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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 07:25:15 PM

Title: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 07:25:15 PM
Just a gut but I could see Pierce and Bass to the Warriors for Biendrins, Jefferson, and Barnes.

Biendrins and Jefferson both have contracts that expire after next year just like Pierce. I also remember the celtics working Barnes out during the draft even though they had no chance at getting him.

Barnes would simply be a nice asset and make Green more expendable. Maybe Barnes could play some 2 also.

Curry, Thompson, Pierce, Lee, and Bogut is a very solid starting 5 with guys like Jack and Landry off the bench. Bass could come off the bench too and we could get out from under his deal.

Maybe terry instead of Bass works better.

But my dream of trade of KG reuniting in OKC with Perk (assuming we blow it up) kind of needs Terry.  :P
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: hpantazo on January 28, 2013, 07:26:06 PM
I would love to get Barnes for Pierce. That would be awesome! I'm not convinced we can do it though.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Scribbles on January 28, 2013, 07:27:47 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years. The Warriors core players are all in their prime or just entering it, and they're competing already. Their best bet is to sit tight and let it grow just like OKC did.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 07:30:50 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.

They have also wanted to rid themselves of Biendrins for a long time. I am sure they wouldn't mind dumping Jefferson too.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Scribbles on January 28, 2013, 07:32:46 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.

They have also wanted to rid themselves of Biendrins for a long time. I am sure they wouldn't mind dumping Jefferson too.

I modified my post with a reason why.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Who on January 28, 2013, 07:33:57 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years. The Warriors core players are all in their prime or just entering it, and they're competing already. Their best bet is to sit tight and let it grow just like OKC did.
Yep, I believe so too. I think Boston would be looking at a pair of first round picks and/or a lesser prospect like a Jeremy Tyler thrown in there somewhere.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: sofutomygaha on January 28, 2013, 07:34:27 PM
i think you're bang-on, Kane. This makes all the sense in the world
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 28, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
A) no way we get Barnes
B) Jefferson and Bierdinis have terrible contracts for their talent with player options that they will definitely exercise.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: nickagneta on January 28, 2013, 07:36:28 PM
I am sure GS would love to get out from under the remaining contract that Biedrins has and would love to add a veteran presence like Pierce who has a championship pedigree, But to do so at the cost of losing Barnes and adding long term money like Bass', I think, is extremely unlikely.

BTW, could Biedrins, at this point, be considered the worst player in the NBA. Certainly his contract may have been, along with Eddie Curry's, one of the worst contracts in NBA history.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: ScottHow on January 28, 2013, 07:37:46 PM
Barns would be amazing, which means it's not happening.  :(
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 07:39:58 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years. The Warriors core players are all in their prime or just entering it, and they're competing already. Their best bet is to sit tight and let it grow just like OKC did.

That's fair but when teams have a chance it's not crazy to see them go for it. Look at Boston in 2008.

Plus it's a risk in itself when two of your core players have the injury history that Curry and Bogut do.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wnu436

Hollinger loves the trade by the way lol.  ;)

Pierce might actually sign off on it if we are going to blow it up. He gets to go home and make a run at a title. Mark Jackson seems a lot like Doc too. And aren't one of the owners of the Warriors a former Celtic owner?
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: PhoSita on January 28, 2013, 07:40:47 PM
Ainge supposedly loved Barnes around the time of the draft.

But I'm not sure GS feels like they're in "win now" mode enough to give up Barnes for a year or so of Pierce, even if it means they get to dump Biedrins and Jefferson.

Still, seems somewhat plausible for both sides.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 07:43:32 PM
Quote
BTW, could Biedrins, at this point, be considered the worst player in the NBA. Certainly his contract may have been, along with Eddie Curry's, one of the worst contracts in NBA history.

It's in the running. I still think Amare is up there too and Joe Johnson, but they are playing solid right now. In

I remember when Biendrins was a commodity a lot of people on this board wanted. He just disappeared.

GS has gone 3-1 against LAC and has played the Thunder well. Getting Pierce could put them over the top.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Gomesfan on January 28, 2013, 07:44:20 PM
At this point Pierce is "Home"... Boston is Pauls home at this point.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 07:51:34 PM
At this point Pierce is "Home"... Boston is Pauls home at this point.

Lol you know what I mean...

The area where he grew up as a kid.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Smitty77 on January 28, 2013, 07:59:53 PM
Why not just Pierce for Bogut??  GS has won all year without Bogut.  It would be like adding PP for nothing.

Thoughts?

Smitty77
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Rtpas11 on January 28, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
Do you guys ever ask yourselves before thinking about trading Paul Pierce what Kevin Garnett would think??? You do know this team is build around K.G. now & with his no trade clause he'll absolutely retire if Pierce leaves. Look how devastated he was when Ray Allen left. Paul & K.G. aren't going anywhere. The Celtics will never trade them. Other guys will definitely be on the move. Particularly Brando Bass & or Jason Terry
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: ScottHow on January 28, 2013, 08:06:23 PM
Do you guys ever ask yourselves before thinking about trading Paul Pierce what Kevin Garnett would think??? You do know this team is build around K.G. now & with his no trade clause he'll absolutely retire if Pierce leaves. Look how devastated he was when Ray Allen left. Paul & K.G. aren't going anywhere. The Celtics will never trade them. Other guys will definitely be on the move. Particularly Brando Bass & or Jason Terry

Ainge can't hold the franchise hostage worrying about what KG might think
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 28, 2013, 08:08:34 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: hpantazo on January 28, 2013, 08:11:24 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 28, 2013, 08:12:17 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.
we already have an all-star center in KG, we dont need bogut.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: nostar on January 28, 2013, 08:13:23 PM
If this trade was even close to on the table it would have been done on Danny's end. No chance you pass up Pierce for Barnes, even if you have to take on salary to do it.

I don't agree that Pierce would put GS over the top though. It's possible but I think Pierce would be gassed after 2 quarters of the kind of game GSW plays.

Do you guys ever ask yourselves before thinking about trading Paul Pierce what Kevin Garnett would think??? You do know this team is build around K.G. now & with his no trade clause he'll absolutely retire if Pierce leaves. Look how devastated he was when Ray Allen left. Paul & K.G. aren't going anywhere. The Celtics will never trade them. Other guys will definitely be on the move. Particularly Brando Bass & or Jason Terry

Listen to this guy, the new Chad Ford.
Step 1: State all opinions as certainties.
Step 2: Have no idea what you're actually talking about.

I'm sure both Bass and Terry are on the move because they will bring in the big stars for a last title run. If I were a GM I would look at Pierce's cap friendly contract say "no no, he's too important to KG".

Do you ever ask yourself why you're so sure that 2 Hall of Famers won't be traded at the end of their careers? Well you should.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/635205-shaquille-oneal-and-the-most-blatant-ring-chasers-in-nba-history
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 08:29:41 PM
Game slows down in the playoffs and none of GS core players have playoff experience.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: gpap on January 28, 2013, 08:32:55 PM
No thanks. If we make a move I want it to be so it helps us this year.

Not interested in those scrubs from Golden State (except Barnes, but he's still very much a rookie who needs more time to develop.)
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: gpap on January 28, 2013, 08:33:55 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

I agree with that one. I would have no interest in Bogut. The guy gets injured just tying his shoe laces.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: crimson_stallion on January 28, 2013, 08:39:51 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.

Yeah, and when healthy Amare Stoudemire is a top 5 PF in the league as well. 

But umm, they aren't healthy...ever.

We may as well sign Greg Oden to a 6 year max contract.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: ScottHow on January 28, 2013, 08:42:23 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.

Yeah, and when healthy Amare Stoudemire is a top 5 PF in the league as well. 

But umm, they aren't healthy...ever.

We may as well sign Greg Oden to a 6 year max contract.

I'm not sure if Bogut and Oden are the same situation
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Smitty77 on January 28, 2013, 08:47:39 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.
we already have an all-star center in KG, we dont need bogut.

Yes, we have an All-Star center that would PREFER to play his NATURAL position of PF so he can save the wear and tear on his body of trying to box out heavier and stronger centers on a nightly or every other nightly basis!!!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 28, 2013, 08:49:45 PM
Do you guys ever ask yourselves before thinking about trading Paul Pierce what Kevin Garnett would think??? You do know this team is build around K.G. now & with his no trade clause he'll absolutely retire if Pierce leaves. Look how devastated he was when Ray Allen left. Paul & K.G. aren't going anywhere. The Celtics will never trade them. Other guys will definitely be on the move. Particularly Brando Bass & or Jason Terry

A number of pretty definitive statements.  I like the one that reads "he'll absolutley retire if Pierce leaves".   As KG himself says "Anything's Possible" but I doubt KG would retire if Paul is traded.  But most surprising is the manner in which you state your opinions.  Almost like they aren't opinions.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Smitty77 on January 28, 2013, 08:50:41 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.

Totally agree!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Smitty77 on January 28, 2013, 08:54:21 PM
Some on our board need to take the green tinted glasses off when it comes to some of our players, especially Pierce!!

If we can get a 28 year old Bogut that saves us money this year and next year and expires next year, we do it!!

I doubt that GS would do it, but Danny would likely NOT turn that down if they are willing.

Smitty77
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: gpap on January 28, 2013, 08:58:34 PM
Some on our board need to take the green tinted glasses off when it comes to some of our players, especially Pierce!!

If we can get a 28 year old Bogut that saves us money this year and next year and expires next year, we do it!!

I doubt that GS would do it, but Danny would likely NOT turn that down if they are willing.

Smitty77

It depends on what you're getting in return. I would definitely deal Paul for either Gay or Gasol (if the Griz or Lakers were willing.)

But for a player in Bogut who constantly breaks down, I don't see how it helps us.

If anything, Pierce is more durable at 35 than Bogut is at 28.

The guy once missed 3 games because of a paper cut (lol, made that one up.)
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Cman on January 28, 2013, 09:00:47 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.


Maybe 2007?
(Was that the year they shocked the world and beat Dallas, before losing to Utah IIRC?)
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 09:04:31 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.


Maybe 2007?
(Was that the year they shocked the world and beat Dallas, before losing to Utah IIRC?)

They weren't a contender. Had no chance against Duncan.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: fairweatherfan on January 28, 2013, 09:08:59 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.


Maybe 2007?
(Was that the year they shocked the world and beat Dallas, before losing to Utah IIRC?)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pc4vJwVr1qia7cto1_500.jpg)

Still only really a fringe contender, but how many chances do you get to reminisce about Run TMC?
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 09:23:08 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.


Maybe 2007?
(Was that the year they shocked the world and beat Dallas, before losing to Utah IIRC?)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pc4vJwVr1qia7cto1_500.jpg)

Still only really a fringe contender, but how many chances do you get to reminisce about Run TMC?

So the answer is really never. Man that sucks to be a warriors fan.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Who on January 28, 2013, 09:30:24 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.


Maybe 2007?
(Was that the year they shocked the world and beat Dallas, before losing to Utah IIRC?)

They weren't a contender. Had no chance against Duncan.

Or Boozer.

Boozer ate them alive in that second round series. Golden State never stood a chance.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 28, 2013, 09:32:43 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: fairweatherfan on January 28, 2013, 09:36:36 PM
There's no way the Warriors trade Barnes for a 2 year rental on Pierce. The kid looks like he's going to be a star in a couple of years.

Really?

I haven't seen that kind of consistent play. When was the last time the Warriors were ever a contender? I got a gut feeling they will be in the discussion for acquiring Pierce. He is really what they need and compliments their team well.


Maybe 2007?
(Was that the year they shocked the world and beat Dallas, before losing to Utah IIRC?)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pc4vJwVr1qia7cto1_500.jpg)

Still only really a fringe contender, but how many chances do you get to reminisce about Run TMC?

So the answer is really never. Man that sucks to be a warriors fan.

Not really never, they won a ring in the mid-70s, and made a couple deep runs around then too.  So either ~20 or ~40 years, depending on how lenient your definition of contender is.

It's a shame too - I usually like their style of play and they've got great fans.  Glad to see them having some success this year.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 28, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Also to be noted: Bogut might have been the most important Warrior on the floor tonight for them in just 23 minutes, reminds me of Oden's play when he was healthy for the Blazers.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Lucky17 on January 28, 2013, 09:58:24 PM
Just a gut but I could see Pierce and Bass to the Warriors for Biendrins, Jefferson, and Barnes.

Biendrins and Jefferson both have contracts that expire after next year just like Pierce.

Just to clarify: Pierce's last year in 2013/14 is not fully guaranteed, it's a team option.

Jefferson's last year in 2013/14 is a player option. Doubtful he declines it, and passes up collecting $11 million.

Biedrins' last year in 2013/14 is an early termination option (player option). Again, doubtful he exercises it, and turns down $9 million.

So to compare financial obligations in 2013/14:

Pierce: potentially as little as $5 million, as much as $15 million
RJ and Biedrins: a combined $20 million
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: RebusRankin on January 28, 2013, 10:05:22 PM
Loved Run TMC.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 28, 2013, 10:06:31 PM
I think they have a yucky roster for the most part.  I don't see us doing it.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Mr Green on January 28, 2013, 10:46:55 PM
Also to be noted: Bogut might have been the most important Warrior on the floor tonight for them in just 23 minutes, reminds me of Oden's play when he was healthy for the Blazers.

12 points (6/8 from the field), 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 2 assists and a steal in 23 minutes is pretty good for a first game back from injury!
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 28, 2013, 10:53:30 PM
Also to be noted: Bogut might have been the most important Warrior on the floor tonight for them in just 23 minutes, reminds me of Oden's play when he was healthy for the Blazers.

12 points (6/8 from the field), 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 2 assists and a steal in 23 minutes is pretty good for a first game back from injury!

It's pretty remarkable, especially when he's on a limited minutes schedule.

Bogut is injury prone, there is no denying that, but he's not weak, or adverse to playing through pain. Bogut is probably one of the toughest centers in the league (not like MMA tough, but mind over body tough, and loves mixing it up).

Id love to have him. If we got 3 years where he played ~70% of the games, it'd be a heck of a boon.

But I doubt that happens.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 28, 2013, 10:58:35 PM
i still dont get why anyone would want to trade the heir apprentice to larry bird for some random trashy slow center who isnt even half the player that pierce is? is bogut going to be shooting the game winners for us? this has to be a joke thread
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 28, 2013, 11:01:01 PM
bogut SUCKS compared to pierce

when healthy, Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. A defensive force and a great low post scorer, excellent passer as well. The problem is he is never healthy and not the guy I would want to build around. I would go for Barnes. Also, the Warriors gave up Monta Ellis for Bogut because they desperately wanted a low post defensive presence. They won't trade that for a Pierce rental.
we already have an all-star center in KG, we dont need bogut.

Yes, we have an All-Star center that would PREFER to play his NATURAL position of PF so he can save the wear and tear on his body of trying to box out heavier and stronger centers on a nightly or every other nightly basis!!!!

Smitty77
KG has been playing center for 2 years now. He is not going to go back to power forward, he has no lateral movement left to play that position. what dont you understand about that?
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: nickagneta on January 28, 2013, 11:27:23 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.
How exactly can anyone be a fan of a guy that's played exactly 16 games in the last two seasons.

Or a guy that's played almost half of his team's games over the last FIVE seasons?

At the center position he's as close to Greg Oden as you get. Living a reputation based on something he did for a very short time years ago yet is more fragile than glass and has missed the majority of his team;s games over the last FIVE seasons.

I don't care how young he is. He's a bad invest if you are giving up a top 5 player at his position in this league, regardless of age. Bogut is Greg Oden. He's Bill Walton for years after being hurt in Portland. He's Pervis Ellison. He's Danny Manning. He's a HUGELY bad investment.

Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.

CB League isn't real life. I wouldn't invest in him.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 28, 2013, 11:47:31 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.
How exactly can anyone be a fan of a guy that's played exactly 16 games in the last two seasons.

Or a guy that's played almost half of his team's games over the last FIVE seasons?

This is a ridiculous question. I'm a fan of well-cooked cheeseburgers that have a high enough fat content and are cooked slowly enough so that they remain tender without necessitating exposing yourself to food poisoning and questionable sanitation habits involved in a rare-medium burger. I'm a fan of watching the Naked Gun for the millionth time with good friends and better beer even though I know every single line by heart. You can be a fan of corny movies and burgers so bad for you they give you diabetes before dessert of you like having them in your life.

The question you should've asked is 'why would you believe in a guy like Bogut, or be satisfied if your team invested in him?'

And you know the answers to that. His injuries have been frequent, but mostly unrelated. His chronic ailment is bad luck.

His positives are intelligence, heart, and the track record to show he can be an elite rebounder, elite defender, elite passer (for the center position) and adaquate offense player in those rare instances when he's been healthy.

He's also a tough and determined leader. The kind of guy you want on your team.

Quote
At the center position he's as close to Greg Oden as you get. Living a reputation based on something he did for a very short time years ago yet is more fragile than glass and has missed the majority of his team;s games over the last FIVE seasons.

No. He did it longer and better than Oden, and his injury history is very different in terms of causality.

Quote
I don't care how young he is. He's a bad invest if you are giving up a top 5 player at his position in this league, regardless of age. Bogut is Greg Oden. He's Bill Walton for years after being hurt in Portland. He's Pervis Ellison. He's Danny Manning. He's a HUGELY bad investment.

You may be right in terms of results. He's a 'wait and see' player. Wait, and, we'll see. Either he'll shake his bad luck, or he won't. You obviously believe he won't. I think he could, and has a pretty justifiable upside if he does. If in 2 years he still can't get healthy, I'll owe you a beer.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 28, 2013, 11:49:47 PM
Well, we'll see how the rest of the season plays out for the Dubs, then we'll talk.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 28, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.

CB League isn't real life. I wouldn't invest in him.

Whoa whoa whoa. Three points:

1) If you recall, I did not invest in Bogut this past summer. I understand the downside.

2) and if it was real life, my boys are sitting atop the regular season standings right now.

3) seriously, how much would you have loved to have Chandler Parsons over S-Jax? It's that kind of insight that bears acknowledgment.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 28, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Dubs are really high on Barnes, so unless its Rudy Gay, who they really covet I think they will keep him.

As for Beans and RJ, expiring contracts and picks would be enough to land either one. Problen is, we dont have them.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: nickagneta on January 28, 2013, 11:57:49 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.
How exactly can anyone be a fan of a guy that's played exactly 16 games in the last two seasons.

Or a guy that's played almost half of his team's games over the last FIVE seasons?

This is a ridiculous question. I'm a fan of well-cooked cheeseburgers that have a high enough fat content and are cooked slowly enough so that they remain tender without necessitating exposing yourself to food poisoning and questionable sanitation habits involved in a rare-medium burger. I'm a fan of watching the Naked Gun for the millionth time with good friends and better beer even though I know every single line by heart. You can be a fan of corny movies and burgers so bad for you they give you diabetes before dessert of you like having them in your life.

The question you should've asked is 'why would you believe in a guy like Bogut, or be satisfied if your team invested in him?'

And you know the answers to that. His injuries have been frequent, but mostly unrelated. His chronic ailment is bad luck.

His positives are intelligence, heart, and the track record to show he can be an elite rebounder, elite defender, elite passer (for the center position) and adaquate offense player in those rare instances when he's been healthy.

He's also a tough and determined leader. The kind of guy you want on your team.

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At the center position he's as close to Greg Oden as you get. Living a reputation based on something he did for a very short time years ago yet is more fragile than glass and has missed the majority of his team;s games over the last FIVE seasons.

No. He did it longer and better than Oden, and his injury history is very different in terms of causality.

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I don't care how young he is. He's a bad invest if you are giving up a top 5 player at his position in this league, regardless of age. Bogut is Greg Oden. He's Bill Walton for years after being hurt in Portland. He's Pervis Ellison. He's Danny Manning. He's a HUGELY bad investment.

You may be right in terms of results. He's a 'wait and see' player. Wait, and, we'll see. Either he'll shake his bad luck, or he won't. You obviously believe he won't. I think he could, and has a pretty justifiable upside if he does. If in 2 years he still can't get healthy, I'll owe you a beer.
Actually, and take this in the fun manner it is meant given our debates over Bogut in CB Draft threads, my question isn't ridiculous. Its not questioning whether  a person can be a fan of Bogut's considering his history, its questioning the sanity of the person being a fan of Bogut's considering his work over the past five year's.  ;)

All in all, I will buy you that beer if Bogut does ANYTHING near what he did in 2010 but I seriously doubt it. I don't get the "He's injuries are bad luck and not related" excuse. Its an excuse. Rondo played a playoff series on a separated elbow. He played a quarter on a torn ACL.

Bogut would never do that. I am convinced of that.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 11:58:43 PM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.

CB League isn't real life. I wouldn't invest in him.

Whoa whoa whoa. Three points:

1) If you recall, I did not invest in Bogut this past summer. I understand the downside.

2) and if it was real life, my boys are sitting atop the regular season standings right now.

3) seriously, how much would you have loved to have Chandler Parsons over S-Jax? It's that kind of insight that bears acknowledgment.

Haha I was talking about the year before when the Amare Bogut Injruy Sandwhch somehow duped people into thinking it was better then a big three of KG, Pierce, and Big Al.

Anyways I just figured out a deal that guarantees the Golden St. Warriors a title.  ;D

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=apty9yw
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Kane3387 on January 28, 2013, 11:59:53 PM
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As for Beans and RJ, expiring contracts and picks would be enough to land either one. Problen is, we dont have them.

We don't want them... We would be willing to take them for Pierce if Barnes was coming with.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 29, 2013, 12:12:31 AM
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Bogut would never do that. I am convinced of that.

I think his history proves you wrong here. He attempted to play through ridiculous pain this fall in the form of a stress fracture (I think that's what it was), and eventually had to sit.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: nickagneta on January 29, 2013, 12:20:34 AM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.

CB League isn't real life. I wouldn't invest in him.

Whoa whoa whoa. Three points:

1) If you recall, I did not invest in Bogut this past summer. I understand the downside.

2) and if it was real life, my boys are sitting atop the regular season standings right now.

3) seriously, how much would you have loved to have Chandler Parsons over S-Jax? It's that kind of insight that bears acknowledgment.

Haha I was talking about the year before when the Amare Bogut Injruy Sandwhch somehow duped people into thinking it was better then a big three of KG, Pierce, and Big Al.

Anyways I just figured out a deal that guarantees the Golden St. Warriors a title.  ;D

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=apty9yw
Yeah, well that same year, Amare/Bogut was somehow better than DPOY Tyson Chandler/Paul Milsap's career year/ LBJ's MVP and Finals MVP year.

Figure that one out.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 29, 2013, 12:29:04 AM
Huge Bogut fan. Heard the Warriors are too.

CB League isn't real life. I wouldn't invest in him.

Whoa whoa whoa. Three points:

1) If you recall, I did not invest in Bogut this past summer. I understand the downside.

2) and if it was real life, my boys are sitting atop the regular season standings right now.

3) seriously, how much would you have loved to have Chandler Parsons over S-Jax? It's that kind of insight that bears acknowledgment.

Haha I was talking about the year before when the Amare Bogut Injruy Sandwhch somehow duped people into thinking it was better then a big three of KG, Pierce, and Big Al.

Anyways I just figured out a deal that guarantees the Golden St. Warriors a title.  ;D

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=apty9yw
Yeah, well that same year, Amare/Bogut was somehow better than DPOY Tyson Chandler/Paul Milsap's career year/ LBJ's MVP and Finals MVP year.

Figure that one out.

Hindsight is 20/20. I admit freely now, with the benefit of hindsight, you had the better team.

But since we're talking about Bogut here and not my underappreciated mastery as a Celticsblog GM, let me take a shot at this.

1) Before Bogut suffered his hideous elbow injury, he was in fact the best defensive center in the NBA, or at least a peer of Howard.

2) Amare was coming off an absolute beast of a season as a center and offensive force until Melo got there and ruined everything

3) Kyle Lowry and James Harden 4 lyfe, y'all.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: KG Living Legend on January 29, 2013, 01:01:58 AM

  Honestly, the Warriors would be nasty by adding Pierce and Bass. That's nine really talented players, and a NBA champion to lead those kids.

 I would demand one first and Draymond Green, plus Barnes and fillers and you got a deal.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Galeto on January 29, 2013, 01:06:58 AM
I have a different gut feeling, that the Warriors aren't a championship contender despite their feel-good but no less legitimate status this season and because their best players are still young or very young, they shouldn't be trading youth for age right now.  They have the potential to develop a long window if Barnes develops and Boguts gets healthy.  It'd be foolish to get impatient.  I put the chances of the Warriors trading for Pierce as not even considering it and feeling excited about Barnes.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 29, 2013, 01:09:08 AM
This is the trade Id offer the Warriors if in fact we were actively entertaining trading Pierce, which Im not necessarily I favor of:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=byn5jc4

Celtics Trade: Pierce, Bass, Melo, 2013 first top 10 protected, top 5 protected 2014
Warriors Trade: Bogut, Jefferson, Barnes
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: Edgar on January 29, 2013, 01:11:41 AM
i really do think Pierce will NOT be traded
of course thats MY gut feeling.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: indeedproceed on January 29, 2013, 01:16:20 AM
i really do think Pierce will NOT be traded
of course thats MY gut feeling.

That's also my gut feeling. For Pierce to be traded, I think we'd need picks or prospects coming back.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: mgent on January 29, 2013, 02:25:34 AM
I am sure GS would love to get out from under the remaining contract that Biedrins has and would love to add a veteran presence like Pierce who has a championship pedigree, But to do so at the cost of losing Barnes and adding long term money like Bass', I think, is extremely unlikely.

BTW, could Biedrins, at this point, be considered the worst player in the NBA. Certainly his contract may have been, along with Eddie Curry's, one of the worst contracts in NBA history.
No.  Worst contract obviously, but not the worst player.  He's not even worse than Jason Collins has been this year (and I'm sure there's plenty of guys below him).  He's just one-dimensional.  Poor man's Reggie Evans.  Maybe slightly worse defensively, but makes more of his dunks.  Even in inconsistent minutes he's still getting 12 rebounds per 36.

You gotta have some perspective when talking about what Biedrin's potential was thought to be.  Dude had 12 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, and 58% FG% in 30 mpg.  At 22 years of age. 

Only 3 other guys have done that, Barkley, Shaq, and Wilt.

Shaq was the only one to do it that young.

If you add in his 1 steal per game, you can take Shaq off that list.

If you add in his 1.5 blocks per game, you can take Barkley off that list.

If you look at it on a per minute basis (which you should because those guys played 40), you can again eliminate Shaq, Barkley and all but 3 seasons Wilt ever had.  He was over 30 years old in each of them.

To pile on, he did ALL OF THAT the season before at age 21 too.  That year he played 3 less minutes (27) and averaged 1 less assist, but led the league with 62.6% FG%.  That season is statistically unmatched by any player other than the year Wilt tightened his FGA per game by 17!! and led Philly to the championship.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: jay on January 29, 2013, 09:49:21 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=amzn9pw

Trade them KG and PP for Harrison Barnes, their draft pick, and a bunch of filler (Landry, Biedrins, Rush, Jefferson)


Is getting one lottery pick in Harrison Barnes (plus tanking this year to get a 2nd lottery pick) worth trading both KG and PP?
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 29, 2013, 10:06:35 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=amzn9pw

Trade them KG and PP for Harrison Barnes, their draft pick, and a bunch of filler (Landry, Biedrins, Rush, Jefferson)


Is getting one lottery pick in Harrison Barnes (plus tanking this year to get a 2nd lottery pick) worth trading both KG and PP?

No.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: krook on January 29, 2013, 10:11:19 AM
i really love to see pierce as celtics next year,

kg and pierce are the reason we still on this even if its #8

we need veteran presence
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: sofutomygaha on January 29, 2013, 10:14:21 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=amzn9pw

Trade them KG and PP for Harrison Barnes, their draft pick, and a bunch of filler (Landry, Biedrins, Rush, Jefferson)


Is getting one lottery pick in Harrison Barnes (plus tanking this year to get a 2nd lottery pick) worth trading both KG and PP?

Jay, I think you're going too far. Realize how much filler that is... Biedrins and Jefferson are due ten million apiece for the next two years! You won't have a watchable basketball team until 2015.
Title: Re: Bogut Returns - Gut Feeling Pierce to Warriors
Post by: DavorCroatiaFan on January 29, 2013, 10:17:24 AM
How about:
Pierce and Bass to Warriors
Barnes, Jack, Landry and Jefferson to Celtics

Jarrett Jack is very good PG, Barnes has huge upside, Landry is upgrade over Bass, and Jefferson can backup Green

Jack/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Lee/Terry
Green/Barnes/Jefferson
Sullinger/Landry/Wilcox
Garnett/Wilcox/Melo/Collins