Author Topic: Udoka Facing Suspension/Udoka to Nets??  (Read 57380 times)

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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #510 on: September 23, 2022, 02:39:08 PM »

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https://twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1573363205468000256?t=2q14WpVFHUFeHW17ujPXDg&s=19

Yikes. You know its bad when Matt Barnes retracts his statement of support for Ime.

We're in for a bumpy ride, folks.

That is the most insight anyone has given so far.

A 1 minute twitter clip with no details. And yet ... it gives you more of a feel for what happened than any of the other reports or that team press conference.

Thanks for posting that.

I've always felt that there would be another shoe to drop in this situation. I'm starting to believe that the press conference was so vague because the team is preparing for legal ugliness.

I knew watching the press conference that it was bad.  Wyc and Brad weren't faking their emotion, nor did I get the sense that this was PR-driven.  They both thought that whatever happened was serious.  Wyc confirmed that there were at least two violations of rules, but it could be more than that; he used the term "volume".


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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #511 on: September 23, 2022, 02:48:00 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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There is a lot more to this. Boston trying to keep a lid on it all but Ime did more than consensual sex. And I think harassment is just the start of it all.

Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #512 on: September 23, 2022, 02:52:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I have a hard time understanding what circumstance / offense is so bad that it warrants a 12 month suspension but does not warrant being fired.

I also have a hard time accepting / trusting a serious (huge) suspension of 12 months without any real details of what wrong-doing has occured. How can one trust 12 months is appropriate without any details? Why not 1 month? why not 3 months? or 6 months? or 24 months? Or being fired?

Justice behind closed doors. No transparency. This is not good enough.

Is there any suggestion that more information will be coming in the future? That clarity over wrong-doing will be given?

What's wrong with justice behind closed doors, particularly if the presumptive victim doesn't want to go public?  It's a private company involved in a potential lawsuit.
I'm with you on that thought, but not the next one as the 2 previous posters have said. This is not like breaking a public law. This is an internal team rule that was broken. Celtics do not owe anyone outside the team anything.

The private company part is interesting. I have to think about that.

I don't really consider the Boston Celtics and public figures within the team / coaching staff along the same lines as I do as an unknown worker in some corporate office.

These guys are such huge public figures. Especially the players. To a lesser extent the head coach & GM. We the fans pay so much money for TV subscriptions, tickets, merchandise. I expect some transparency when it involves one of these people who are part of the reason I spend so much money following the team. When it involves those guys, there should be more transparency over why such a position was taken and why this punishment is appropriate.

I don't expect the same transparency over unknown workers in a corporate office. With a worker I figure they have the court systems to go if they have been wronged.

Maybe that is wrong to view them differently but I do. A public figure you pay money to follow versus unknown workers behind closed doors.

Maybe it is wrong I don't care more about the unknown worker.

Well then you should adjust your expectations. This is a private company, they do not owe us any explanations. The money we pay is for watching the games and purchasing team apparel. That's it. We get what we pay for. It's a product and we receive the product. No different than paying a lot for an iPhone or an automobile or anything else. Those companies do not owe us explanations on why they take internal disciplinary actions either unless they break any laws.

To be 100% honestly I kind of think this point is just plain wrong. Sure, its a private company. Its a private company with a significant public facing component. The product is, at least in part, the organization itself. Which makes it VERY different than the above examples mentioned. When we pay to see a game, or buy a hat part of what we're buying is association with the organization itself. That's why you see all these commercial spots fawning over the Celtics rich history because they are, in part, selling you on the organization.

So yes, they absolutely 100% do owe us an explanation. Because fans deserve to know what kind of organization they are associating themselves with. That doesn't mean we need to know every detail, the C's should not in any way out the women involved for example. But there 100% needs to be more info than "Ime did something wrong this summer."

Now maybe there are legal reasons why for now this can't be discussed further, if so fine. But failing that this is a bad look right now.
The vast majority of the staff of the Boston Celtics do not have anything to do with the public facing component.  The rules broken clearly involved one such person.  So it is in fact a private company.  The only reason you know about this at all is because one of the public facing persons was involved, but if this same thing happened with two people that worked in the finance department, no one would know about it at all. 
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #513 on: September 23, 2022, 02:55:34 PM »

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https://twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1573363205468000256?t=2q14WpVFHUFeHW17ujPXDg&s=19

Yikes. You know its bad when Matt Barnes retracts his statement of support for Ime.

We're in for a bumpy ride, folks.

Yeesh. That video makes me think there were more women involved with him and/or he got one of them pregnant… hope my gut is wrong.
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #514 on: September 23, 2022, 02:56:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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So an NBA player fails a drug test. The NBA suspends the player, cites the failure of the drug test, names the drugs involved and gives the suspension / punishment which I believe has been agreed to in the CBA.

Quote
DiDi Louzada of the New Orleans Pelicans has been suspended without pay for twenty-five games for violating the terms of the NBA/NBPA Anti-Drug Program by testing positive for Drostanolone and Testosterone, it was announced today by the NBA.

No idea who that suspended player was. Never heard of him before. Brazilian, 6-5 wing, played 12 career games.


I like the clarity here. They named the rule (NBA/NBPA Anti-Drug Program), they explained what the player did to violate that rule (took Drostanolone and Testosterone), and then handed out the punishment (25 games, no pay). I believe the framework for the punishment was agreed to as part of the CBA.

Quote
The Boston Celtics announced today that the team has suspended Head Coach Ime Udoka for the 2022-23 season for violations of team policies. A decision about his future with the Celtics beyond this season will be made at a later date. The suspension takes effect immediately.


Here, with Udoka, they did not name the rules broken ("violations of team policies"). Then they do not say how exactly or what exactly Ime did to break those stated rules. Then we have the punishment. They were in a tough spot because no existing framework. No insight given into how punishment was decided / determined.
That is the league not the team.  That is the difference.  It is the point I've been trying to make for years regarding the off court conduct.  I have always and continue to maintain that the league should only be involved if the conduct affects the actual field of play and anything else should be left up to the team.  Drug use affects the field of play, so the league should monitor and punish for that (since frankly the team has an incentive for its players to use PED's).  And since the league is not the employer, they have to publicize why they are taking action.  This is no different for me as a lawyer.  If I do something that affects my ability to practice law, the State Supreme Court brings a case against me and it is publicized (my employer would also fire me since I can't do my job), but if whatever I'm doing doesn't affect my ability to practice law, then my employer determines if I should be punished or not and that isn't going to be published anywhere.
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #515 on: September 23, 2022, 03:10:40 PM »

Offline ozgod

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So an NBA player fails a drug test. The NBA suspends the player, cites the failure of the drug test, names the drugs involved and gives the suspension / punishment which I believe has been agreed to in the CBA.

Quote
DiDi Louzada of the New Orleans Pelicans has been suspended without pay for twenty-five games for violating the terms of the NBA/NBPA Anti-Drug Program by testing positive for Drostanolone and Testosterone, it was announced today by the NBA.

No idea who that suspended player was. Never heard of him before. Brazilian, 6-5 wing, played 12 career games.


I like the clarity here. They named the rule (NBA/NBPA Anti-Drug Program), they explained what the player did to violate that rule (took Drostanolone and Testosterone), and then handed out the punishment (25 games, no pay). I believe the framework for the punishment was agreed to as part of the CBA.

Quote
The Boston Celtics announced today that the team has suspended Head Coach Ime Udoka for the 2022-23 season for violations of team policies. A decision about his future with the Celtics beyond this season will be made at a later date. The suspension takes effect immediately.


Here, with Udoka, they did not name the rules broken ("violations of team policies"). Then they do not say how exactly or what exactly Ime did to break those stated rules. Then we have the punishment. They were in a tough spot because no existing framework. No insight given into how punishment was decided / determined.

I would suggest that because it was a violation of a team workplace policy, as opposed to a violation of an NBA league-related rule. Like if someone is caught drink driving and their organization suspends them for a few games, as opposed to testing positive for drugs which is a league policy. The team doesn't have to disclose that the player was caught DUI, they just say "suspended for violating team rules". Usually you find out about that stuff from the police.

I'd like them to be more transparent too, so I can understand why they levied what they did, but I can understand why they are not. I'm guessing there is also a legal angle. For all we know the woman threatened a lawsuit and they settled with her out of court and part of the punishment is Ime's suspension and all parties are muzzled by an NDA. That's purely conjecture on my part but it certainly could be a possibility, and they would be under no obligation to communicate that to the public.

I suspect that unless someone does a tell-all in their memoirs or there's a leak from someone with an axe to grind, further official details from the team won't be forthcoming.
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #516 on: September 23, 2022, 03:11:32 PM »

Offline RJ87

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https://twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1573363205468000256?t=2q14WpVFHUFeHW17ujPXDg&s=19

Yikes. You know its bad when Matt Barnes retracts his statement of support for Ime.

We're in for a bumpy ride, folks.

Yeesh. That video makes me think there were more women involved with him and/or he got one of them pregnant… hope my gut is wrong.

My gut feeling is that maybe the relationship stopped being consensual and there was significant harassment at some point. I also think the team tried to handle this privately and internally in July. But Ime didn't heed the warning and it escalated beyond the team's control. Again, that's my gut feeling.
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #517 on: September 23, 2022, 03:29:54 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I have a hard time understanding what circumstance / offense is so bad that it warrants a 12 month suspension but does not warrant being fired.

I also have a hard time accepting / trusting a serious (huge) suspension of 12 months without any real details of what wrong-doing has occured. How can one trust 12 months is appropriate without any details? Why not 1 month? why not 3 months? or 6 months? or 24 months? Or being fired?

Justice behind closed doors. No transparency. This is not good enough.

Is there any suggestion that more information will be coming in the future? That clarity over wrong-doing will be given?

What's wrong with justice behind closed doors, particularly if the presumptive victim doesn't want to go public?  It's a private company involved in a potential lawsuit.
I'm with you on that thought, but not the next one as the 2 previous posters have said. This is not like breaking a public law. This is an internal team rule that was broken. Celtics do not owe anyone outside the team anything.

The private company part is interesting. I have to think about that.

I don't really consider the Boston Celtics and public figures within the team / coaching staff along the same lines as I do as an unknown worker in some corporate office.

These guys are such huge public figures. Especially the players. To a lesser extent the head coach & GM. We the fans pay so much money for TV subscriptions, tickets, merchandise. I expect some transparency when it involves one of these people who are part of the reason I spend so much money following the team. When it involves those guys, there should be more transparency over why such a position was taken and why this punishment is appropriate.

I don't expect the same transparency over unknown workers in a corporate office. With a worker I figure they have the court systems to go if they have been wronged.

Maybe that is wrong to view them differently but I do. A public figure you pay money to follow versus unknown workers behind closed doors.

Maybe it is wrong I don't care more about the unknown worker.

Well then you should adjust your expectations. This is a private company, they do not owe us any explanations. The money we pay is for watching the games and purchasing team apparel. That's it. We get what we pay for. It's a product and we receive the product. No different than paying a lot for an iPhone or an automobile or anything else. Those companies do not owe us explanations on why they take internal disciplinary actions either unless they break any laws.

To be 100% honestly I kind of think this point is just plain wrong. Sure, its a private company. Its a private company with a significant public facing component. The product is, at least in part, the organization itself. Which makes it VERY different than the above examples mentioned. When we pay to see a game, or buy a hat part of what we're buying is association with the organization itself. That's why you see all these commercial spots fawning over the Celtics rich history because they are, in part, selling you on the organization.

So yes, they absolutely 100% do owe us an explanation. Because fans deserve to know what kind of organization they are associating themselves with. That doesn't mean we need to know every detail, the C's should not in any way out the women involved for example. But there 100% needs to be more info than "Ime did something wrong this summer."

Now maybe there are legal reasons why for now this can't be discussed further, if so fine. But failing that this is a bad look right now.
The vast majority of the staff of the Boston Celtics do not have anything to do with the public facing component.  The rules broken clearly involved one such person.  So it is in fact a private company.  The only reason you know about this at all is because one of the public facing persons was involved, but if this same thing happened with two people that worked in the finance department, no one would know about it at all.

Sure, if things were completely different then expectations would be different. But since the person breaking the rules is in fact the face of the organization there needs to be more information provided. At some point the exact nature of what happened is going to come out, better the organization do it than Woj/Shams/Local Reporter.

Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #518 on: September 23, 2022, 03:32:32 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I hate this as it is bad for the organization, victims and the league.   I know the Celtics did their due diligence.

 I really came to like Udoka over time and hope he gets some help and gets another shot.   I am not privy to all the details as I am an out of state fan.  If I knew more details I may change my opinion.

Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #519 on: September 23, 2022, 03:48:35 PM »

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Not to derail the conversation and I understand there is a bigger interest on this story since we are all Celtics fans but I wonder what the national take is on all this. Is everybody else as intrigued as we are about this whole thing? Also, I also find it interesting that this is getting so much more attention than what Favre did which is a pretty deplorable thing.

If you don't know what Favre did, you are proving my point (of not receiving a lot of national attention) then go find out and be disgusted.
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #520 on: September 23, 2022, 03:59:53 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Not to derail the conversation and I understand there is a bigger interest on this story since we are all Celtics fans but I wonder what the national take is on all this. Is everybody else as intrigued as we are about this whole thing? Also, I also find it interesting that this is getting so much more attention than what Favre did which is a pretty deplorable thing.

If you don't know what Favre did, you are proving my point (of not receiving a lot of national attention) then go find out and be disgusted.

The impression I've gotten on social media is that has overshadowed Favre. Not completely surprising considering this country's odd fascination with sex scandals.
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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #521 on: September 23, 2022, 04:00:58 PM »

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Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #522 on: September 23, 2022, 04:03:56 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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https://twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1573363205468000256?t=2q14WpVFHUFeHW17ujPXDg&s=19

Yikes. You know its bad when Matt Barnes retracts his statement of support for Ime.

We're in for a bumpy ride, folks.

Yeesh. That video makes me think there were more women involved with him and/or he got one of them pregnant… hope my gut is wrong.

My gut feeling is that maybe the relationship stopped being consensual and there was significant harassment at some point. I also think the team tried to handle this privately and internally in July. But Ime didn't heed the warning and it escalated beyond the team's control. Again, that's my gut feeling.

Sounds like ^ maybe part of the problem ,  but IF he was stringing along more than one woman , then one or both have have got hurt when they discovered each other and are looking for revenge . Probably sounds like at least one woman’s  old man was a power in the Celtics front office and he might be siding heavy against the Celtics organization.  when she found out Ime was with multiple lovers , she came clean or got caught decided to make good with hubby and let the cat out of the bag.  The whole situation went sideways .  I know that’s why Ime signed contract to prevent this type of thing .   Making Ime walk the plank will put the Celtics behind 10 years again in the eyes of the media as picking on minorities.  Surely he is not the first or last coach .  I d try and negotiate a better outcome for all .

Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #523 on: September 23, 2022, 04:07:50 PM »

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https://twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1573363205468000256?t=2q14WpVFHUFeHW17ujPXDg&s=19

Yikes. You know its bad when Matt Barnes retracts his statement of support for Ime.

We're in for a bumpy ride, folks.

Yeesh. That video makes me think there were more women involved with him and/or he got one of them pregnant… hope my gut is wrong.

My gut feeling is that maybe the relationship stopped being consensual and there was significant harassment at some point. I also think the team tried to handle this privately and internally in July. But Ime didn't heed the warning and it escalated beyond the team's control. Again, that's my gut feeling.

Sounds like ^ maybe part of the problem ,  but IF he was stringing along more than one woman , then one or both have have got hurt when they discovered each other and are looking for revenge . Probably sounds like at least one woman’s  old man was a power in the Celtics front office and he might be siding heavy against the Celtics organization.  when she found out Ime was with multiple lovers , she came clean or got caught decided to make good with hubby and let the cat out of the bag.  The whole situation went sideways .  I know that’s why Ime signed contract to prevent this type of thing .   Making Ime walk the plank will put the Celtics behind 10 years again in the eyes of the media as picking on minorities.  Surely he is not the first or last coach .  I d try and negotiate a better outcome for all .


The only one to blame for this mess is Ime. He's a grown man acting like a teenager.

Re: Udoka Facing Suspension
« Reply #524 on: September 23, 2022, 04:09:40 PM »

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Not to derail the conversation and I understand there is a bigger interest on this story since we are all Celtics fans but I wonder what the national take is on all this. Is everybody else as intrigued as we are about this whole thing? Also, I also find it interesting that this is getting so much more attention than what Favre did which is a pretty deplorable thing.

If you don't know what Favre did, you are proving my point (of not receiving a lot of national attention) then go find out and be disgusted.

The impression I've gotten on social media is that has overshadowed Favre. Not completely surprising considering this country's odd fascination with sex scandals.

Brett Favre is a scumbag, but he’s retired and no longer in the limelight, so the story isn’t getting the attention it should. Not surprised that a sex scandal involving the coach of a team that just made it to the finals, who is also married to a famous actress is going to garner more attention. That’s the world that we live in.
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At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.