Author Topic: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.  (Read 4983 times)

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Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« on: August 15, 2008, 02:09:45 PM »

Offline crownsy

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http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_gets_a_ha.html

The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 02:24:47 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_gets_a_ha.html

The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

Eh, I'd be careful of sleeping on Joe on this one.  If there's one skill that he has above all others as a manager (and there are many who have wondered about some of his tactical in-game management), it's his ability to manage egos and personalities -- easily his biggest asset in the Yanks' late-90s run.

I can't speak for all of my blue-bleeding brethren, but I was thrilled to have Joe come aboard at the beginning of this season, and I began rooting for Manny in Dodger blue as a pipe dream when he first began to hit the market.  It's been a dream so far, and I'm happily willing to put up with all the MBM goofiness to have this guy in town...

-sw


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Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 02:29:05 PM »

Offline crownsy

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http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_gets_a_ha.html

The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

Eh, I'd be careful of sleeping on Joe on this one.  If there's one skill that he has above all others as a manager (and there are many who have wondered about some of his tactical in-game management), it's his ability to manage egos and personalities -- easily his biggest asset in the Yanks' late-90s run.

I can't speak for all of my blue-bleeding brethren, but I was thrilled to have Joe come aboard at the beginning of this season, and I began rooting for Manny in Dodger blue as a pipe dream when he first began to hit the market.  It's been a dream so far, and I'm happily willing to put up with all the MBM goofiness to have this guy in town...

-sw

until he quits on you that is. Listen, i love everythign the guy did for us, but it saddens me that he throws temper tantrums that affect his game. Wait till you give him his contract and you guys are 5 games out next year, he may decided just not to play anymore, as he did to us in 2006.

Rumors are that put a pretty big rift between him and ortiz.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 02:36:43 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

Eh, I'd be careful of sleeping on Joe on this one.  If there's one skill that he has above all others as a manager (and there are many who have wondered about some of his tactical in-game management), it's his ability to manage egos and personalities -- easily his biggest asset in the Yanks' late-90s run.

I can't speak for all of my blue-bleeding brethren, but I was thrilled to have Joe come aboard at the beginning of this season, and I began rooting for Manny in Dodger blue as a pipe dream when he first began to hit the market.  It's been a dream so far, and I'm happily willing to put up with all the MBM goofiness to have this guy in town...

-sw

until he quits on you that is. Listen, i love everythign the guy did for us, but it saddens me that he throws temper tantrums that affect his game. Wait till you give him his contract and you guys are 5 games out next year, he may decided just not to play anymore, as he did to us in 2006.

Rumors are that put a pretty big rift between him and ortiz.

I hear what you're saying, crownsy, and I understand the risks associated with having Manny in town.  Here's my question to you: Considering the whole of what transpired during his tenure, were the last seven and a half seasons worth the trouble as a Sawx fan?

-sw


Reggies Ghost: Where artistic genius happens.  Thank you, sir.

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 02:38:24 PM »

Offline crownsy

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http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_gets_a_ha.html

The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

Eh, I'd be careful of sleeping on Joe on this one.  If there's one skill that he has above all others as a manager (and there are many who have wondered about some of his tactical in-game management), it's his ability to manage egos and personalities -- easily his biggest asset in the Yanks' late-90s run.

I can't speak for all of my blue-bleeding brethren, but I was thrilled to have Joe come aboard at the beginning of this season, and I began rooting for Manny in Dodger blue as a pipe dream when he first began to hit the market.  It's been a dream so far, and I'm happily willing to put up with all the MBM goofiness to have this guy in town...

-sw

until he quits on you that is. Listen, i love everythign the guy did for us, but it saddens me that he throws temper tantrums that affect his game. Wait till you give him his contract and you guys are 5 games out next year, he may decided just not to play anymore, as he did to us in 2006.

Rumors are that put a pretty big rift between him and ortiz.

I hear what you're saying, crownsy, and I understand the risks associated with having Manny in town.  Here's my question to you: Considering the whole of what transpired during his tenure, were the last seven and a half seasons worth the trouble as a Sawx fan?

-sw

oh defintly, and i see where your coming from as well.

the real question is, at 37 as he will be next year, does his risk still outweigh his reward?

when he was 28-36, it certainly did. will it when hes 37, 38 and 39? we shall see.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2008, 02:51:46 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

Eh, I'd be careful of sleeping on Joe on this one.  If there's one skill that he has above all others as a manager (and there are many who have wondered about some of his tactical in-game management), it's his ability to manage egos and personalities -- easily his biggest asset in the Yanks' late-90s run.

I can't speak for all of my blue-bleeding brethren, but I was thrilled to have Joe come aboard at the beginning of this season, and I began rooting for Manny in Dodger blue as a pipe dream when he first began to hit the market.  It's been a dream so far, and I'm happily willing to put up with all the MBM goofiness to have this guy in town...

-sw

until he quits on you that is. Listen, i love everythign the guy did for us, but it saddens me that he throws temper tantrums that affect his game. Wait till you give him his contract and you guys are 5 games out next year, he may decided just not to play anymore, as he did to us in 2006.

Rumors are that put a pretty big rift between him and ortiz.

I hear what you're saying, crownsy, and I understand the risks associated with having Manny in town.  Here's my question to you: Considering the whole of what transpired during his tenure, were the last seven and a half seasons worth the trouble as a Sawx fan?

-sw

oh defintly, and i see where your coming from as well.

the real question is, at 37 as he will be next year, does his risk still outweigh his reward?

when he was 28-36, it certainly did. will it when hes 37, 38 and 39? we shall see.

The age is a fair point of yours, and I guess this is where my rational (or really, admitted irrationality) gets a bit sad:

As you may know, historically, the Dodgers' MO has been pitching and defense, and even in their best years, the hitting hasn't been the dominant force on the team.  Over the last few seasons, the hitting has ranged from terrible to mediocre, and the pitching has been a far cry from truly great Dodger pitching (think Sandy in the '60s and Orel in the '80s...not really what we've got with Messrs. Lowe, Penny and Kuroda...although I love Chad Billingsley, and Kershaw is growing on me).  Manny may easily be the best hitter the Dodgers have had during my lifetime, and just having him in the line-up makes this team so much more *watchable* and exciting, it's unbelievable to me. 

Further, as a New Yorker, the great likelihood is that I'll be going to a sum total of zero Dodger games at Chavez Ravine over the next couple of years (although I've gone a few times in the past and would likely try to get out if things get fun in late October).  So the money is Frank McCourt's rather than mine via rising ticket prices, and if he is willing to spend it, the actual number that goes to Manny isn't *all* that consequential to me (though it would be nice not to have mortgage the roster of the guy).  He's still better at 37 than anything else they have by a long shot, and it's a pleasure to get to watch him hit...so at least for now, I'm all for keeping him around and living with the goof.

-sw


Reggies Ghost: Where artistic genius happens.  Thank you, sir.

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2008, 02:58:19 PM »

Offline crownsy

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http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_gets_a_ha.html

The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

Eh, I'd be careful of sleeping on Joe on this one.  If there's one skill that he has above all others as a manager (and there are many who have wondered about some of his tactical in-game management), it's his ability to manage egos and personalities -- easily his biggest asset in the Yanks' late-90s run.

I can't speak for all of my blue-bleeding brethren, but I was thrilled to have Joe come aboard at the beginning of this season, and I began rooting for Manny in Dodger blue as a pipe dream when he first began to hit the market.  It's been a dream so far, and I'm happily willing to put up with all the MBM goofiness to have this guy in town...

-sw

until he quits on you that is. Listen, i love everythign the guy did for us, but it saddens me that he throws temper tantrums that affect his game. Wait till you give him his contract and you guys are 5 games out next year, he may decided just not to play anymore, as he did to us in 2006.

Rumors are that put a pretty big rift between him and ortiz.

I hear what you're saying, crownsy, and I understand the risks associated with having Manny in town.  Here's my question to you: Considering the whole of what transpired during his tenure, were the last seven and a half seasons worth the trouble as a Sawx fan?

-sw

oh defintly, and i see where your coming from as well.

the real question is, at 37 as he will be next year, does his risk still outweigh his reward?

when he was 28-36, it certainly did. will it when hes 37, 38 and 39? we shall see.

The age is a fair point of yours, and I guess this is where my rational (or really, admitted irrationality) gets a bit sad:

As you may know, historically, the Dodgers' MO has been pitching and defense, and even in their best years, the hitting hasn't been the dominant force on the team.  Over the last few seasons, the hitting has ranged from terrible to mediocre, and the pitching has been a far cry from truly great Dodger pitching (think Sandy in the '60s and Orel in the '80s...not really what we've got with Messrs. Lowe, Penny and Kuroda...although I love Chad Billingsley, and Kershaw is growing on me).  Manny may easily be the best hitter the Dodgers have had during my lifetime, and just having him in the line-up makes this team so much more *watchable* and exciting, it's unbelievable to me. 

Further, as a New Yorker, the great likelihood is that I'll be going to a sum total of zero Dodger games at Chavez Ravine over the next couple of years (although I've gone a few times in the past and would likely try to get out if things get fun in late October).  So the money is Frank McCourt's rather than mine via rising ticket prices, and if he is willing to spend it, the actual number that goes to Manny isn't *all* that consequential to me (though it would be nice not to have mortgage the roster of the guy).  He's still better at 37 than anything else they have by a long shot, and it's a pleasure to get to watch him hit...so at least for now, I'm all for keeping him around and living with the goof.

-sw

The goof's fun to watch, no question, and i enjoyed it immensly, as im sure you guys will out there. Even post-break up, i still lvoe the guy, dispite all his flaws, and wish him nothing but luck.

It just irks me when someone is as good as he is and acts like a beligernt child some times. but, on the other hand, i thorughly enjoy him when he's having fun at the game. it's really like having a kid around, love em when there cute, disaponited when they thorw the tantrum heh.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 04:34:07 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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It's a good thing old Joe Torre isn't a 65 year old travelling secretary, p---ing off a Manny Ramirez like that!

He deserves to get pushed, since certain players get to act like children.

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 05:43:48 PM »

Offline Bankshot

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One of the dumbest rules ever. And what effect does someone's hair have on wins and losses.  This is a baseball team... they play a game, this is not a military operation. ::)

I understand about following rules and all, but that rule is just plain dumb.
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Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2008, 12:33:58 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_gets_a_ha.html

The thing that strikes me here is that Torre is calling him into the office everyday to moniter the progress of a freakign hair cut, and manny kinda gave one of those "my manager's a moron, whatever" awnser's.

that, combined with torre snapping at a reporter like his joke about manny's hair was a huge deal leads me to belive torre is far too uptight to manage manny beyond this year.

also, way to say "if i come back" manny, wern't you in love with this place 5 days ago to the extent that you pretty much said your returning?

manny being manny, soon you'll learn what the darker side of that is LA.  :D

I'm guessing that Torre wants to see what he's dealing with during the free rental period to see how much Manny's act affects the rest of the team and how much Manny is willing to do to adhere to basic rules.  As we found out, Manny can be as productive as ever and still undermine his team. 

Torre is managing the team.  I have no problem with Torre worrying about a "freaking haircut".  He's probably worried about job security, too.   

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2008, 01:01:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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One of the dumbest rules ever. And what effect does someone's hair have on wins and losses.  This is a baseball team... they play a game, this is not a military operation. ::)

I understand about following rules and all, but that rule is just plain dumb.
I kind of like the grooming rule. It shows that a player is willing to sacrifice a little something to be a part of the team. I mean, let's face it, these guys sacrifice very little to be a part of a well paying environment like professional baseball. What's so bad about making sure you adhere to personal grooming standards like hair length and/or facial hair and/or shaving?

There are tons of working environments that have personal grooming standards that must be maintained in order to work within them. Why should a locker room be any different if the appearance that management wants its players to project is that of a well groomed professional? For the money these guys are making, is that realy asking too much of them?

Besides, for those that are going to have a problem with it, you know those are the guys that will eventually be a problem internally for the team. That's why it doesn't surprise anyone that Manny has an issue with it. Something so simple to do to be a part of the whole and Manny won't do it. There's a huge surprise, huh?

Re: Little advice Joe, pick your battles.
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2008, 02:11:44 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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One of the dumbest rules ever. And what effect does someone's hair have on wins and losses.  This is a baseball team... they play a game, this is not a military operation. ::)
I understand about following rules and all, but that rule is just plain dumb.

It goes to the NBA dresscode rule, Bankshot.  Not all of these players are set for life like Manny is.  Torre, like Stern, is doing these guys a major service by expecting them to act and look like real adults and not like rastafreaks and gangbangers.  It simply doesn't work wonders in real life.   There are a few exceptions (Rodman) who can conduct themselves like abject fools away from the game and consistently play like a champion on it and still be a good teammate.  Manny obviously isn't one of those people.

How much does it hame to do with wins and losses?  I think Francona and Epstein can tell you that when one player is undermining the team by playing by his own rules.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 02:20:42 PM by Finkelskyhook »