Woj: Jrue to Celtics

[johnnygreen]

Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.

 Relax man. We aren't winning the chip this year without Jrue. We may not win it this year or next,  but definitely not winning it without him.

 If he goes to the Heat we are in trouble. We will now beat the Bucks guaranteed.  We are the second best team in the league as it stands right now.

 Like it or not Brad is playing for Titles. It's not for the weak. Just ask the Bucks. Holiday was the heart if that team.

Who do you have as the best team?

Possibly the defending champions?

[jpotter33]

You also have to wonder if the Timelord situation is similar to the IT situation. He was noticeably less effective and explosive last year after the surgery, and it was unclear whether this was a new normal or part of the recovery process. If this is the new normal for him, then that’s a much less valuable player for us and makes the trade more understandable in terms of the risks we’re taking.

[Birdman]

Right now I rather have Holiday at PG instead of Smart or Brogdon

[Who]

Again...what do you think the Celtics should have done this offseason? What would make you happy?

I had no specific plan to follow.

I would have investigated a Jaylen Brown trade and depending if there was anything there I would have made a move or not. Short of that, I would have largely kept things the same.

I think we all agree they could not stand pat.

No. I do not agree with that. Standing pat and making small changes around the edges was a viable option.

I would have liked to have fired the coach.

[SparzWizard]

Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.

 Relax man. We aren't winning the chip this year without Jrue. We may not win it this year or next,  but definitely not winning it without him.

 If he goes to the Heat we are in trouble. We will now beat the Bucks guaranteed.  We are the second best team in the league as it stands right now.

 Like it or not Brad is playing for Titles. It's not for the weak. Just ask the Bucks. Holiday was the heart if that team.

Who do you have as the best team?

It's no secret that the Nuggets are the best team in the league.

[Who]

Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.

 Relax man. We aren't winning the chip this year without Jrue. We may not win it this year or next,  but definitely not winning it without him.

 If he goes to the Heat we are in trouble. We will now beat the Bucks guaranteed.  We are the second best team in the league as it stands right now.

 Like it or not Brad is playing for Titles. It's not for the weak. Just ask the Bucks. Holiday was the heart if that team.

Who do you have as the best team?

Possibly the defending champions?

It's no secret that the Nuggets are the best team in the league.

I was expecting it to be Phoenix but yeah Denver are a good option also.

[blink]

I didn't expect this.  I just don't think Holiday moves the needle enough to dump the 6th man of the year, and a def game changer Timelord.  We have literally no bench now.  We have two bigs with major injury concerns.

I really hope this works out, I really like Holiday as a player, but I don't like what we had to give up to get him.

Maybe there is a lot of unexplained context here, ie Brogdon was p---ed at being shopped when we got KP.   Maybe Timelord's injury problems are way worse than we think and he isn't going to be able to maintain his athleticism which is his bread and butter.  If we knew for sure those were major issues, then it makes more sense.   On the surface though, many we really killed our depth with this trade.

[theswitch]

Here are my reactions to this morning's news:

1. Oh my god! Jrue has been, like for some others here, my favorite non-Celtic for the last five years. This is incredibly exciting.

2. This almost certainly means we'll stick to the one-big lineup for most of the year and go Jrue - White - Brown - Tatum - Zinger with Pritchard, Hauser, Oshae, Al off the bench rather than a two-big one. That's a little bit of a bummer for me but I think generally is fine. I was excited for the two-big lineup but our biggest weakness was crunch time execution and Rob Williams wasn't helping with that.

3. Depth is an issue, but I'd actually make the argument this makes getting through Tatum or Brown missing 10-20 games much easier than it was before. Jrue and Porzingis can get us through that stretch, they have enough firepower. Smart, Brogdon, Grant, Rob even playing together don't offer enough. They're all too limited. We win more games offensively with Jrue and Porzingis than we do with that group. So quality over quantity will get us through those tough stretches more than throwing slightly above average players at the problem. The team is stronger if someone misses time now than it was before.

4. I made the argument in that other thread that Oshae Brissett is a super important player this year. He's even more important now! Like it or not, he's going to get 20-30 minutes a game at the power forward position. We'll give Porzingis and Al some time together, but for the most part if everyone's healthy they'll take up the center minutes and Oshae will get a lot of power forward run even if Tatum plays there most of the time. He's the only guy really who can even try to match up with someone like Giannis. He's going to be incredibly important. Maybe we pick up a Theis type or trade Pritchard to fill the spot. It's not going to replace Brissett's importance.

5. You're up, Payton and Hauser. Probably Walsh. You've been asking for it so I hope you're ready.

Team A:

Smart, Brogdon
White
Brown, Hauser
Tatum, Grant
Rob, Al

Team B:

Jrue, Pritchard
White
Brown, Hauser
Tatum, Brissett
Porzingis, Al

I'm taking Team B 100% of the time and running with it. Not even close.

[blink]

You also have to wonder if the Timelord situation is similar to the IT situation. He was noticeably less effective and explosive last year after the surgery, and it was unclear whether this was a new normal or part of the recovery process. If this is the new normal for him, then that’s a much less valuable player for us and makes the trade more understandable in terms of the risks we’re taking.

Yeah I just posted something similar to the bolded.  He was still effective last year, but not as dominant as the previous year.  I still hate losing that guy, he gave us a great dimension on defense, and he was always a treat for the lob on the weakside as well.  I really wish we could have found another way to make the trade.

[scaryjerry]

Love jrue and really wanted him but will acknowledge this was a lot to give up for him.
If there was some sort of guarantee timelord was gonna stay healthy and improve on what he was 2 years ago I don’t do this trade but unfortunately timelord was never going to stay healthy

[SparzWizard]

You also have to wonder if the Timelord situation is similar to the IT situation. He was noticeably less effective and explosive last year after the surgery, and it was unclear whether this was a new normal or part of the recovery process. If this is the new normal for him, then that’s a much less valuable player for us and makes the trade more understandable in terms of the risks we’re taking.

Yeah I just posted something similar to the bolded.  He was still effective last year, but not as dominant as the previous year.  I still hate losing that guy, he gave us a great dimension on defense, and he was always a treat for the lob on the weakside as well.  I really wish we could have found another way to make the trade.

The other way would've been to trade Horford... probably not a viable option as he's mentoring the guys and can provide minutes at the 4/5. Or involve a third team which was very unlikely. Timelord who's been injury prone since he got here was the option.

[celticinorlando]

Rob Williams regular season played games:

18-19: 32
19-20: 29
20-21: 52
21-22: 61
22-23: 25

Total: 209 games played out of 410.

He is hurt every season for long stretches.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm surprised, didn't think they'd trade for Holiday. But I like him, he's a very good player.

I hate to lose Rob, because he was my favorite Celtic to watch ... when he actually played, which wasn't often. And I think that if he wasn't injury-prone, he wouldn't have been traded. But since he's guaranteed to miss at least a third of every season, cashing him in for a more durable player is a wise move.

Of course, the frontcourt is paper-thin now, with fragile Zinger and old-man Al the only high-quality bigs. But I'm presuming that Brad has a plan to address that soon. Hopefully.

Also, the bench is pretty thin at the moment. I guess the top three are Pritchard, Hauser, and Brissett? Something else for Brad to address, hopefully soon.

Edit: I was forgetting that with Jrue on board, he might start along with Tatum, Brown, Zinger, and White, which also leaves Al on the bench. Or, if they start two bigs, White or Jrue comes off the bench? Either way, the bench is a bit better than I first realized.

[jpotter33]

Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.

 Relax man. We aren't winning the chip this year without Jrue. We may not win it this year or next,  but definitely not winning it without him.

 If he goes to the Heat we are in trouble. We will now beat the Bucks guaranteed.  We are the second best team in the league as it stands right now.

 Like it or not Brad is playing for Titles. It's not for the weak. Just ask the Bucks. Holiday was the heart if that team.

Who do you have as the best team?

It's no secret that the Nuggets are the best team in the league.

According to who? If im remembering correctly if anything they got worse this off-season losing Brown one of their top rotation players, all while seeing major improvements from other contenders.

They’re clearly at the top of the West with Phoenix, though I think LAL closed some of the gap and LAC could still be up there if they get a point guard improvement and health. But Boston has clearly jumped them and I think Milwaukee has, too, with Phoenix having an argument, as well.

[Yuckabuck33]

Feels like the Kendrick Perkins trade all over again 

Except, what did the Celtics win with Rob? Nothing. Doc's argument about Perk was that the starting 5 of Perk, KG, Ray, Rondo, and Pierce never lost a series. I love the idea of the Timelord, but the reality hasn't been seen for a while.  Plus, idiot Joe never knew how to use Rob.