Author Topic: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time  (Read 3472 times)

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Offline Bossco

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Danny Ainge said it himself when he was interviewed on EEI two weeks ago. When asked what he thought about NBA refereeing he said that it goes in cycles. He said that EVERYBODY thinks that they are getting screwed by the refs no matter what team you are on. He said that he thought that the Celtics had had some tough calls this year but that they usually even out over time.

Tonight is a perfect example. The Charlotte Bobcats took 102 shots in 58 minutes of playing time and only went to the line 7 times.

Now we all know that if it were the Celtics who were on the other end of the score tonight Tommy Heinsohn would have needed a defibrillator.

I briefly saw Larry Brown's presser and he wasn't very pleased about it.

My question to my fellow Celtics fans is this: Were the refs terrible tonight too?

I may be in the minority, but I am tired of fans always blaming the refs.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 04:47:22 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I don't really buy into any of the league-wide conspiracy theories where the refs are intentionally screwing the Celtics out of home court advantage. 

However, I do think that there have been some tremendously bad calls this year, that have directly contributed to losses.  The Lakers game where the refs fouled out KG, for instance, for a touch foul, after ignoring him getting repeatedly hacked two seconds before hand.  That was poor refereeing, and looked pretty questionable at the time.

Lastly, as an aside,  I don't think it generally makes sense to focus on free throw differential as a sign of good or bad officiating.  If one team takes 50 jump shots, and another team takes 50 shots from in the paint, one would expect the second team to get to the line more.  Even that's not completely reliable, because it's very possible for a team to shoot a bunch of inside shots without being fouled.  I think the focus needs to be on individual bad calls, especially in the context of the flow of the game.

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Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 07:35:47 AM »

Offline housecall

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I don't really buy into any of the league-wide conspiracy theories where the refs are intentionally screwing the Celtics out of home court advantage. 

However, I do think that there have been some tremendously bad calls this year, that have directly contributed to losses.  The Lakers game where the refs fouled out KG, for instance, for a touch foul, after ignoring him getting repeatedly hacked two seconds before hand.  That was poor refereeing, and looked pretty questionable at the time.

Lastly, as an aside,  I don't think it generally makes sense to focus on free throw differential as a sign of good or bad officiating.  If one team takes 50 jump shots, and another team takes 50 shots from in the paint, one would expect the second team to get to the line more.  Even that's not completely reliable, because it's very possible for a team to shoot a bunch of inside shots without being fouled.  I think the focus needs to be on individual bad calls, especially in the context of the flow of the game.
I  agree...i thought i was alone on remembering the Lakers game foul situation late in the game.tp

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 07:38:18 AM »

Offline 2short

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I don't think there is a conspiracy.  Of course the greatest trick the devil ever did was to get people to think he didn't exist.  8)
I feel the officiating in the nba is not good for the quality of the players & coaches.  I also feel the nba does cater to the superstars for tv.  This can be lebron, kobe, jordan or bird.  PP does get some calls his way that are questionable just like wade & lebron just not as many.  Last nights game charlotte didn't deserve to go to the line.  Beside learning to box out I like charlottes main team. 

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 07:48:27 AM »

Offline TatteredOnMySleeve

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The refs did generally stink last night in our favor...but they also just sucked in general..

I also dont think one game where the ft attempts favor us is a sign of the ref's calls evening out...they've been awful all year usually not in our favor..
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 07:59:33 AM by TatteredOnMySleeve »
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Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 08:37:19 AM »

Offline cordobes

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TP, very good post.

Danny Ainge said it himself when he was interviewed on EEI two weeks ago. When asked what he thought about NBA refereeing he said that it goes in cycles. He said that EVERYBODY thinks that they are getting screwed by the refs no matter what team you are on. He said that he thought that the Celtics had had some tough calls this year but that they usually even out over time.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

Quote
I briefly saw Larry Brown's presser and he wasn't very pleased about it.

Neither are some Bobcats fans. Oddly enough, the mentions to the referees in this blog have been notoriously absent. Go figure...  ::)

Quote
I may be in the minority, but I am tired of fans always blaming the refs.

Me too, it's getting insane. In some game threads, 70% of the posts are from people Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing about the refs.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 08:59:55 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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TP, very good post.
Quote
I may be in the minority, but I am tired of fans always blaming the refs.

Me too, it's getting insane. In some game threads, 70% of the posts are from people ****ing about the refs.

Either that or proclaiming the Celtics never play hard, and reguarly give up massive runs to the opposition. Etc...

Fans are emotional. I have a tough time watching games with my father because he can get rather negative sometimes. For example after the Bulls game he dismissed Perkins as a failure as a Center and that we needed to get a new one. (he also said no way we'd win another title this year)

We got a friendly home whistle last night on some defensive plays. We also got jobbed on some calls, particuarlly offensive fouls. It happens.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 09:17:28 AM »

Offline BirdNerd

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i know this is off topic a tad, but I the coaches riding the refs ALL game is ridiculous.   is that just  them working for their salaries?   does it really eventually get you some calls?

how about if you just ignored the refs, I wonder what the +/- would be with bad calls? 

plus it was funny to see the rug pulled out from Larry Brown's team.   i can't think of a more miserable coach over there.  its like he's tortured sitting on the bench.   i think it tenses your team up. 

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 10:12:17 AM »

Offline colincb

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1 The Bobcats have every right to be upset at the refs. I feel for them since the Bobcats are playing very well and are really better as currently comprised than some of the clubs that will make the playoffs.

2 We've been on the other side for a couple of games most especially the LAL game, which was a very big game for us.

3 There is way too much complaining about the refs on any NBA message board for any team for any game.

4 I appreciate Tommy for all his insight on topics other than the referees, but last night was awful listening to him.

5 I do think that the referreeing this year has been a problem league-wide comparatively. Maybe there is a generational change in the ranks. There does seem to be crews where the level of experience is light and others that are all veterans, which doesn't make sense in the regular season.

6 I'm thinking that Bavetta's game has slipped in particular and that Leon Wood's conduct should be closely monitored.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 10:40:51 AM »

Offline bruinsandceltics

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When the a team gets as many open shots as the Bobcats did yesterday, they aren't going to get many fouls called for them. The Celtics defense was awful and if they Bobcats weren't getting an open jumpshot, they were getting a dunk or a layup. Sure there were missed calls but that happens in all NBA games because they don't train them to be the best they can.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 11:03:36 AM »

Offline twinbree

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I feel for the Bobcats about the FT difference I really do since its happened to the Celtics a few times. But they had almost exactly the same advantage over the Lakers who also took about 30 more shots than they did. Isn't it a bit greedy to benefit from that kind of homecooking then complain when the shoe is on the other foot the next night?
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Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 11:06:10 AM »

Offline jdpapa3

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I'll say this: when you are at home and Dick Bavetta is the referee, you are in good hands.

I'm very on board with the conspiracy talk: who would Stern or whoever wants money rather have in the playoffs: Chicago or Charlotte...easy decision because of market revenue. So what does he do: sends Bavetta over to Boston.

NBA is dying for Cleve/LA finals. Boston is clearly out of the running for homecourt now. I'd say that this game evened out the Jazz game from earlier this year: Bavetta killed us in that one.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 11:57:28 AM »

Offline Thruthelookingglass

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When the a team gets as many open shots as the Bobcats did yesterday, they aren't going to get many fouls called for them. The Celtics defense was awful and if they Bobcats weren't getting an open jumpshot, they were getting a dunk or a layup. Sure there were missed calls but that happens in all NBA games because they don't train them to be the best they can.

I think our defense was a bit tentative because guys were trying NOT to foul, which helped the Bobcats shoot the lights out.  It's a tradeoff.  That said, if I was a Bobcat fan I'd be bent out of shape too--but the officiating is never perfect and all of can point to worse.

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 11:59:00 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I complain about the refs a good bit, but I consistently shy away from conspiracy theories because they typically make zero sense and crumble under the slightest bit of scrutiny or consideration of the logistics necessary to pull off such a thing. 

Last night we shot a lot of FTs, but as Roy said a lot of that is situational - a big FT disparity isn't necessarily indicative of bad reffing.  A lot of times we wind up on the other side of a FT disparity because we tend to put up more resistance in the paint and commit more fouls instead of allowing more layups. 

The refs really are pretty atrocious this year though - I wonder if, as colincb said, there's a generational shift where the old refs are starting to lose their edge and the younger refs aren't experienced enough yet. 

Re: tonight is a perfect example how ref's calls even out over time
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 12:01:32 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I complain about the refs a good bit, but I consistently shy away from conspiracy theories because they typically make zero sense and crumble under the slightest bit of scrutiny or consideration of the logistics necessary to pull off such a thing. 

Last night we shot a lot of FTs, but as Roy said a lot of that is situational - a big FT disparity isn't necessarily indicative of bad reffing.  A lot of times we wind up on the other side of a FT disparity because we tend to put up more resistance in the paint and commit more fouls instead of allowing more layups. 

The refs really are pretty atrocious this year though - I wonder if, as colincb said, there's a generational shift where the old refs are starting to lose their edge and the younger refs aren't experienced enough yet. 

yea, its not conspiracy in my mind its incompetance.

As me and cor we're discssing, i think if you took the 8-10 stand out bad officals and replaced them with some of the best from college and international ranks, it would go a long way towards improving the quality of the officating.
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