CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KungPoweChicken on October 10, 2008, 10:43:27 PM
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How can Rivers defend Scal in his post game interview after the Cleveland game? Rivers, when asked about Scal, said something to the effect that "Scal changed the whole defense around."
When Doc was asked about Miles, Doc bluntly said Miles just played bad. I do not see how Miles got enough playing time to "play badly." I'm not a big Miles fan, nor do I think he will make the team. I just do not see how any coach in their right mind can put down Miles and defend Scal's dismal performance. Scal was a walking disaster tonight on the court. Scal's brand of basketball tonight was hilarious yet embarrassing. Why is Scal being rewarded for atrocious play and Miles being punished for barely playing?
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Both played poorly.
The difference is that one of them has a guaranteed contract and maybe roster spot and the other doesn't have anything guaranteed.
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good question.
i was at the game, and noticed that even the five year olds in my section were yelling for scal to be taken out. pretty bad.
he's become the definition of "laughingstock"
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How can Rivers defend Scal in his post game interview after the Cleveland game? Rivers, when asked about Scal, said something to the effect that "Scal changed the whole defense around."
When Doc was asked about Miles, Doc bluntly said Miles just played bad. I do not see how Miles got enough playing time to "play badly." I'm not a big Miles fan, nor do I think he will make the team. I just do not see how any coach in their right mind can put down Miles and defend Scal's dismal performance. Scal was a walking disaster tonight on the court. Scal's brand of basketball tonight was hilarious yet embarrassing. Why is Scal being rewarded for atrocious play and Miles being punished for barely playing?
Well coaches don't always see the things that fans do in a game simply due to the heat of the moment. That's why there are video sessions nowadays.
But also, Doc and other coaches are known to say bad things about players to motivate them to improve, and giving false ideas to the public is not a bad thing to do on the team's perspective. Maybe Doc and Danny are trying to improve Scal's stocks to trade him.
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you have a point here ::)
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_bDrKGvBI7HMBKa.jzbkF/SIG=13qmokqdu/EXP=1223781450/**http%3A//www.audiobooksonline.com/shopsite/media/Joe_Girard_How_to_Sell_Anything_to_Anybody_cassette.jpg)
sadly i think Scal deserves his own book...lol
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TP for a good thought kw10. If Rivers dogged Scal as he easily could have, then what team would think about trading for him. Even though I know half the league knows Scal is garbage, some team will be dumb enough to accept his contract (bobcats?).
Tony Allen obviously was great, but I would like to see Miles getting more minutes over Scal for experience with the system. I'd hate for him to play in the season and mess up soon and get benched the rest of the time.
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I don't have a problem with the minutes tonight. There's another game tomorrow, and I'm sure we'll see some differences in the minutes played.
I don't know what Doc sees in Scal. Another really bad game.
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ure right theres another game tomorrow
hopefully we will see a LOT more Darius and a lot LESS scali.
just to make a better idea of whats going on.
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ure right theres another game tomorrow
hopefully we will see a LOT more Darius and a lot LESS scali.
just to make a better idea of whats going on.
Hopefully more Darius -- then we'll have the chance to actually lose proper. Darius is gone. Enjoy him while he lasts, because come the start of regular season, he'll be cut.
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ure right theres another game tomorrow
hopefully we will see a LOT more Darius and a lot LESS scali.
just to make a better idea of whats going on.
Hopefully more Darius -- then we'll have the chance to actually lose proper. Darius is gone. Enjoy him while he lasts, because come the start of regular season, he'll be cut.
not enjoying, but no bashing him
just making my judgement
and learning from the only source i trust
like saint thomas
my eyes.
that its already well based around Scals disfunctionality
;)
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ure right theres another game tomorrow
hopefully we will see a LOT more Darius and a lot LESS scali.
just to make a better idea of whats going on.
Hopefully more Darius -- then we'll have the chance to actually lose proper. Darius is gone. Enjoy him while he lasts, because come the start of regular season, he'll be cut.
not enjoying, but no bashing him
just making my judgement
and learning from the only source i trust
like saint thomas
my eyes.
that its already well based around Scals disfunctionality
;)
Your eyes should have told you that the team made a comeback when Scal was on the court. Being a superior individual player only got Cobe and Lebron that far last year, you know...
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The team was plus 12 with Scal on the court, highest on the team. Perhaps Doc saw something. If I had been able to watch the game, I probably wouldn't be focusing on Scal's team defense with all the new guys on the court.
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I find it hard to believe that in the four minutes that Darius Miles was in the game that any of you believe that he deserved not to be ridiculed or given one more minute of playing time. He was two seconds slow on every defensive play, he threw up an air ball that would be an embarrassing shot for an EIGHTH GRADER. He seriously mis-timed his leaps for rebounds and was as out of sync as any player that has worn the Celtics uniform since Gerald Green.
Enough with the remembrances of Darius Miles as the high flying, above the rim living, KG wannabe with attitude that he once was and please people, come to grips with the fact that he isn't making this team and that all your delusions of a man overcoming a catastrophically horrible injury to be the Lazarus of the NBA this year are as far fetched as dividing a number by zero. It's not going to happen.
So why would Doc hammer Miles and support Scal? Because one will make this team and one won't. Because one has a guaranteed contract this year and one doesn't. This was all very easy to see if you just saw what reality put in front of you. Will Miles have a good game before the season starts? Maybe, probably most likely. Will he show that he can consistently put together good game after good game to ensure he makes this team and convinces the management that his knee will be a non-issue? Not a chance in the world.
Wake up Celtic Nation Miles is done. And unfortunately it doesn't matter that Scal doesn't deserve to be on this team, because he doesn't. But his contract will one day be worth something, Miles will never be worth anything. Sad story. Sad reality. But it is the truth as I know it.
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The team was plus 12 with Scal on the court, highest on the team. Perhaps Doc saw something. If I had been able to watch the game, I probably wouldn't be focusing on Scal's team defense with all the new guys on the court.
There was nothing to see. He was bad. So, so bad.
+/- in this case had everything to do with who was on the floor at the same time as him. Both on his team, and for the Cavs.
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I couldn't watch the game but i don't understand why you give 4 min to a guy you are testing...and give those minutes to another guy who is not good enough for this team. Scal is not good enough for the C's, that's all.
My only possible explanation for this is that he tried to motivate Miles somehow...otherwise i ignore the reasons for this
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Doc is easy to figure out. He likes two qualities in a player most and that is one who is smart and two one that knows how to play defense(it is then assumed you are a hard worker).
Scal is our team mascot no doubt but the guy is pretty smart and he is always moving around(looks like he is working hard).
Scal just doesn't have the skills. I noticed some coaches really think skill is everything to being the best team but usually this is never the case. So thats why even though scal might go 0-10 on offense, doc likes him
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I'd say Miles still makes the team period....any of you who oppose such a scenario would be in for a surprise once the season rolls.
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Doc is easy to figure out. He likes two qualities in a player most and that is one who is smart and two one that knows how to play defense(it is then assumed you are a hard worker).
Scal is our team mascot no doubt but the guy is pretty smart and he is always moving around(looks like he is working hard).
Scal just doesn't have the skills. I noticed some coaches really think skill is everything to being the best team but usually this is never the case. So thats why even though scal might go 0-10 on offense, doc likes him
Yeah I agree. Plus its a great possiblity his teammates like him as well and like him better than a Miles at this point since Scal has been here for a few seasons. Now obviously they would be all for it if Miles was way better then I'm sure even then some friendships must be broken for the business part, but we don't see the whole thing, only Scal's awful offense in the games. The thing is Scal won't be a rotation guy it seems so why do we really care? He's a deep bench player that will always come ready to play, won't give you an attitude, just an all around pro about handling his job. He knows his role and fits it.
Okay this is really hard to stick up for Scal I'll admit it after his awful play the past two games, but how many 11 and 12th man are actually even as good as him? Not many if I had to guess, they're all on the same level unless the coaching is just down right mental.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMWt0AcR-ck :P
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The only thing I can figure is that they are already planning on giving Bill Walker the backup minutes at small forward. Which wouldn't be bad, but I'd still like us to keep Miles around as payment for the day when we traded away Brandon Roy for Sebastian Telfair.
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I can't take it. Scal is clearly our worst player, and the two games have shown it so far, but why should Miles be waived only because he has a non-guaranteed contract? Scal must be waived, and the little money we have to pay for his contract is worth it, because Miles is definitely a better player and would make our team better.
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I find it hard to believe that in the four minutes that Darius Miles was in the game that any of you believe that he deserved not to be ridiculed or given one more minute of playing time. He was two seconds slow on every defensive play, he threw up an air ball that would be an embarrassing shot for an EIGHTH GRADER. He seriously mis-timed his leaps for rebounds and was as out of sync as any player that has worn the Celtics uniform since Gerald Green.
Enough with the remembrances of Darius Miles as the high flying, above the rim living, KG wannabe with attitude that he once was and please people, come to grips with the fact that he isn't making this team and that all your delusions of a man overcoming a catastrophically horrible injury to be the Lazarus of the NBA this year are as far fetched as dividing a number by zero. It's not going to happen.
So why would Doc hammer Miles and support Scal? Because one will make this team and one won't. Because one has a guaranteed contract this year and one doesn't. This was all very easy to see if you just saw what reality put in front of you. Will Miles have a good game before the season starts? Maybe, probably most likely. Will he show that he can consistently put together good game after good game to ensure he makes this team and convinces the management that his knee will be a non-issue? Not a chance in the world.
Wake up Celtic Nation Miles is done. And unfortunately it doesn't matter that Scal doesn't deserve to be on this team, because he doesn't. But his contract will one day be worth something, Miles will never be worth anything. Sad story. Sad reality. But it is the truth as I know it.
So Miles is cooked and we're all dumb for thinking otherwise. If it was so obvious to a fan that didn't see him workout then wouldn't it have been obvious to a GM that did, Danny Ainge. In his first 10 minutes in 2 years your telling me that your assessment is that he was a few seconds slow? He must have tricked Danny into thinking he was going to pick up right where he left off 2 years ago.
How about the fact that he was playing with Scal? It was 4 on 5 out there. Scal made everybody worse.
This post reminds me of the bald guy in Princess Bride. Or the harvard guy in Good Will Hunting.
"As far fetched as dividing a number by zero" Let's be totally clear here...Nothing and I mean NOTHING is as far fetched as dividing a number by zero. That my friend is the most outlandish thing a man can do.
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Doc, if you're reading this:
I'D TAKE D-MILES WITH HIS ARMS TIED
BEHIND HIS BACK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!
I don't care if Scal is a great team
mate, he's just a horrible b-baller...
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Okay this is really hard to stick up for Scal I'll admit it after his awful play the past two games, but how many 11 and 12th man are actually even as good as him? Not many if I had to guess, they're all on the same level unless the coaching is just down right mental.
All of them are. In fact the only 2 people that come to mind who may be worse than Scalabrine are Jerome James and Jarron Collins in my opinion. And they're at least both 7 footers. He's utterly horrendous and shouldn't be in the league. He's Steve Scheffler on Seattle in 1996-bad.
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Though I'd be shocked if Scal got cut because of the money the Celts would be on the hook for, Doc has been saying he's going to play the player they're going to cut so that he has 'tape' to show prospective teams. Also, if he plays decent, after watching last nights pregame that's a big IF, DannyA might be able to trade him instead of cut him. My guess is that they are happy ENOUGH with Miles, Doc is dissing Miles (a)as motivation and (b)so other teams don't want Miles as part of a Scal trade.
Thus, I can't believe it but I will suggest it looks like Scals is really gonna be outta here.
Finally, I think the reason I can believe Scals will in the end be flat out cut is that, the Celts front office/ownership can rationalize that even if the money is going to B.Scals bank account, you could just as easily consider that money going 'technically' to D.Miles since D.Miles is almost playing for 'free' this year.
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Scal signed a contract of five years. The fifth year is the team's option. This is his fourth year playing here. It would just be poor business manageent to cut this guy before the trading deadline this year. His contract would be valuable in a trade with any team wanting to cut salary expenses by the season's end. I am sure they ain't crazy about him but how could they cut him with that kind of salary.
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The reason is that Scal, while having a lot of mistakes, was busting his butt the whole time he was out there. Miles seemed afraid to make mistakes. He was standing around on defense and not making plays, offensively or defensively. Maybe Doc was just trying to motivate him, but he didn't look like a Celtic last night.
As far as a team option on Scal's 5th year I've never heard about that. Does anyone have a link that would show that?
Personally, I'd like to see both Scal and Miles get cut and try to sign Bonzi Wells. He's still out there!
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If I were Danny, I would trade/cut BBD and Scal. Keep Miles as our lone SF/PF type off the bench (or find someone else to fill this role), and then look for another PF/C or C type (someone with some length).
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Miles definitely was out of sync last night during his brief stretch, but its to be expected for a player 2 years removed from competitive play and who is not in full game shape yet.
Miles looked solid his first exhibition game, so I don't think last nights game indicates much. Its still going to take Miles a few months to get to 100 percent physically, which Ainge and company already knew.
The idea that "Miles is finished" based off what we've seen is preposterous of course. Celtic management made an informed decision based off all the facts at hand-including the knowledge that Miles would need work to get back up to speed.
He is not a lock to make a team with 16 players on the roster, but he has a better chance than his current on-court level of play would indicate because he's being graded on a curve.
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If I were Danny, I would trade/cut BBD and Scal. Keep Miles as our lone SF/PF type off the bench (or find someone else to fill this role), and then look for another PF/C or C type (someone with some length).
Baby looked better last night, although he still had some bad fouls. It was nice to see that he's developed that midrange jumper. But he's not getting cut. He has value. They may look to package him in a trade, but he played tough defense on Big Z, which is a tall task when you're giving up over half a foot.
In terms of Scal, he plays decent team defense, but he's a horrible rebounder (which is a big part of the defensive end) and pathetic on the offensive end. Doc always tries to mention how smart he is, but he does really dumb stuff offensively. But he's not getting cut. Not with that contract.
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If I were Danny, I would trade/cut BBD and Scal. Keep Miles as our lone SF/PF type off the bench (or find someone else to fill this role), and then look for another PF/C or C type (someone with some length).
Baby looked better last night, although he still had some bad fouls. It was nice to see that he's developed that midrange jumper. But he's not getting cut. He has value. They may look to package him in a trade, but he played tough defense on Big Z, which is a tall task when you're giving up over half a foot.
In terms of Scal, he plays decent team defense, but he's a horrible rebounder (which is a big part of the defensive end) and pathetic on the offensive end. Doc always tries to mention how smart he is, but he does really dumb stuff offensively. But he's not getting cut. Not with that contract.
Even though he does a bad job grabbing rebounds, he does a good job keeping the man he is defending off the boards as well.
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If I were Danny, I would trade/cut BBD and Scal. Keep Miles as our lone SF/PF type off the bench (or find someone else to fill this role), and then look for another PF/C or C type (someone with some length).
Baby looked better last night, although he still had some bad fouls. It was nice to see that he's developed that midrange jumper. But he's not getting cut. He has value. They may look to package him in a trade, but he played tough defense on Big Z, which is a tall task when you're giving up over half a foot.
In terms of Scal, he plays decent team defense, but he's a horrible rebounder (which is a big part of the defensive end) and pathetic on the offensive end. Doc always tries to mention how smart he is, but he does really dumb stuff offensively. But he's not getting cut. Not with that contract.
There are multiple reasons for why I think we should trade/cut BBD. First one is that I think his skills replicate Powe's, and Powe is currently performing better. Secondly, he's undersized. By having undersized PF, it prevents Garnett from playing PF, so if we get more tall people, it'll keep Garnett playing his strongest position.
Garnett should only really be playing center when we go small, and that's when you introduce the SF/PF types. You can make the exception with Powe, but having BBD in there and giving him minutes will certainly diminish Garnett's time at the PF position. Also, a taller player should complement Powe better when he's on the floor.
Now this has more to do with depth because as we currently are, I think POB should be ahead of BBD not necessarily because I think he's more skilled than BBD, but because I think he gives our units a better look and dynamic when considering the rest of our roster.
I'd rather be deep in the center position, and make due with few real powerforwards, and some SF/PF types. In all, I don't like BBD as our 4th option for a center (Perk and POB are ahead of him, and Garnett is forced to play center because of BBD's height).
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If I were Danny, I would trade/cut BBD and Scal. Keep Miles as our lone SF/PF type off the bench (or find someone else to fill this role), and then look for another PF/C or C type (someone with some length).
Baby looked better last night, although he still had some bad fouls. It was nice to see that he's developed that midrange jumper. But he's not getting cut. He has value. They may look to package him in a trade, but he played tough defense on Big Z, which is a tall task when you're giving up over half a foot.
In terms of Scal, he plays decent team defense, but he's a horrible rebounder (which is a big part of the defensive end) and pathetic on the offensive end. Doc always tries to mention how smart he is, but he does really dumb stuff offensively. But he's not getting cut. Not with that contract.
Even though he does a bad job grabbing rebounds, he does a good job keeping the man he is defending off the boards as well.
I don't really agree with that. I don't mean that he's just a horrible rebounder statistically. I think he's a bad rebounder, period. He may have some good box out technique, but his lack of athleticism leaves him vulnerable to losing his man, and he contantly tries tipping the ball instead of grabbing it, which is a recipe for disaster if you have no jumping ability.
Scal's biggest value to this team is his ability to player decent team defense, and his individual defense on other teams power forwards and some centers. But aside from that, he's a huge liability.
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I think miles has a good chance of staying with boston since ti seems that they want to trade a player who has "value" and can play. Dmiles still is recovering which seems to keep him away from that boat. Scal is safe also since he has the skill of a bear playing basketball, but I think a trade like scal/baby is likely or scal/pruitt. :-\
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Scal needs to practice taking layups and forget fancy moves inside. That shouldn't be asking too much, should it?
Scal USED to protect the ball well, as a veteran should, but his execution and decision-making the past two games indicates that he's lost that part of his game. His in-bounds pass to Pruitt's ankles almost cost us the game...A repeat of his TO's which helped us lose game one too!
Clearly Scal is feeling too much pressure to perform...Doc should assure him that he won't be cut and then witness how much he improves....but don't hold your breath!
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Scal will oneday coach this team. Don't forget that Scal aced Danny's personality test.....
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a few thoughts:
1)I know players have tons of pride, and I'm not suggesting he IS doing this, but if I were Scals, and I am as bright a guy as people claim, and I knew there was a [dang]ed good chance I could get a second ring and more free champagne, maybe I wouldn't look so hot to enhance my chances of being traded IF I didn't think they'd cut me because of my contract size. Maybe Danny A's personality test got tricked because Scal is really an evil genius who outsmarted the personality test ;)
2)I think Big Baby AND Leon Powe complement this team well as a tandem, when you need a more agile guy put in Powe, when you need meat, but in Baby.
3)Remember, the celts WILL blow out a decent amount of teams this year, and GARNETT WILL NOT need to play some fourth quarters. I don't think we should worry about Garnett's time in the regular season, Doc has said he's going to control the Big 3's time leading up to the playoffs MORE carefully this year. Thus when Garnett is not needed based on who the opponent is and who on the Celts has the hot hand you have either Perk or Patty O'B at Center and Big Baby or Leon Powe at PF.
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Scal is an amazingly bad NBA player. I really can't figure out why he is even in the league. He does not have a single useful skill. He's been missing wide open layups that high school kids make regularly. I really am amazed at how bad he is.
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If I were Danny, I would trade/cut BBD and Scal. Keep Miles as our lone SF/PF type off the bench (or find someone else to fill this role), and then look for another PF/C or C type (someone with some length).
Baby looked better last night, although he still had some bad fouls. It was nice to see that he's developed that midrange jumper. But he's not getting cut. He has value. They may look to package him in a trade, but he played tough defense on Big Z, which is a tall task when you're giving up over half a foot.
In terms of Scal, he plays decent team defense, but he's a horrible rebounder (which is a big part of the defensive end) and pathetic on the offensive end. Doc always tries to mention how smart he is, but he does really dumb stuff offensively. But he's not getting cut. Not with that contract.
Even though he does a bad job grabbing rebounds, he does a good job keeping the man he is defending off the boards as well.
I don't really agree with that. I don't mean that he's just a horrible rebounder statistically. I think he's a bad rebounder, period. He may have some good box out technique, but his lack of athleticism leaves him vulnerable to losing his man, and he contantly tries tipping the ball instead of grabbing it, which is a recipe for disaster if you have no jumping ability.
Scal's biggest value to this team is his ability to player decent team defense, and his individual defense on other teams power forwards and some centers. But aside from that, he's a huge liability.
The numbers back this up. He does a good job keeping the man he defends off the boards.
Scal is an amazingly bad NBA player. I really can't figure out why he is even in the league. He does not have a single useful skill. He's been missing wide open layups that high school kids make regularly. I really am amazed at how bad he is.
Yet he keeps he player he is guarding below their averages at PF. When he started for KG during that stretch last year, what was the Celtics record?
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Yet he keeps he player he is guarding below their averages at PF. When he started for KG during that stretch last year, what was the Celtics record?
Yeah, those 15 minutes a game while he started really kept the Celtics afloat.
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Yet he keeps he player he is guarding below their averages at PF. When he started for KG during that stretch last year, what was the Celtics record?
Yeah, those 15 minutes a game while he started really kept the Celtics afloat.
The reason Scal doesn't get cut isn't complicated. He can fill in at three different positions without hurting the team. Those 15 minutes a game did help, Soap. All sarcasm aside.
Last season it finally occurred to Scal that he can't shoot so he didn't. He's an effective defender. Both individual and team. He tries to do more than he's capable of every preseason. He doesn't during the regular season. Therefore, he doesn't hurt the team when he's on the court.
He probably won't be resigned by anybody after his contract expires. He probably won't dress most nights. But he isn't going anywhere this year.
Everybody on the roster is probably a better individual player than Scal. But they're not all better for this team.
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Because Scal played great defense last night, and Miles looked terrible? It's not that complicated. The whole team played MUCH better defense when Scal was in there, and he played pretty much flawless team defense himself. Miles on the other hand looked slow, lost, and uninterested.
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When Miles on is on the court you can see pain in his face... I think he and is trivializing how bad his legs really are.
I have defended Scals many times... and I understand this is the preseason... But he is looking really, really, really, bad out their. Some really bad turnovers, airballed layups, bad passes. He looks off his game.
And I can't stand it when people heckle him at home.. he's a [dang] Celtic!!! and you can tell it really throws him off his game.
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I have defended Scals many times... and I understand this is the preseason... But he is looking really, really, really, bad out their. Some really bad turnovers, airballed layups, bad passes. He looks off his game.
As someone else who has defended Scal, I agree with this. He has looked even worse than normal offensively this year. Although he still brings excellent defense, which puts Doc in a difficult position.
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Doc is a master motivator.
He's defending Scal because he has to...the guy must be borderline suicidal at this point.
He's dogging Miles because he has to - we really need him to perform well to succeed this year, and he's always been a negative-reinforcement type of guy.
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What is the benefit of bad mouthing a guy whose contract you are trying to move. Should be obvious that Miles will get the same tough love that TA got until he proves he can make a difference on the team. He has not done that yet; but would be surprised if he did not get a chance tonight.
Perhaps Scal is tanking because he does not want to get traded ;)
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Doc is a master motivator.
:D ;D :D ;D An absolute myth in epic proportions. You don't motivate anybody by trashing them in the press. That's something that Rivers has always done with his bench players. But never the team's best players. It's a chicken%&*% approach to motivation. He won a championship with an idiot-proof roster and the best defensive coach in basketball. He seems like a good person. But let's not get carried away. He ain't the second coming of Red. He ain't the second coming of KC for that matter.
I doubt anybody is trying to move Scal's contract. It would have been done a long time ago if they were. He's not going anywhere. There are times when he's embarassing to watch. But most of the time he isn't hurting the team when he's on the court. Defensively, he's always helping the team when he's on the court. Last season he didn't try to do too much and was an asset. It's preseason. Where everybody tries to do too much.
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Doc is a master motivator.
:D ;D :D ;D An absolute myth in epic proportions. You don't motivate anybody by trashing them in the press. That's something that Rivers has always done with his bench players. But never the team's best players. It's a chicken%&*% approach to motivation. He won a championship with an idiot-proof roster and the best defensive coach in basketball. He seems like a good person. But let's not get carried away. He ain't the second coming of Red. He ain't the second coming of KC for that matter.
I doubt anybody is trying to move Scal's contract. It would have been done a long time ago if they were. He's not going anywhere. There are times when he's embarassing to watch. But most of the time he isn't hurting the team when he's on the court. Defensively, he's always helping the team when he's on the court. Last season he didn't try to do too much and was an asset. It's preseason. Where everybody tries to do too much.
That's odd that you would say that, because Tommy Heinsohn would always talk about how Red would never yell at Bill Russell, and would instead take it out on other players.
It doesn't make much sense to criticize how Doc treats his players when they all seem to love him and play hard for him. Whatever he's doing, it's working. Even when the team stunk, they still played hard.
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That's odd that you would say that, because Tommy Heinsohn would always talk about how Red would never yell at Bill Russell, and would instead take it out on other players.
It doesn't make much sense to criticize how Doc treats his players when they all seem to love him and play hard for him. Whatever he's doing, it's working. Even when the team stunk, they still played hard.
An apples to oranges comparison in so many ways. When Doc's team sucked, they tanked. The players may have played hard but the intent from "coaching" was to lose. The first three years were a disgraceful display of one-way basketball with no direction. What35, can you picture Red conceding a single posession, let alone half a season? Is one of Doc's current players, especially one of his bench players, (if he wants a roster spot, that is) supposed to say anything but the notion that he loves Doc? What he's said about players after they're no longer Celtics is classless.
Please find an article where Red trashed individual players in the press. You won't. Do it in practice. Don't browbeat players on the court and don't trash them in the press.
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That's odd that you would say that, because Tommy Heinsohn would always talk about how Red would never yell at Bill Russell, and would instead take it out on other players.
It doesn't make much sense to criticize how Doc treats his players when they all seem to love him and play hard for him. Whatever he's doing, it's working. Even when the team stunk, they still played hard.
An apples to oranges comparison in so many ways. When Doc's team sucked, they tanked. The players may have played hard but the intent from "coaching" was to lose. The first three years were a disgraceful display of one-way basketball with no direction. What35, can you picture Red conceding a single posession, let alone half a season? Is one of Doc's current players, especially one of his bench players, (if he wants a roster spot, that is) supposed to say anything but the notion that he loves Doc? What he's said about players after they're no longer Celtics is classless.
Please find an article where Red trashed individual players in the press. You won't. Do it in practice. Don't browbeat players on the court and don't trash them in the press.
I'll get right on that buddy. I'll go track down all those Boston Herald column's from the early 60's. And if Jeff or one of the Mods can locate the Celticblog archives from back then as well. Talk about apples and oranges. ::)
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I'll get right on that buddy. I'll go track down all those Boston Herald column's from the early 60's. And if Jeff or one of the Mods can locate the Celticblog archives from back then as well. Talk about apples and oranges.
My point is, you won't find one, 35. Putting Rivers and Auerbach in the same post is silly enough. To compare how they interracted with players is sillier.
I'm guessing the reason that Rivers doesn't trash Scal is that he likes what Scal brings to the court. That's why Scal isn't going anywhere. As far as the other role players, Rivers should keep that in the locker room.
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As much as I still believe Scal is one of the worst NBA players I have ever seen, when it comes to the great Miles/Scal debate, I am neutral. Who really cares about the 14 or 15th player on this team? I can't see either onr dressing for a game at this point. Short of an injury, I see them sitting on the end of the bench in street cloths as Scal did during the playoffs last year.
My guess is Scal stays, due to his contract, but doesn't see the court.
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That's odd that you would say that, because Tommy Heinsohn would always talk about how Red would never yell at Bill Russell, and would instead take it out on other players.
It doesn't make much sense to criticize how Doc treats his players when they all seem to love him and play hard for him. Whatever he's doing, it's working. Even when the team stunk, they still played hard.
An apples to oranges comparison in so many ways. When Doc's team sucked, they tanked. The players may have played hard but the intent from "coaching" was to lose. The first three years were a disgraceful display of one-way basketball with no direction. What35, can you picture Red conceding a single posession, let alone half a season? Is one of Doc's current players, especially one of his bench players, (if he wants a roster spot, that is) supposed to say anything but the notion that he loves Doc? What he's said about players after they're no longer Celtics is classless.
Please find an article where Red trashed individual players in the press. You won't. Do it in practice. Don't browbeat players on the court and don't trash them in the press.
compeltly your biased opinion, and the only thing you say you'll accept as evidence to the contrary doesn't have any shot of existing outside offline newspaper archives. talk about an air tight argument. ::)
Doc, from all information sources we have, is a great players coach and motivator. all the negitives you attrubte to him here are your opnion, which your entitled to, but don't qoute them as gospel with no backup but your take on the matter to us and then dismiss all counter claims by saying we need to go and find something in print from the 60's to back up any counter claim we choose to make.
Doc and red are diffrent animals, and of course doc isn't close to acheiving what red did, nor being the same kind of coach. but this whole post is ridiculous to make about a NBA champion coach. To accept your criticisms, i have to accept that
A) all celtics players are flat out lying to protect the team image when the credit doc with being a good coach
B) rivers somehow is the worst coach ever, but he lucks into an NBA championship
c) he has no effect on the team he coaches, since by your argument, that would make them terrable. instead the players run the team with none of docs terrable input.
color me unimpressed by the logic here.
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I heard Tommy say the same thing. I pretty much doubt Tommy would lie about Red so I don't think you need to track down any actual articles. I've heard Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells say the same thing as well. It's a very common practice. May not seem fair but, you know what they say about life... In fact Doc does just the opposite a bit too much for me but, and in the end I think that is why everyone loves Doc he's the same with Pruitt and Miles as he's been with Paul. He changed Paul's game for the better and he deserves kudos for that.
About Scal do you really think Doc would just praise him if he was as worthless as people think or do you think we might be reading box scores a bit too much? There are a bunch of things that don't show up in box scores that are important. Not that I don't curse him out occasionally myself but, I have to admit that I can't see the game from a coach's perspective either.
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Times have changed a lot since Red's coaching days. As well as the pro sports players psyche. I think Red wouldn't have much of a problem bashing his players in the press if he was coaching nowadays. Except Russell, of course; I don't see Russell as someone who would handle this kind of stuff in a nice way...
This is a very mundane thing to say, but players are individuals and they react in different ways to different approaches. Some guys respond well to harsh criticism, others not so much.
I see Doc as a very good coach all-around, but he has a history of excelling when it comes to motivating players.
Of course that when you are primarily focusing on developing and showcasing youngsters, you aren't properly coaching to win. Some may call it tanking, and I'm okay with that. What shouldn't be overlooked, I think, is that it is extremely difficult to bring your guys to play every night (a very underrated skill in a team), to bring the effort every game, when you are coaching under those conditions and most of your players are mediocre/average. Doc has coached some very untalented teams, especially the one in the year before the last, but they always showed up consistently and played every night. Without that, Ainge wouldn't be able to make the trades that put the C's on the top.
p.s. - oh, answering the OP question, probably Doc was simply stating the truth. Scal is the 2nd best defensive player in our bench so I don't see this as surprising.
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I see Doc as a very good coach all-around, but he has a history of excelling when it comes to motivating players.
Ask Tank McGrady
Ask Horace Grant
Ask Darrell Armstrong
Ask former Celtics whom he's trashed either during and/or (worse) after their Celtic tenures.
Neither of the top three players have any history of having trouble with coaches before or after Rivers.
Can you picture Red conceding a single posession, let alone half a season?
Rivers tanked half a season. Sure his players played hard. But many of those games were manipulated by Rivers for losses. I watched the games.
That speaks to integrity.
Like I said in an earlier post. He seems like a decent guy. But he ain't Red. Let's not bestow god-like status to Doc Rivers.
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I see Doc as a very good coach all-around, but he has a history of excelling when it comes to motivating players.
Ask Tank McGrady
Ask Horace Grant
Ask Darrell Armstrong
Ask former Celtics whom he's trashed either during and/or (worse) after their Celtic tenures.
Neither of the top three players have any history of having trouble with coaches before or after Rivers.
Can you picture Red conceding a single posession, let alone half a season?
Rivers tanked half a season. Sure his players played hard. But many of those games were manipulated by Rivers for losses. I watched the games.
That speaks to integrity.
Like I said in an earlier post. He seems like a decent guy. But he ain't Red. Let's not bestow god-like status to Doc Rivers.
because every player who ever played for red never had an off year or didn't turn into a superstar.
and again, your using a statement that enver occured (rivers is better or equal to red) to bash doc for no reason and then hide behind the "well, im only doing this because people are putting him on a god like pedestal" which no one was.
again, no one said anything about doc being the second coming of red, but don't hide behind red's skirts as the reason your going on a doc bashing spree.
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No, Crownsy. All I'm doing is easily refuting the silly notion that Doc Rivers is the Zig Ziglar of the NBA. Rivers has strengths or Danny wouldn't have hired him. But being a master motivator? ;D
His best quality last season and hopefully this season is delegating the defense to somebody who actually can coach defense. Garnett and Posey were two big reasons the defense improved last season. But the biggest reason is that they were actually running an NBA defense instead of the trash gimmick defense they were running the previous three. You could put Garnett, Camby, Duncan, Bowen, Artest and Bryant on the same team and run the blitz full time and you'd still get lit up.
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No, Crownsy. All I'm doing is easily refuting the silly notion that Doc Rivers is the Zig Ziglar of the NBA. Rivers has strengths or Danny wouldn't have hired him. But being a master motivator? ;D
His best quality last season and hopefully this season is delegating the defense to somebody who actually can coach defense. Garnett and Posey were two big reasons the defense improved last season. But the biggest reason is that they were actually running an NBA defense instead of the trash gimmick defense they were running the previous three. You could put Garnett, Camby, Duncan, Bowen, Artest and Bryant on the same team and run the blitz full time and you'd still get lit up.
so since you just said doc's only contribution was not running the defense, how are you not doing exactly what i said and not giving him one iota of credit again?
and considering every player who plays for him says his biggest strength and keeping them motivated and focused, what, outside your opnion that thier all lying to cover doc's behind, do you have to offer that he's not a great motivator?
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Big Baby seemed to be motivated by Doc's public call out.
Why can't we pay Scal's contract and trade him to the Net's or someone who wants cap space? Kind of like how we traded Manny.
We could get a 2nd round pick and open up a roster spot instead of having that waste of space out there.
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WOW, Steve!!
Manny was a malcontent who was the Sox' best player and one of the best hitters in baseball. But a locker room cancer.
Scal, according to most in here, is the worst player in NBA history. Let alone on the Celtics. But a good guy.
Neither trade would help for salary cap reasons. If you'll notice, (with the glaring exception of VanHorn), the Nets are looking for players who can actually play basketball while clearing cap space. According to you and 90% of the posters, Scal can't. So he isn't going to the Nets. The reality is he won't get traded or cut until the last year of his contract. If Danny was as determined to do either as CelticsBloggers are, Scal would have been gone a long time ago.
He's a lot more valuable member of the Cs than most people in here give him credit for. Even the world's greatest motivator of men is complementary of Scal. Who are we mere dumb fans to refute the master motivator's word? ;D