CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Kane3387 on January 22, 2013, 10:29:08 AM
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Now I do think he has to say this publicly because he is trying to keep any leverage he might have in ongoing and future negotiations. That being said I am sure it is no secret around the league that we are open for business.
“Realistically, I don’t see major changes coming,” said Ainge, well aware that market factors and the Rubik’s Cube difficulties of finding a transaction that meets the needs of two teams at the same time conspire against blockbuster trades.
http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/01/ainge_too_soon_big_changes
It not a huge secret that Celtics president Danny Ainge and his staff have been kicking the tires on their options for most of the past month. The Celtics have always been aggressive about shopping the marketplace, but despite rampant speculation that Boston might move one of its core pieces like say a Paul Pierce, Celtics sources say that unless it returned a bona fide All-Star of Pierce’s stature in return moving him was not in the cards.
The Big Three Will Not be moved because the return doesn't justify the move this season. Maybe the off-season if at all.
The Celtic chips most teams are talking about are guards Courtney Lee ($5 million), forward Jeff Green ($8.35 million) and forward Brandon Bass ($6 million). None of them are overly impressive in a trade on their own; however, any combination of them could get a salary high enough for a more significant deal. The problem is the reason the Celtics want to move them is they have been underwhelming this season and that’s really driven down their trade value.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-would-the-celtics-trade-paul-pierce/
Like some on this board have said. The chips we have aren't desirable. They're playing poor ball and are signed to long deals. Too much investment and not enough return for teams to give anything of quality for.
Connect the dots and we don't have anything we are willing to move and that people want, to bring in a player(s) that will make a difference on this team.
“Not all the players are not playing hard, and all of the players are playing hard most of the time,” Ainge said in the wake of a third straight loss that leaves the Celts at 20-20 heading into tonight’s game here against the Cavaliers. “It’s not like everybody is showing up to the gym and nobody is playing hard. That’s never the case. It’s just frustrating that there are fractures in the effort.
“It’s a different guy each possession sometimes. As you watch the film of the game, it’s a different guy. It’s not like there’s one guy who’s not playing hard. On all these plays, there will be like one guy who’s just not trusting the assignments or who’s taking a shortcut. That’s just not what it takes to win, and our expectations are higher.
“We know that this team is talented, but even with that, there have been a lot of disappointing games this year,” said Ainge. “And that’s been a pattern over the last three years. That’s what I know. And our team has responded well in the playoffs. But we’ve played down to the level of our competition sometimes, and that’s been frustrating.”
http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/01/ainge_too_soon_big_changes
Looks like Ainge believes this team can still get it done. Even if it means waiting until the post season. I think that's a risk, but we might not have any other options because there are likely no deals out there unless AB, Sully, or one of the Big Three are being moved and I doubt Ainge does that. Likely because no deal becomes available to justify doing so.
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Also doesn't look like we have anything, we are willing to move, that the Lakers would be looking for in return for Pau.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Trade market for Pau Gasol complicated because Lakers have made clear that they don't want back long-term money in deal, league sources say. Even the Lakers - flush with cash - don't want the tax burden of Dwight Howard (assuming he signs), Kobe Bryant and a third massive salary. Twitter @WojYahooNBA
I could potentially see Dallas as a spot for him though. I wish there was a way Ainge could have signed a lot of our guys to shorter deals.
Update: Miguel Angel Paniagua: Rumor with some legs from Charlotte: Bobcats could be considering a trade package of DeSagana Diop, Ben Gordon and a draft pick for Pau Gasol. Twitter @pantxopaniagua
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I agree that outside of including AB/Sully, there isn't much value with Lee, Green, Bass and Terry. Lee has improved and maybe increased his value a little bit, but not sure what you can get for those guys.
I don't think Ainge saying he doesn't expect any moves, means that the C's will stand pat. We obviously know Ainge isn't going to say 'Yea, Doc is right we need to make some trades.' He is working the phones like a madman right now, without a doubt. He just doesn't have very attractive chips to offer other teams. I mean, do you think any team wants 3 years of Brandon Bass and Jason Terry? 4 years of Jeff Green @ 9 million per? Lee, I can see some value there, but what can he bring back?
It's tough because in the offseason, after all the moves, we thought this team was stacked with talent/trade chips, but now everyone is under performing and I can't see any team willing to take on any of our underachievers. It's one thing if the guys I mentioned were on one year expiring deals, then you have legitimately attractive chips, but these guys have 3-4 year contracts which really hurts their value, on top of playing poorly.
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I think we will add some buy out guys, but that's it. We are going to have to figure things out with what we have.
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There is no way he would come out and say a huge trade is probably gonna happen.
Hopefully something is in the works though, because we look awful.
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There is no way he would come out and say a huge trade is probably gonna happen.
Hopefully something is in the works though, because we look awful.
Like what?
With the way teams are in regards to the cap... I mean who do you really think we can get for these guys? You're watching how they have been playing. Well, so are all the GMs and owners.
I don't think Ainge is going to move Sully and AB. He could but I doubt it.
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What's with the "No Trade Likely" title to this thread?
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
Right, and all he is doing is citing the rule of averages. Yeah, trades are hard to do, and chances are, a big one won't happen. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying really, really hard.
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What's with the "No Trade Likely" title to this thread?
Lol better?
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
Right, and all he is doing is citing the rule of averages. Yeah, trades are hard to do, and chances are, a big one won't happen. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying really, really hard.
Bingo. He is trying. His hands are tied with underachieving players with multi-year contracts. It will be incredibly difficult to pull off a big move, but he is most definitely trying.
Unless Pierce/AB/Sully are involved, anything major has a very small chance of happening. And equally, trading one of those three has an even smaller chance of happening IMHO.
How much value does Fab Melo have? Or a mid to late 1st rd pick in what will be a very poor draft? Ainge doesn't have much bargaining power at the moment.
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
True but outside of the Perk deal he really hasn't made major trades since acquiring KG and Ray. Nate for spare parts wasn't really that big of a deal. With all the rumors that fly around though I am sure he is active. I mean he has to be. No way the media just makes up all those conversations.
Still I find it unlikely he gets to move the pieces he wants to move for what he is looking for in return, before the deadline.
Just hard to move role players on long term deals. Especially when all these guys are considered to be underperforming.
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Just the GM saying what he needs to say.
I dont see him saying, "this team stinks we are actively looking to trade anyone and everyone."
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I agree with Ainge. I'm sure that if there were a trade available that he felt would significantly improve the team, he would do it. Realistically, I don't see a ton of scenarios that fit that description, either.
Don't be too shocked if he picks up a couple of looking-for-a-job free agents and calls it good.
Personally, I'm happy to go into the playoffs with this roster and see what they can do.
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Realistically, i don't see us winning a championship this year with this team.
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He'll either make a small change or two or none. But , I'd bet my paycheck if a REAL impact BIG like Smith, Love, Cousins, ect becomes available ...Danny will pull the trigger with only Pierce and KG protected.
Since the C's don't seem likey to go far with what they have (based on results so far) , don't think that will stop him from going after a star...
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Also doesn't look like we have anything, we are willing to move, that the Lakers would be looking for in return for Pau.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Trade market for Pau Gasol complicated because Lakers have made clear that they don't want back long-term money in deal, league sources say. Even the Lakers - flush with cash - don't want the tax burden of Dwight Howard (assuming he signs), Kobe Bryant and a third massive salary. Twitter @WojYahooNBA
I could potentially see Dallas as a spot for him though. I wish there was a way Ainge could have signed a lot of our guys to shorter deals.
Update: Miguel Angel Paniagua: Rumor with some legs from Charlotte: Bobcats could be considering a trade package of DeSagana Diop, Ben Gordon and a draft pick for Pau Gasol. Twitter @pantxopaniagua
I wonder if what I heard on the radio this morning has an impact? Pau's 19 mil comes off the books at the same time as lebron's deal in MIA. Connect the dots and it might make some sense.
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I just think that we can't take anything from what DA says in public about the possibility of trades. It isn't in our best interest to light up the neon sign open for business.
I don't think this statement has anything at all to do with the reality behind the scenes.
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There is no way he would come out and say a huge trade is probably gonna happen.
Hopefully something is in the works though, because we look awful.
Like what?
With the way teams are in regards to the cap... I mean who do you really think we can get for these guys? You're watching how they have been playing. Well, so are all the GMs and owners.
I don't think Ainge is going to move Sully and AB. He could but I doubt it.
Is it 2001? Sully and/or AB for this years Rogers and Delk? That didn't work then, wouldn't work now. I think Danny knows that.
Of the others on the roster, I don't see realistic trades that really help the C's short or long term. Maybe Danny finds something by the deadline, I doubt he will.
OTOH, this group *has* gone as far as it is going to go. Even if it catches fire if won't get all the way through the playoffs to the finals, much less win them. Maybe they can eek into the playoffs and give Sully, AB and (maybe) Melo some experience this year, but I think the rebuild has started and its pace will accelerate.
Last time Danny kept Pierce and Rondo as building blocks and everyone else was an asset to be traded for KG/Allen. This time maybe it's Rondo and...??? Maybe it's not even Rondo. And I don't know who the targets are...no idea. I don't expect the big deals to happen this year, though. Next summer, maybe, the summer of 2014 is more likely.
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Also doesn't look like we have anything, we are willing to move, that the Lakers would be looking for in return for Pau.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Trade market for Pau Gasol complicated because Lakers have made clear that they don't want back long-term money in deal, league sources say. Even the Lakers - flush with cash - don't want the tax burden of Dwight Howard (assuming he signs), Kobe Bryant and a third massive salary. Twitter @WojYahooNBA
I could potentially see Dallas as a spot for him though. I wish there was a way Ainge could have signed a lot of our guys to shorter deals.
Update: Miguel Angel Paniagua: Rumor with some legs from Charlotte: Bobcats could be considering a trade package of DeSagana Diop, Ben Gordon and a draft pick for Pau Gasol. Twitter @pantxopaniagua
Wow, I can not believe that's something the Lakers would do.
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I just think that we can't take anything from what DA says in public about the possibility of trades. It isn't in our best interest to light up the neon sign open for business.
I don't think this statement has anything at all to do with the reality behind the scenes.
The thing is though, Danny never even says he isn't open for business. All he really says is the trades are hard to do in the NBA. He is stating the obvious and trying to quell fan expectations.
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Also doesn't look like we have anything, we are willing to move, that the Lakers would be looking for in return for Pau.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Trade market for Pau Gasol complicated because Lakers have made clear that they don't want back long-term money in deal, league sources say. Even the Lakers - flush with cash - don't want the tax burden of Dwight Howard (assuming he signs), Kobe Bryant and a third massive salary. Twitter @WojYahooNBA
I could potentially see Dallas as a spot for him though. I wish there was a way Ainge could have signed a lot of our guys to shorter deals.
Update: Miguel Angel Paniagua: Rumor with some legs from Charlotte: Bobcats could be considering a trade package of DeSagana Diop, Ben Gordon and a draft pick for Pau Gasol. Twitter @pantxopaniagua
Wow, I can not believe that's something the Lakers would do.
Depends on the pick. If they are getting the Bobcats lottery pick this year (not sure if they can trade that, since they owe a future pick to the Bulls), then it makes some sense. Gordon is a quality player who comes off the books next year, and would be a great fit in the D'Antoni system, and Diop is an expiring deal.
Considering the way they have killed Pau's value, I could see that being the type of offers they are getting. Quality starter/expiring contract/lottery pick.
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Also doesn't look like we have anything, we are willing to move, that the Lakers would be looking for in return for Pau.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Trade market for Pau Gasol complicated because Lakers have made clear that they don't want back long-term money in deal, league sources say. Even the Lakers - flush with cash - don't want the tax burden of Dwight Howard (assuming he signs), Kobe Bryant and a third massive salary. Twitter @WojYahooNBA
I could potentially see Dallas as a spot for him though. I wish there was a way Ainge could have signed a lot of our guys to shorter deals.
Update: Miguel Angel Paniagua: Rumor with some legs from Charlotte: Bobcats could be considering a trade package of DeSagana Diop, Ben Gordon and a draft pick for Pau Gasol. Twitter @pantxopaniagua
Wow, I can not believe that's something the Lakers would do.
Depends on the pick. If they are getting the Bobcats lottery pick this year (not sure if they can trade that, since they owe a future pick to the Bulls), then it makes some sense. Gordon is a quality player who comes off the books next year, and would be a great fit in the D'Antoni system, and Diop is an expiring deal.
Considering the way they have killed Pau's value, I could see that being the type of offers they are getting. Quality starter/expiring contract/lottery pick.
Yeah I guess if that turns out to be the number one pick that would make it a good deal for the Lakers.
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Also doesn't look like we have anything, we are willing to move, that the Lakers would be looking for in return for Pau.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Trade market for Pau Gasol complicated because Lakers have made clear that they don't want back long-term money in deal, league sources say. Even the Lakers - flush with cash - don't want the tax burden of Dwight Howard (assuming he signs), Kobe Bryant and a third massive salary. Twitter @WojYahooNBA
I could potentially see Dallas as a spot for him though. I wish there was a way Ainge could have signed a lot of our guys to shorter deals.
Update: Miguel Angel Paniagua: Rumor with some legs from Charlotte: Bobcats could be considering a trade package of DeSagana Diop, Ben Gordon and a draft pick for Pau Gasol. Twitter @pantxopaniagua
Wow, I can not believe that's something the Lakers would do.
Depends on the pick. If they are getting the Bobcats lottery pick this year (not sure if they can trade that, since they owe a future pick to the Bulls), then it makes some sense. Gordon is a quality player who comes off the books next year, and would be a great fit in the D'Antoni system, and Diop is an expiring deal.
Considering the way they have killed Pau's value, I could see that being the type of offers they are getting. Quality starter/expiring contract/lottery pick.
Yeah I guess if that turns out to be the number one pick that would make it a good deal for the Lakers.
And a horrible trade for the Bobcats. Attaining Gasol goes against everything they've been doing the last few years.
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I wonder if Denver would trade Iguodala for Pau Gasol. They badly need some skilled size to balance their frontline and create good spacing for their perimeter players.
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Realistically, i don't see us winning a championship this year with this team.
Do you always know who will win the title by the middle of the season?
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I wonder if Denver would trade Iguodala for Pau Gasol. They badly need some skilled size to balance their frontline and create good spacing for their perimeter players.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=az4kd28
Gasol and Sacre for Iggy and Mozgov.
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
Right, and all he is doing is citing the rule of averages. Yeah, trades are hard to do, and chances are, a big one won't happen. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying really, really hard.
This. It's like when he denies Rondo trade rumors... he says things like:
"I anticipate Rondo being here for a long time". Sounds convincing.
Only after the rumors got so strong last year that his value was getting trashed did Ainge have to come out and say "Rondo is not being traded" to stop the bleeding....
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
Right, and all he is doing is citing the rule of averages. Yeah, trades are hard to do, and chances are, a big one won't happen. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying really, really hard.
This. It's like when he denies Rondo trade rumors... he says things like:
"I anticipate Rondo being here for a long time". Sounds convincing.
Only after the rumors got so strong last year that his value was getting trashed did Ainge have to come out and say "Rondo is not being traded" to stop the bleeding....
I remember reading somewhere that those rumors were started by teams hoping to trade for Rondo to a) lower his value and b) alienate Ainge and Rondo so I'd take most of the rumors with a rather large grain of salt.
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
Right, and all he is doing is citing the rule of averages. Yeah, trades are hard to do, and chances are, a big one won't happen. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying really, really hard.
This. It's like when he denies Rondo trade rumors... he says things like:
"I anticipate Rondo being here for a long time". Sounds convincing.
Only after the rumors got so strong last year that his value was getting trashed did Ainge have to come out and say "Rondo is not being traded" to stop the bleeding....
I remember reading somewhere that those rumors were started by teams hoping to trade for Rondo to a) lower his value and b) alienate Ainge and Rondo so I'd take most of the rumors with a rather large grain of salt.
Point is how Ainge chooses his words, not the rumors themselves.
The phrase "realistically, I don't see major changes coming" means almost literally nothing regarding the Cs hopes or intentions.
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Boy I hope he's fronting. If not, this team as is, isn't winning jack.
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Danny says this literally every year, both before the draft and near the trade deadline.
Right, and all he is doing is citing the rule of averages. Yeah, trades are hard to do, and chances are, a big one won't happen. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying really, really hard.
This. It's like when he denies Rondo trade rumors... he says things like:
"I anticipate Rondo being here for a long time". Sounds convincing.
Only after the rumors got so strong last year that his value was getting trashed did Ainge have to come out and say "Rondo is not being traded" to stop the bleeding....
I remember reading somewhere that those rumors were started by teams hoping to trade for Rondo to a) lower his value and b) alienate Ainge and Rondo so I'd take most of the rumors with a rather large grain of salt.
And that was planted by Ainge to try to increase Rondo's trade value.
Seriously, Danny discusses any deal that he thinks can make the team better. The problem is, those deals are not easy to make, because the other team is trying to improve too.
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I agree with Ainge. I'm sure that if there were a trade available that he felt would significantly improve the team, he would do it. Realistically, I don't see a ton of scenarios that fit that description, either.
Don't be too shocked if he picks up a couple of looking-for-a-job free agents and calls it good.
Personally, I'm happy to go into the playoffs with this roster and see what they can do.
Whatever he does,IMHO, its just not worth trading away any young guys who are likely to get better, have great attitudes and are already good, to possibly make us better for one year. PP and KG are in decline so imho this is a one year window, with them, at best. Nothing can nearly guarantee a title now, unless some center would come here who plays like a veteran Shaq. It just doesn't exist.
So who are the young untouchables? I'm just not going to be down with letting Avery or Sully go, but that is it. Rajon has too many issues. Lee just isn't good enough. And Green isn't either. Letting Melo go could end up being a huge mistake but no one could know that so Id let him go but I doubt he is worth anything to anyone else.
I guess above all else, Danny did all kinds of maneuvering starting the summer after the title year to prepare for last summer. Avoiding taking on long contracts like Posey, like Perkins, like Baby, and picking up vets like JO, Shaq, and Sheed. Its VERY discouraging to see what we have to show for that right now.( Although I have to admit to thinking last summer went well. I'm not trying to be GM. I just as a fan don't want to lose Avery and Sullinger.)
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I agree with Ainge. I'm sure that if there were a trade available that he felt would significantly improve the team, he would do it. Realistically, I don't see a ton of scenarios that fit that description, either.
Don't be too shocked if he picks up a couple of looking-for-a-job free agents and calls it good.
Personally, I'm happy to go into the playoffs with this roster and see what they can do.
Whatever he does,IMHO, its just not worth trading away any young guys who are likely to get better, have great attitudes and are already good, to possibly make us better for one year. PP and KG are in decline so imho this is a one year window, with them, at best. Nothing can nearly guarantee a title now, unless some center would come here who plays like a veteran Shaq. It just doesn't exist.
So who are the young untouchables? I'm just not going to be down with letting Avery or Sully go, but that is it. Rajon has too many issues. Lee just isn't good enough. And Green isn't either. Letting Melo go could end up being a huge mistake but no one could know that so Id let him go but I doubt he is worth anything to anyone else.
I guess above all else, Danny did all kinds of maneuvering starting the summer after the title year to prepare for last summer. Avoiding taking on long contracts like Posey, like Perkins, like Baby, and picking up vets like JO, Shaq, and Sheed. Its VERY discouraging to see what we have to show for that right now.( Although I have to admit to thinking last summer went well. I'm not trying to be GM. I just as a fan don't want to lose Avery and Sullinger.)
I don't think Danny will trade Bradley or Sullinger, unless he is getting back a potentially better building block for the future.
So, I think they could potentially be on the table when you are talking about a guy like Cousins (depending on how high he is on Cousins), or maybe Josh Smith, if Danny is really sure he will resign. But I doubt they would be on the table for lesser players or older guys.
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No GM are going to say they are or arent going to trade
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I take whatever Danny Ainge says with a grain of salt. I think there will be a big trade soon.
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I take whatever Danny Ainge says with a grain of salt. I think there will be a big trade soon.
I honestly would be shocked if we did anything major. Maybe Phoenix will let us buy low on Gortat.
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Our basic problem is this: ordinarily a contending team (if you want to call us that) can improve if it can swap some picks or promising rookies for an established star player.
But in our case, the two most valuable young assets we have - Bradley and Sullinger - aren't riding the pine behind the stars. They've become critical to our success this year. So it's very hard to imagine moving them for a net gain, because losing them makes us worse.
Meanwhile our vets - the guys like Bass, Green and Terry who should be making it harder for Bradley and Sully to get minutes - are not only underachieving, but have terrible contracts. We're not getting anything valuable in return for those guys. Heck, we'd probably have to give someone Bradley just as compensation for taking Green's contract.
And, those same contracts make it pretty hard to blow things up. Green, Terry and Bass might be just good enough to keep us out of the lottery even if we trade Rondo and Pierce.
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Realistically, i don't see us winning a championship this year with this team.
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