Author Topic: Mannix on OMF radio show.  (Read 7741 times)

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Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2019, 07:49:43 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Regarding Kyrie and Brown, it’s just a bunch of drama right now and who’s right depends a LOT on who you like.

It’s easy to blame kyrie because he’s the one leaving. It wouldn’t surprise me if both of them were in the wrong. The team chemistry (or the lack thereof) proves it.
- LilRip

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2019, 07:50:44 PM »

Offline umpacu

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First, TP to nick for the summary. Really interesting comments, at least for me. Being in Argentina is kind of hard to keep up with everything that's happening around the Celtics, especially through Boston's radio interviews.

To me, Kyrie thinks he's a lot smarter than what he really is, at least outside the court. And Brown seems like a really intelligent person, but he sometimes doesn't translate that into the court. And both things brought us a lot of problems during this miserable season. The thing is, Jaylen is still young, and I think with more experience he might fix some of them.

Kyrie is a weird guy, who wants to be a leader (with good intentions, for what is worth), but he just sucks at that. Time will tell if he ends up learning from his mistakes, but it feels like this is who he is. His personality, I guess.

It still sucks to lose him for nothing, and to me he's a special player on the court. Ideally, I would like him to come back, figure out things with Brown and Stevens (I honestly don't care about Rozier if he stays) and compete for championships as part of the Celtics. But that's highly unlikely, and this past season was so disappointing, and long, and... sort of a torture, honestly, that it would be a high risk to run it again.

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2019, 07:51:56 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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My guess is Brown challenged Kyrie on and off the floor. Called BS on a lot of what Kyrie said about the team as well as real world issues.

Kyrie got mad and took his ball and went home.

What I find most interesting is that Marcus Smart publicly backed Kyrie at the time Kyrie and Brown were having a public spat.  Tells me all I need to know about who was right (Kyrie) and who was being a baby (Brown).
I think Marcus was just trying to hold everything together at that point.
Agree. He was trying to salvage Irving’s return. Team guy.

Ya, I also don't particularly trust guys who punch picture frames to be the voice of reason. I don't think Smart siding with Irving (if you wnat to call it that) means Irving was more or less right. Because then you have to wonder if Smart sided with Irving, but Irving disliked Stevens, did smart agree with that position? I doubt it. Its all very confusing.

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2019, 08:07:08 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Also, on leadership, I think outside of LeBron, NO ONE would’ve been able to handle this team from a leadership perspective. Not KD, Curry, Kerr, Popovich, Kawhi, Lowry, etc. etc.

Our situation entering this year was u had vets who wanted PT, young guys who (deserved and) wanted PT, contract chasers who wanted PT, and sky high expectations off the bat. Everyone wanted to lead, everyone wanted to follow, everyone wanted to win their own way. You could see how these off court things would manifest in selfish basketball, lackadaisical effort, and lack of focus. People who were “coachable” last year suddenly were significantly less so.

Did kyrie go about it the best way? Probably not. But there was no path to success anyway.
- LilRip

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2019, 08:12:00 PM »

Offline footey

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Well if all of what was said on that show is true, maybe it is just better for KI to move on anyways.

DA isn't getting rid of Stevens no matter what, and highly unlikely he is trading away one of our top players who is on a great rookie contract right now.  It just sucks that the C's couldn't get something back in return for Kyrie leaving.

With all the other reports linking KI to the Nets, his new agent, and him supposedly moving out of his house....well it looks like a done deal.

If Kyrie came into Ainge's office and said, "If you trade away JB and don't re-sign Terry, I will stay," you would have to do it, right? I get that this is extremely unlikely - this is more of a 'take care and good luck' meeting - but it would be pretty easy to clean up the mess if all Kyrie wants is to replace a couple of the young guys with veterans.

I like Brown as a person WAYYYYY better than Kyrie and still believe in his potential, but Ainge needs to be all-in on keeping Kyrie if there is even still a smidgen of hope.

It depends on BS and DA's evaluations of Kyrie and if getting rid of those two players would really clean up the locker room, or if it just pushes the the KI conflicts to next year with some other players. 

Kyrie Irving is a great player, but he isn't so great that he can poo-poo the regular season and just walk us to a title. 

I mean look what happened this year in the playoffs vs the bucks.  It wasn't all Kyrie's fault, but he is / was our best player.  Some of it (more than any other player) probably comes down on Kyrie.  When he is shooting 25% from the field in 3 straight playoff games and just overall playing poorly a portion of the blame lies with him.
But Kyrie’s conflict with Stevens would not be resolved. Danny’s loyalty to Brad has not wavered. Kyrie must go.

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2019, 08:17:52 PM »

Offline ozgod

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So I try to avoid talk radio like crazy but turn to WEEI just as Ordway, Merloni and Fauria started an interview with Chris Mannix. He said a bunch of interesting stuff.

The Celtics and Kyrie have had no contact in weeks. He thinks Kyrie is gone but...it's Kyrie, so who knows.

Kyrie didn't like the control Stevens had on the team and Stevens game in and game out philosophy. Stevens wants to win every game and get better every game whereas, Kyrie want to float during the season then turn it on late and in the playoffs.

Kyrie and Brown's relationship was terrible and caused problems.

Ainge never really made a formal offer but discussed different forms of an offer with New Orleans. Mannix thought Ainge would offer Tatum for Davis but only Tatum and filler and no where close to the draft package that LA gave them. There would be no Tatum + Brown or the Memphis pick.

By salary filler he meant Marcus Smart who was definitely on the market.

He doesn't see anyway Ainge goes after Capela or Conley due to salary reasons.

He thinks a new Horford 3 year deal gets done, maybe by this weekend but if they are in negotiations, could get an extension on Horford's opt out date and finish it before the end of the month.

He sees no way Hayward is moved as his value across the league is too low to get anything back resembling value.

He thinks Rozier might be an option to return but only if they feel they can resurrect his game, attitude and relationships on the team back to where he was during the 2018 playoff run. Rozier was a major problem last year.

At that point, I got out of the car so he might have had more to add. You can probably find the interview on WEEI.com if you want to give a listen. It was refreshing since WEEI has so few good Celtic spots on their shows.

I was just watching Mannix and Forsberg on Early Edition tonight and they said pretty much the same thing. I always thought that when Kyrie said "the young guys" he was referring to Brown and Rozier. Because Kyrie gets on well with Jayson, who is his closest friend on the team and he's taken on somewhat of a mentor role which Tatum has been receptive to. I guess the other two got a bit cocky after the ECF run. Plus they were the ones whose roles suffered the most - their roles shrank while Tatum's increased, which probably stuck in Jaylen's craw because he has a year's seniority on Tatum. Though to be honest Brown's role was really taken by Smart and Mook, he couldn't really blame Kyrie for that.

So Brown and Rozier are a couple of punks and we're stuck with them.

I wouldn't say they were punks, they just struggled to cope with the hands they were dealt this year. I think they tried their best, I don't think either of them ever complained, but at age 21, 22, for players who expected to play starring roles, you can't blame them for being frustrated with their roles and probably that frustration came out in passive-aggressive ways.

Quote
"It's probably been the hardest thing I've had to deal with so far in my career,” Brown told MacMullan. “Just coming from a position where you had so much responsibility, and now that responsibility is lessened. Expectations have been raised, but your responsibility goes down, so it's hard to reach those expectations when you aren't being asked to do as much.”

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/alex-reimer/jaylen-brown-says-demotion-bench-hardest-thing-hes-ever-dealt-career

In a way if they weren't frustrated you would wonder if they weren't ambitious enough, if they had the drive to succeed and be the best versions of themselves.

I think Jaylen eventually dealt with it better, he grew from frustration to acceptance and once he realized that he would get more touches in the 2nd unit than the first, and that playing with Gordon meant he would get the ball in scoring positions more, he learned to deal with it. Terry probably let it change the way he played a bit too much, he looked like he was rushing things all year.

It's all part of the growth that young players have to go through, just like the rest of us in life have to deal with setbacks. It's just unfortunate that it was one of the factors that torpedoed our season.

As for Kyrie, I think he tried his best but he just didn't know how to deal with it. He hadn't exactly had to deal with the experience previously and it was a learning experience for him too. It's unfortunate that it appears the experience was so offputting that he just wants to move on but different people respond to failure differently.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2019, 08:21:21 PM »

Offline footey

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Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.
Yeah I’m surprised some want to twist this into a Jaylen Brown as the problem. He corrected a bad start and finished better than anyone in playoffs including Kyrie and Tatum, yet he was the problem. Not buying. 

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2019, 10:34:04 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.
There's more evidence that multiple players had a problem with Brown than there is evidence of multiple players having a problem with Kyrie.

- Jackie mac article talks about Marcus Smart screaming at Brown

- Mid-game we saw Morris shove and scream at Brown

- Mid game we saw Marcus smart scream at Brown

- Mannix claims Kyrie didn't get along with Brown
.....

On the flip side...

Rozier praised Kyrie as a brother/mentor

Morris praised Kyrie as a leader/teammate

Only real conflict Kyrie publicly had was with Hayward... and Brown.

Brown wins for most frienemies. 

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2019, 10:37:50 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.
There's more evidence that multiple players had a problem with Brown than there is evidence of multiple players having a problem with Kyrie.

- Jackie mac article talks about Marcus Smart screaming at Brown

- Mid-game we saw Morris shove and scream at Brown

- Mid game we saw Marcus smart scream at Brown

- Mannix claims Kyrie didn't get along with Brown
.....

On the flip side...

Rozier praised Kyrie as a brother/mentor

Morris praised Kyrie as a leader/teammate

Only real conflict Kyrie publicly had was with Hayward... and Brown.

Brown wins for most frienemies.
Lol, dude, c'mon.

Anyone can act like they win a debate about something like this if they present only positives for one side and omit all the numerous negatives, while doing the opposite for the other side. Talk about dishonesty.

I've defended Kyrie a lot, but this is ludicrous
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2019, 10:54:03 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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If you want to parse praise/problems, Ainge singled out Brown for accepting his role and playing within it.

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2019, 11:13:56 PM »

Offline blink

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Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.
There's more evidence that multiple players had a problem with Brown than there is evidence of multiple players having a problem with Kyrie.

- Jackie mac article talks about Marcus Smart screaming at Brown

- Mid-game we saw Morris shove and scream at Brown

- Mid game we saw Marcus smart scream at Brown

- Mannix claims Kyrie didn't get along with Brown
.....

On the flip side...

Rozier praised Kyrie as a brother/mentor

Morris praised Kyrie as a leader/teammate

Only real conflict Kyrie publicly had was with Hayward... and Brown.

Brown wins for most frienemies.
Lol, dude, c'mon.

Anyone can act like they win a debate about something like this if they present only positives for one side and omit all the numerous negatives, while doing the opposite for the other side. Talk about dishonesty.

I've defended Kyrie a lot, but this is ludicrous

cherry picking at its FINEST!

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #86 on: June 17, 2019, 11:34:48 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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lol so we have the Cal and Duke guys suffering from delusions of grandeur?

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2019, 12:35:41 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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This is going to be a long, miserable season!!!!!!

-Kyrie's gone
-No Conley
-No Capela
-No AD

Where basically stuck with the same team as last year, but without Kyrie.

Wow....where did it all go so wrong?

Don't forget that team last year without Kyrie went to the ECF.  Add a healthy Hayward...Who knows it might surprise you. I loved the grit of that team.

 Here is your first TP!

 My thoughts exactly

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #88 on: June 18, 2019, 12:36:06 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.
There's more evidence that multiple players had a problem with Brown than there is evidence of multiple players having a problem with Kyrie.

- Jackie mac article talks about Marcus Smart screaming at Brown

- Mid-game we saw Morris shove and scream at Brown

- Mid game we saw Marcus smart scream at Brown

- Mannix claims Kyrie didn't get along with Brown
.....

On the flip side...

Rozier praised Kyrie as a brother/mentor

Morris praised Kyrie as a leader/teammate

Only real conflict Kyrie publicly had was with Hayward... and Brown.

Brown wins for most frienemies.
Lol, dude, c'mon.

Anyone can act like they win a debate about something like this if they present only positives for one side and omit all the numerous negatives, while doing the opposite for the other side. Talk about dishonesty.

I've defended Kyrie a lot, but this is ludicrous

If you post that it's sunny today, Larbrd33 will tell you it wasn't really that sunny, and it was more sunny somewhere else, and that it's been sunny less and less often lately, and that it's going to be cloudy for the next week, and that after then the earth will almost certainly crack open, leaving us all to die in a flaming apocalypse.

It's just where he takes things. You just have to learn not to bite.

Re: Mannix on OMF radio show.
« Reply #89 on: June 18, 2019, 12:41:37 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.
There's more evidence that multiple players had a problem with Brown than there is evidence of multiple players having a problem with Kyrie.

- Jackie mac article talks about Marcus Smart screaming at Brown

- Mid-game we saw Morris shove and scream at Brown

- Mid game we saw Marcus smart scream at Brown

- Mannix claims Kyrie didn't get along with Brown
.....

On the flip side...

Rozier praised Kyrie as a brother/mentor

Morris praised Kyrie as a leader/teammate

Only real conflict Kyrie publicly had was with Hayward... and Brown.

Brown wins for most frienemies.
Lol, dude, c'mon.

Anyone can act like they win a debate about something like this if they present only positives for one side and omit all the numerous negatives, while doing the opposite for the other side. Talk about dishonesty.

I've defended Kyrie a lot, but this is ludicrous

If you post that it's sunny today, Larbrd33 will tell you it wasn't really that sunny, and it was more sunny somewhere else, and that it's been sunny less and less often lately, and that it's going to be cloudy for the next week, and that after then the earth will almost certainly crack open, leaving us all to die in a flaming apocalypse.

It's just where he takes things. You just have to learn not to bite.
Sometimes I just can't help myself!
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)