Never underestimate the heart of a Champion

[celticinorlando]

i think what is being lost here is the powe injury...nobody even knows what is up with that....i think boston can get through rd.1 without them....but need them in rd 2 and on

[greenwise]

I'm a little bit surprised by the overall negative mood of the fans about the team's chances to repeat. The majority of us are quite pessimistic because the Celtics don't dominate the league like they did a year ago but I think that the team is still really good, if not better than last year. So here are some explanations of my own (I tried to stick to objective facts) to why we are overreacting, and why I think the team has really good chances of repeating.

I guess that we were so used to see the Celtics dominate last season that we are shocked to see that they can lose more games this year, and often consecutives losses. I mean, many times this season we thought it was the end of the world because the team had just lost to the Clippers or the Warriors but with 7 games left in the regular season, the team is on pace to win 60+ games for the second year in a row. Last year the C's won 66 games while dominating the league. This year, they can win 63 games while not being dominant... I can't help but just see a psychological difference in our minds because ultimately the results will be excellent.

- A season ago, the Celtics had many things to prove. They wanted to show that their three stars were unselfish, committed to defense, hard work and to the team's spirit (ubuntu). Not only did they dominate the league, they did it in an amazing way, by sweeping the Texas Triangle for example. They were truly dominative and unstoppable, and they were putting all their energy in every single game.

- This year, the team isn't as motivated as it was last year. I can't blame the players to be less intense, even if it makes me mad sometimes. There is a huge difference between being the dominant team in the league and the defending champions. In the first case, the opponent will try to beat you but if he isn't able to do so, he will back down and accept the defeat. Against the defending champions, the behaviour is totally different : you never back down, you attack righ from the start with a lot of energy (which explains the slow starts/1st quarters of the C's this year) and you do your best to win, no matter what. It's true for every team, including the worst of the leagues because it's the only thing they can be proud of (saying "yeah, well, we suck  but at least we beat the champs!"). The Celtics don't feel that they have something to prove because they are the defending champions, and it speaks for itself. Moreover, they know that being great in the regular season won't be remembered if you get kicked out of the playoffs in the first round. The first round against Atlanta and even the 2nd round against Cleveland made them realize that with accurracy.

In these conditions it's hard to keep your intensity up for 48 minutes and for every game of the season. Plus, against bad teams, the C's were often overconfident (like against the Bucks recently) or a litte bit lazy, blowing out some leads at the end of games. It's the common "load" of the champions : after all, you are the defending champions, it's quite normal to think you don't need to give your best against a bad team because you're clearly better than the opponents.

Understand that I'm not making excuses here. I'm just explaining why the the team doesn't seem as dominant as last year. I'd add that many fans are putting the losses' blame on the injuries plaguing the team : yes, injuries are one big factor explaining these losses but the lack of intensity and the overconfidence are part of the equation too.

- What is more worrying is that the Celtics lost to the Lakers twice this year, and have lost to other contender teams such as the Cavaliers, the Magic and the Spurs. And, there, I think we tend to forget a huge factor : the potential rivals of last year have strengthened a lot. Somebody said it in a Fanpost : the Celtics' commitment and effort who led to championship 17 are truly used as an example for many teams, like the Cavaliers (showing up for every game, dominant at home), the Lakers (more focused... or trying to be ), the Hawks (like their 6-0 start in the first days of the season and their improved defense and competitive mentality). It's not something you can overlook : the Cavs are better than last year, so are the Magic and every other contender, not only because the Celtics inspired them but because in a year you usually improve a lot, especially after having learnt from the playoffs. Am I disappointed to see the Celtics lose against these teams? Yes. Am I worried? No, because obviously these teams have improved, it's not like the C's have regressed. Plus, last year if I recall correctly Cleveland and Orlando did split the season series so it's not much of a difference.

Here is my point : we overreact to the C's losses and weaknesses because we don't see them dominate like last year and we feel they're truly in danger of not repeating. I'm sorry but I can't help being stunned when I read that the team will be knocked out in the 1st round of the playoffs. Here is why the C's are the favorites in my opinion :

- 2nd or 3rd seed, they're able to win on the road, we know that. They struggled last year in the first rounds but did win on the road when it was necessary. This experience and their confidence will help to do it again this year, even in Cleveland.

- Healthy, the team's got one of the best rosters in the league. I'm assuming that the team will be healthy come playoffs time, especially since there are many days off in the next couple of weeks. The improvement of Powe and BBD will also really help in the playoffs.

- People are expecting too much of Marbury and Moore while they'll (probably) be fine. We all know that they came in Boston to provide their respective skills (passing, scoring and ball-handling for Starbury, length, rebounding and defense for Mikki). Sure, the two of them didn't have a huge game since their arrival but we don't really care about their performances in the regular season. Last year, PJ and Sam were expected to contribute in the playoffs and didn't do much in the regular season. And still, PJ was clutch and decisive in the game 7 against Cleveland with his perfect performance during the whole game and down the stretch (man, this jumper in the last minute was great!). That's what we are expecting from Marbury and Moore : we know what they are capable of doing and the team will have the chance to count on them when their skills will be truly needed.

Of course Marbury still has some problems with his shooting game and Mikki is way too much in foul trouble. But they are slowly getting into the rotation and you can't question their intensity and commitment : it seems like a bold statement but I'm sure they will provide quality minutes in the playoffs and really fill in their roles, as PJ did (not so much for Sam though).

- The team's defense and "killer instinct" have not disappeared unlike what many fans are thinking. Sure, the team struggled down the stretch many times this season. But the games against Cleveland without KG or in San Antonio are just reminders of what you'll see from the Celtics in the playoffs. Intensity, desire (which lacked the most this season in my opinion), huge defense, clutch plays... everything that made this team win it all last year.

I'd add that the "confidence crisis" lived by the team this season (after the Lakers' losses) will just be an other factor strenghtening the players. They know that they are not unbeatable, they know what it takes to win, they know that they can win on the road, they know they can rely on each other.

Moreover, the Celtics are quite underdogs this year, according to the media. I think it's a huge factor too : they played their best basketball when they weren't favorite anymore in the last playoffs (against Detroit and L.A) and they're at their best when the pressure of being the favorites isn't on their shoulders. The intimidation factor will be back right in the C's hands, for the best.

My point is that the Celtics have all the pieces to repeat. Really, it's obvious that they have what it takes to win another championship, physically speaking with their roster and their defense and mentally speaking with their experience, their intensity and their confidence. The only difference with last year is that they won't have HCA but I'll finally consider it as a bonus more than a needed piece because ultimately a championship team has to win on the road.

I hope I haven't bored you with this long thread, and I'd be nice if my topic could lead to some interesting debate. The title of the thread says it all : "Never underestimate the heart of a Champion"! I trust the Celtics and I can't wait to see them perform in the playoffs.


Tp!

[cordobes]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

[Drucci]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

[Fafnir]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams, ever.

This year we're a little more ordinary. We're still very good. *shrug* I remember people saying that we'd need a year to jell and this would be the year for our title run. Hopefully we can come together like those Lakers/Rockets/Bulls and put on a playoff run that will cement this teams place in history.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

Heart of a champion overrated? hmmm ...nah I dont think so

Most teams and players who win one become more confident in themselves and even more so the more pressure is on...it doesnt neccesarily result in repeating but its there regardless

Tim Duncan, chauncey Billups, Kobe bryant, Paul Pierce, Dwyane Wade.. etc etc all have the heart of a champion...but thats not gonna carry them to a title every season

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams, ever.

This year we're a little more ordinary. We're still very good. *shrug* I remember people saying that we'd need a year to jell and this would be the year for our title run. Hopefully we can come together like those Lakers/Rockets/Bulls and put on a playoff run that will cement this teams place in history.

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams ever, OK...well the scheme is still the same, meaning its not more oridnary, just not excuted as well

and honestly, when this team WAS healthy the defensive stats were nearly identical to last years....so whats that?

[Birdbrain]

Yep and it will carry the C's through the playoffs and to #18.  Then all the naysayers ( Boston fans included ) will rejoin the bandwagon and everyone will act like they thought Boston would do it anyway.  It's hard to get your head around another 60 win season with all the injuries and still think Boston can win it.  Thankfully I was out of the country last year during the Atlanta and early part of the Cleveland series.  I would presume that naysayers ( Boston fans included ) were out in full force then as well...  It takes a certain type of fan to be able to deal with your teams adversity and not just quit on them to protect yourself from heartache.  I've never prescribed to that formula especially with a team that's shown so much heart the past couple of years.   Boston simply has a better team than Cleveland minus 1 player and in the end that will be the difference.   

Go C's.

[cordobes]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

Sorry, but it doesn't really matter if you think they regressed or not, it's a matter of fact; your thoughts don't change what objective metrics say. What you're trying to argue is why they regressed, not if they regressed.

Do you have any evidence that the regression is due to that factor and, more importantly, that the team can "turn it on" for the playoffs? Generally, it doesn't happen that way. Teams increase their intensity and focus during the playoffs but so do their competitors: that's why the efficiency margin during the regular season is such a robust predictor of playoff success.

For example, Lakers fans use a very similar argument to yours: they argue their team proved that, when it matters, when they needed it, they stepped up on defence and that most of the season they've been coasting - and once playoffs start, they can get back to the kind of defence they played in the first months of the season and during the "statement games".

IMO, the explanation is more simple: Garnett is older and played less, Pierce has been tired, Rondo has been up and down defensively and we replaced minutes used by good defensive players with players who are not so good on that side of the floor.

[cordobes]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

Heart of a champion overrated? hmmm ...nah I dont think so

Most teams and players who win one become more confident in themselves and even more so the more pressure is on...it doesnt neccesarily result in repeating but its there regardless

Tim Duncan, chauncey Billups, Kobe bryant, Paul Pierce, Dwyane Wade.. etc etc all have the heart of a champion...but thats not gonna carry them to a title every season

Thanks, you provide a great explanation why the "heart of a champion" is overrated: there are always several teams with the "heart of a champion", so, what's the difference?

I could wrote a thread titled "Never underestimate a team whose players have 2 legs and 2 arms!". The importance of having 2 arms to play winning basketball can't be overstated; however, it's not exactly a trait you consider when weighting the chances of a team winning the title. That was my point.

[cordobes]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams, ever.

This year we're a little more ordinary. We're still very good. *shrug* I remember people saying that we'd need a year to jell and this would be the year for our title run. Hopefully we can come together like those Lakers/Rockets/Bulls and put on a playoff run that will cement this teams place in history.

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams ever, OK...well the scheme is still the same, meaning its not more oridnary, just not excuted as well

and honestly, when this team WAS healthy the defensive stats were nearly identical to last years....so whats that?

The scheme is exactly the same some of the worst defensive teams in the league use. That's how important the scheme is. The execution is not as sharp, and that's exactly the reason why we aren't as good defensively.

Every season the league average offensive efficiency increases as the season progresses (so, defensive eff. get worse). Last season C's were an exception - probably because they were a new team that kept improving throughout the year. This season we're just another regular team. That's what explains why the mid-season values were almost similar.

[BballTim]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams, ever.

This year we're a little more ordinary. We're still very good. *shrug* I remember people saying that we'd need a year to jell and this would be the year for our title run. Hopefully we can come together like those Lakers/Rockets/Bulls and put on a playoff run that will cement this teams place in history.

Last year we were one of the best defensive teams ever, OK...well the scheme is still the same, meaning its not more oridnary, just not excuted as well

and honestly, when this team WAS healthy the defensive stats were nearly identical to last years....so whats that?

The scheme is exactly the same some of the worst defensive teams in the league use. That's how important the scheme is. The execution is not as sharp, and that's exactly the reason why we aren't as good defensively.

Every season the league average offensive efficiency increases as the season progresses (so, defensive eff. get worse). Last season C's were an exception - probably because they were a new team that kept improving throughout the year. This season we're just another regular team. That's what explains why the mid-season values were almost similar.

  I think we were holding pretty steady until KG went down. I don't know of any splits on defense but I know that in December were were top 4, in January we were #1 and I'm pretty sure in February that we had a significant lead, enough of a lead that we're still leading the league after 17 games of no KG.

[JBcat]

I'm not so sure the team has regressed.  When I look at this season I see we started off the season 27-2.   Maybe alot of those games weren't pure blowouts but it is still 27-2 and I think the 100% effort was there.  

Then I think with the way the schedule was playing out we played the most games out of every team in the league at the time.  Ray said that at one point it was the toughest stretch of games in his career. I think the schedule and lack of practice time caught up to them and we went through a 7 loss in 9 game stretch.  6 of those losses were on the road and only 2 I would say were blow out losses by 10 points and more.   We were lucky to not go through a stretch like this last year but most teams even championships teams go through this.  

 Then you can't overlook injuries.  KG looked like he was playing hurt much sooner than when he started to miss games.   The overall player games missed to injury is much higher than last year.  Not to mention players playing hurt.  Paul had that mysterious hand injury he was playing through the beginning of the year.  Rondo has been playing through his ankle problems and we don't know what other nagging injuries players might have.   Ray with that elbow problem at one point?

Not only is Cleveland and Orlando better this year but I think the Eastern conference as a whole is better than last year.  

The point differential this year is 8.1 verses 10.3 of last year not a big deal in my mind when considering all of the factors I mentioned above plus the fact teams generally get up for for chamionship teams.  Also individually I would say Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Perkins, are all individually having better seasons than last year.  Obviously we need KG 100% come playoff time and we'll be ok.  
 

[Drucci]

It's always nice to read an optimistic spin but the "heart of a Champion" factor is wildly overrated: in the last decade, only teams with a prime Shaq won back-to-back titles (and in the previous one it was Jordan and Hakeem).

This team has a decent chance of repeating if healthy because they're good, not because of what they've done last season. They're not as dominant as last season because they've slightly regressed (especially defensively) while other teams have improved, but being as dominant as last season isnt' a sine qua non condition to win the championship.

I don't think they have regressed defensively, they're just not as focused as last year, which explains that they are less dominant because they are not playing 100% every night. When they had to step up defensively they did so this season but I acknowledge that they seem to rely on their offensive game a little bit more (and they should sometimes considering how dangerous they are in this area).

Sorry, but it doesn't really matter if you think they regressed or not, it's a matter of fact; your thoughts don't change what objective metrics say. What you're trying to argue is why they regressed, not if they regressed.

Do you have any evidence that the regression is due to that factor and, more importantly, that the team can "turn it on" for the playoffs? Generally, it doesn't happen that way. Teams increase their intensity and focus during the playoffs but so do their competitors: that's why the efficiency margin during the regular season is such a robust predictor of playoff success.

For example, Lakers fans use a very similar argument to yours: they argue their team proved that, when it matters, when they needed it, they stepped up on defence and that most of the season they've been coasting - and once playoffs start, they can get back to the kind of defence they played in the first months of the season and during the "statement games".

IMO, the explanation is more simple: Garnett is older and played less, Pierce has been tired, Rondo has been up and down defensively and we replaced minutes used by good defensive players with players who are not so good on that side of the floor.

Well, I'd like to hear your evidences about the team's regression because, based on objective facts, I don't see a regression. Maybe the statistics will show that they score less points per game and tank more points but it's not a big difference which could explain a "regression". Sure, the team is less dominant than last year but the results are still here and you can't overlook the fact that their opponents, especially in the East, have improved. Plus, the loss of KG, the DPOY, for a long part of the season, just gives more credit to the team's record of this season. Going from a 66-16 season with a healthy roster to a probable 64-22 season with key players hurt is certainly not what we can, in all objectivity, call regression. The others teams have improved a lot, the C's have lost a part of their superb but still they are well positioned to repeat (assuming that KG will play in the playoffs).

[TruthSerum]

The dynamics of getting to the top are very different from staying at the top & fighting contenders. You have to have a good reason for NOT ceding the dominant position, and all its rewards, when you live in a world where what goes up must come down. What would be the rewards for the Celtics and fans with a repeat? How can you be as hungry as you were last year when you got what you wanted? The goal was clear last year, not so clear this year. If the goal is merely to puff up our Celtic pride then it's not enough to retain the championship. Players love the game and love to win, but winning has to mean something. Two rings is twice as many as one, but I think that a champion always has to improve his/her game & sportsmanship and hone timing, which is everything.  A champion can't even entertain the thought of losing. As Yoda said, "Do or do not. There is no try." But if you've done your best and still come out second, or third, there's a greater wisdom at work, and it shouldn't be considered losing if you've improved significantly over previous performances.