 wins to the Nets last year.

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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 12:34:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.

When you're a terrible team, I don't think 10 games is a huge jump.  We're only talking about turning the Suns into a 31-win team.  That's still Sacramento Kings level bad.

If you wanted to, you could argue Allen Crabbe added 8 wins to the Nets last year.

It has also been argued that having a functional point guard versus an absolutely terrible one (or no point guard) is the key between being truly awful and just standard bad. It has been argued Hinkie realized this and started the season that got the league involved with basically no point guards.

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2018, 12:46:17 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.

When you're a terrible team, I don't think 10 games is a huge jump.  We're only talking about turning the Suns into a 31-win team.  That's still Sacramento Kings level bad.

If you wanted to, you could argue Allen Crabbe added 8 wins to the Nets last year.

It has also been argued that having a functional point guard versus an absolutely terrible one (or no point guard) is the key between being truly awful and just standard bad. It has been argued Hinkie realized this and started the season that got the league involved with basically no point guards.

I don't think Rozier is the kind of point guard people are talking about in this scenario, as he's not really a playmaking, facilitating PG, more of a guy who will make the team better because he'll get his and hopefully do so efficiently.  I also think Rozier is really young and the Suns are really young (and really bad), so 5 wins is actually a significant achievement in my eyes. 

I'm a big Rozier fan but I just don't see him adding 10 wins to Phoenix.  10 wins is a ton, and if you translate it to Win Shares, having a WS of 10+ is All-NBA territory if I'm not mistaken. 
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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2018, 01:56:07 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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BBall Index just became live today and they have some interesting analysis if people are interested.  Below are their ratings for Rozier.

Perimeter shot         A-
Off ball movement    A-
One on one              C-
Finishing                  D
Roll Gravity              D+
Playmaking              C+
Post play                  B+
Offensive Reb.          B-
Perimeter defense     C
Interior defense        F
Defensive Reb.         B

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2018, 02:06:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.

When you're a terrible team, I don't think 10 games is a huge jump.  We're only talking about turning the Suns into a 31-win team.  That's still Sacramento Kings level bad.

If you wanted to, you could argue Allen Crabbe added 8 wins to the Nets last year.

It has also been argued that having a functional point guard versus an absolutely terrible one (or no point guard) is the key between being truly awful and just standard bad. It has been argued Hinkie realized this and started the season that got the league involved with basically no point guards.

I don't think Rozier is the kind of point guard people are talking about in this scenario, as he's not really a playmaking, facilitating PG, more of a guy who will make the team better because he'll get his and hopefully do so efficiently.  I also think Rozier is really young and the Suns are really young (and really bad), so 5 wins is actually a significant achievement in my eyes. 

I'm a big Rozier fan but I just don't see him adding 10 wins to Phoenix.  10 wins is a ton, and if you translate it to Win Shares, having a WS of 10+ is All-NBA territory if I'm not mistaken.
Just to be clear the 3 PG's on the Suns roster are Elie Okobo, De'Anthony Melton, and Isaiah Canaan.  Those players are awful and probably will cost the Suns 5 games, so you add a competent PG like Rozier who adds 5 games, but also takes away the -5 games of the other guys. 
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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2018, 03:29:58 PM »

Offline gift

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.

When you're a terrible team, I don't think 10 games is a huge jump.  We're only talking about turning the Suns into a 31-win team.  That's still Sacramento Kings level bad.

If you wanted to, you could argue Allen Crabbe added 8 wins to the Nets last year.

It has also been argued that having a functional point guard versus an absolutely terrible one (or no point guard) is the key between being truly awful and just standard bad. It has been argued Hinkie realized this and started the season that got the league involved with basically no point guards.

I don't think Rozier is the kind of point guard people are talking about in this scenario, as he's not really a playmaking, facilitating PG, more of a guy who will make the team better because he'll get his and hopefully do so efficiently.  I also think Rozier is really young and the Suns are really young (and really bad), so 5 wins is actually a significant achievement in my eyes. 

I'm a big Rozier fan but I just don't see him adding 10 wins to Phoenix.  10 wins is a ton, and if you translate it to Win Shares, having a WS of 10+ is All-NBA territory if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, if we're talking about calculated win shares, 10 games is insane. However, I don't think win shares are literally accurate.

Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2018, 03:37:48 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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People just going to look past the 10 games better comment?!?  That’s a pretty ridiculous statement right there.  Ten games better reserved for the biggest of superstars.

Nope, it jumped out at me too.  5 games at best.

When you're a terrible team, I don't think 10 games is a huge jump.  We're only talking about turning the Suns into a 31-win team.  That's still Sacramento Kings level bad.

If you wanted to, you could argue Allen Crabbe added 8 wins to the Nets last year.

It has also been argued that having a functional point guard versus an absolutely terrible one (or no point guard) is the key between being truly awful and just standard bad. It has been argued Hinkie realized this and started the season that got the league involved with basically no point guards.

I don't think Rozier is the kind of point guard people are talking about in this scenario, as he's not really a playmaking, facilitating PG, more of a guy who will make the team better because he'll get his and hopefully do so efficiently.  I also think Rozier is really young and the Suns are really young (and really bad), so 5 wins is actually a significant achievement in my eyes. 

I'm a big Rozier fan but I just don't see him adding 10 wins to Phoenix.  10 wins is a ton, and if you translate it to Win Shares, having a WS of 10+ is All-NBA territory if I'm not mistaken.
Just to be clear the 3 PG's on the Suns roster are Elie Okobo, De'Anthony Melton, and Isaiah Canaan.  Those players are awful and probably will cost the Suns 5 games, so you add a competent PG like Rozier who adds 5 games, but also takes away the -5 games of the other guys.

Are we sure any of those guys are actually going to start once Booker comes back?  I think it's very possible they trot out a lineup with Booker and Ayton at PG and C, and Warren, Jackson and Ariza as the other 3.  Maybe Bender instead of Ariza, if they haven't given up on Bender yet, also if they want to tank.

I think they either start Canaan (who you're right isn't good and would help them tank, which they can do now with McDonough out) or don't play a traditional PG.
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Re: Report: Suns tried to trade for Rozier before signing Crawford
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2018, 04:01:09 PM »

Offline JBcat

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BBall Index just became live today and they have some interesting analysis if people are interested.  Below are their ratings for Rozier.

Perimeter shot         A-
Off ball movement    A-
One on one              C-
Finishing                  D
Roll Gravity              D+
Playmaking              C+
Post play                  B+
Offensive Reb.          B-
Perimeter defense     C
Interior defense        F
Defensive Reb.         B

Interesting.  I would say his finishing has improved to a C. I’m not sure he’s quite at A- for perimeter shot.  I’ve hardly seen him post up so I’m not sure about a B+ either.  I would say at least A- for defensive rebounding for a PG.