What are the flaws on Brown really?

[walker834]

All this number crunching is overthinking it imo. I wonder if you compared him to Pierce and did that his freshman year what you guys would come up with.  Jaylen Brown is actually more developed than Pierce was as a freshman.  Each year in college he saw improvement and by his junior year his numbers were up there although not eye popping, but he still slid in drafts.  Jaylen was a guy a lot of people didn't have too high either. 

I think Jaylen has to improve but as a finished product I don't see him having a ton of limitations. I don't see him as a limited player that way.

Jaylen's freshman year of college is somewhere between Pierce's freshman and sophomore year.

[walker834]

Pierce was not a great 3 pt shooter in college either.  He shot about 31 percent.  As a rookie, which would have been his senior year, he was already shooting close to 40 percent from 3 in the pros.  Averaging 16 ppg and about 6 boards.  I think Jaylen probably needs a year or so but he isn't that limited just watching.   He already has a pretty good feel for the game. I know it's summer league but  it was pretty clear just watching him he has a pretty good feel for the game for a freshman out of college.

Give Jaylen time.....  People didn't give AB time.  They aren't giving Smart time either.   In 2 or 3 years Jaylen is going to be a player of Pierce's caliber.  It's difficult with young players but there is something good about Jaylen.

That's Pierce as a rookie too.  Pierce played for us for years. I hope Danny doesn't fall for too much of the media pressure to build a winner and start trading too many of our  young assets.

[sdceltsfan]

Except that he just has to develop? Intelligent kid.  Not arrogant.  Shot well in his workout. His shot is not broken.  It just has to develop.   People see these things as a negative.   People say he can't handle the ball.  Yes he can I've seen him do it.  He can shoot too. He can also jump out of the gym and make tough shots and practices them. He's closer to a guy like Kobe than anything else. I don't know if he has that upside but he really is.

He's 19 years old. The things people are knocking him on are very different than other players who have real flaws in their game.

How quickly people forget the air-balls and wildly missed layups and dunks Kobe was chucking up his first couple years in the league. The difference between when he made a mistake, and 95% of the rest of the guys in the league, was that when Kobe did it, people still went "ooooohhhhh".

The athleticism level Jaylen has truly gives him superstar potential. He doesn't appear to just have that raw, lacking all basketball skill athleticism, that Kedrick Brown had. He has full control on many drives to the basket. He has a balance to his shoulders and squares up when he shoots....it just has a little weird of a release point.

He plays like a 19 year old. Fast, instinct before cerebrum. However, he is also a very cerebral and intelligent human being, which to me, suggest coachability, and not arrogance like many anti-Brown people on this board.

I am more excited to watch him play, than any other part about our season. We have been so spoiled on the Nets trade, which is barely now just coming to it's first fruits, and are totally forgetting to feel the privilege and excitement to watch such a high-potential prospect possibly become our next star.

Call me a kook-aid drinker all you want....I just thought that was part of what being a Celtics fan was supposed to be about. Cheering for our players, including our rookies!

[walker834]

That's the thing I really don't want to listen to Jaylen sucks threads for years when he's 20 years old.  He's a good young player.  That's all I need to know. Pierce never would have been drafted here according to the numbers.

Ainge might start listening to that stuff too and trade a guy like Pierce before he even becomes good. I don't want to see that.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I will add that of those shots at the rim, 48% of Simmons' were assisted (alleyoops, etc.), while only 28% of Brown's were assisted. Having someone else create for you obviously raises your shooting percentage.

Simmons's close scores were unassisted half the time, Brown's were unassisted over two-thirds of the time? That's big difference, isn't it? Does Synergy have their close FG% further parsed into % when assisted versus unassisted?

I don't know. What synergy page are you talking about?

When I get home I will at least take out the assisted makes and see where that leaves the percentage.

[Dino Pitino]

I will add that of those shots at the rim, 48% of Simmons' were assisted (alleyoops, etc.), while only 28% of Brown's were assisted. Having someone else create for you obviously raises your shooting percentage.

Simmons's close scores were unassisted half the time, Brown's were unassisted over two-thirds of the time? That's big difference, isn't it? Does Synergy have their close FG% further parsed into % when assisted versus unassisted?

I don't know. What synergy page are you talking about?

When I get home I will at least take out the assisted makes and see where that leaves the percentage.

Maybe it's not a public page? I know they'd have it. Got a chance to see the whole array of what they track. I think if we wanted to know, say, what Brown's % on contested, assisted pick and roll layups from the right side was in conference play, it'd be a click away.

[EJPLAYA]

Let's be honest. Until we see him playing against actual NBA talent we have no idea what his strengths or flaws are.

[mctyson]

He doesn't project to do anything at an NBA level when he enters the league other than finishing in transition.

He may be able to do other things, but there's no way of saying for sure what those things are.

You are going to be very wrong about that.

[PhoSita]

He doesn't project to do anything at an NBA level when he enters the league other than finishing in transition.

He may be able to do other things, but there's no way of saying for sure what those things are.

You are going to be very wrong about that.

I sure hope so!

His lone game in summer league demonstrated, mostly, his ability to get inside and draw contact.  That is a valuable skill that the Celtics have lacked.

With that said, he turned the ball over a lot in college, and didn't get many assists, and that was when he was operating as the unquestioned number one guy on the team.  He won't have that kind of role clarity on the Celtics.  I'm not sure how often he'll have the opportunity to get the ball and drive into the paint when he's playing with the starters.  Also, I'm not sure how many calls a rookie is going to get.

My concern is that he won't know how to bring value on the floor when he's playing off the ball, unless his jumper really improves rapidly, and when he does have the ball, he'll turn it over frequently and struggle to get the kind of calls that make reckless forays to the rim profitable.


What I like about Brown:

- He projects a certain cool confidence and composure, different than Jeff Green's blank stare
- His first step is real, and his explosion is real
- He has the size and quickness to guard, at least, 2-4, on the ball 1-on-1
- His tools indicate he ought to be a plus on the boards, blocking shots, and getting in passing lanes.
- He plays with aggression and a single-minded desire to get to the hole and draw contact

What I don't like about Brown:

- It's unclear if he will be a reliable spot up shooter in the NBA, let alone have the ability to create shots outside of 10 feet.
- I don't know if he has very good floor vision
- I'm not sure how creative he is at getting to his spots when a straight drive isn't available
- I worry about his effectiveness when he can't get calls or finish inside against bigger defenders
- I don't know what he's like as a team defender, rotating on the perimeter, etc.

[BDeCosta26]

Brown has one major weakness: Outside shooting.

At 19 years old, he has NBA level defense, NBA level driving ability, NBA level athleticism.  IQ is off the charts. Work ethic seems fitting on this team. All that's missing is the outside shot. And that shot isn't broken like MKG's was coming into the league. I think he could be shooting 35% from 3 as early as year 2 or 3.

I'm really high on this kid. Kawhi Leonard like potential.

[clevelandceltic]

Having watch all but about 3 Cal games last year I can say many of the concerns that people have are legit. But there are a couple of things here. First, having seen him in HS a few times, I dont think his Cal experience was totally reflective of what he will be. Yes, at Cal, Jaylen did turn the ball over alot trying to do too much or by going too fast but the assist to turnover ratio issue is skewed. Spacing, personnel, and style of play added alot to this. The thing I never understood about Cal was why they never really played Rabb in the high post or really facing the basket. This ultimately created little movement on the floor. I think this put Jaylen in a position where he was trying to do too much leading to him being wild at times. I think being in Boston helps him a great deal in that he doesnt have to come in and be the MAN although the Boos on draft night could put pressure on him.

Lastly, when I look at Jaylen I see a guy who could be a top 20 player in this league if he ever learns the two dribble pull up and can knock it down. His game is much more old school in that he can post up a little bit, will fight for O boards like a big, etc. Think like early 90s basketball. A two dribble pull up or a crossover to create space to a pull up could make this guy dangerous.

I have been excited about this guy for well over a year. By no means do I feel like I know how he will turn out but, this guy has a real chance based on what I have seen over the last year.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I will add that of those shots at the rim, 48% of Simmons' were assisted (alleyoops, etc.), while only 28% of Brown's were assisted. Having someone else create for you obviously raises your shooting percentage.

Simmons's close scores were unassisted half the time, Brown's were unassisted over two-thirds of the time? That's big difference, isn't it? Does Synergy have their close FG% further parsed into % when assisted versus unassisted?

I don't know. What synergy page are you talking about?

When I get home I will at least take out the assisted makes and see where that leaves the percentage.

Maybe it's not a public page? I know they'd have it. Got a chance to see the whole array of what they track. I think if we wanted to know, say, what Brown's % on contested, assisted pick and roll layups from the right side was in conference play, it'd be a click away.

With the assisted makes taken out, Brown is at 54% at the rim and Simmons is at 61%.

I don't have a membership to Synergy sports yet, so I don't have access to the info. I wonder how much it costs, because it looks interesting.

[PhoSita]

Brown has one major weakness: Outside shooting.

At 19 years old, he has NBA level defense, NBA level driving ability, NBA level athleticism.  IQ is off the charts. Work ethic seems fitting on this team. All that's missing is the outside shot. And that shot isn't broken like MKG's was coming into the league. I think he could be shooting 35% from 3 as early as year 2 or 3.

I'm really high on this kid. Kawhi Leonard like potential.

Based on what?

As I outlined above, I see the athleticism and the ability to attack space with the ball.

We haven't really seen him play defense against quality NBA guys, so that's (1).  You can see he has the physical tools, for sure.  Not sure what kind of defender he is coming in.

As for driving, you need to be more than fast and strong with the ball to finish in the NBA.  Can he finish through contact?  How creative a finisher is he?  How will he adjust when he doesn't get foul calls and he can't muscle through the grown men forming a wall near the rim?

[mrceltics2013]

From what I seen from Summer league he comes off the floor rather slow. When he attacks the basket it's kind of floaty(hang time) instead of thunderous or powerful. This is why they was able to foul him and why the fouls looked so bad on him. He will be afraid to drive eventually because of this IMO

[Chris22]

Simmons beat Brown off the dribble, and Brown recovered and blocked Simmons shot.

That made me smile.