Author Topic: Trade idea for T-Wolves  (Read 8968 times)

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Trade idea for T-Wolves
« on: May 21, 2008, 09:55:11 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Timberwolves trade:
Antoine Walker
#3 pick
Kirk Snyder
Wayne Simien

Bulls trade:
Kirk Hinrich
Joakim Noah

Why I'd make this trade for the T=wolves:

You know what you're going to get in Kirk Hinrich and Joakim Noah. In Hinrich you're going to get a hard nosed point guard that can play some defense and as little ago as last season was considered a premier point in this league. He's coming off of a bad year but you don't lose your shot and defensive tenacity at age 26, and the Wolves are in desparate need of some backbone and vet presence right now.

Joakim Noah is a little more of an unknown. He's a bit hard to project as a player but this much is known about the kid: He hates to lose, he's got an unflappable motor and he's got big game experience. He's not going to tolerate losing by this fledgling team and that alone would justify his value in this trade. He's also a got the length and desire on defense to play a role much like Marcus Camby's in Denver as a rebounder and help side defender. Also his size will allow Al Jefferson to move over to his natural power forward spot without seeing a huge gaping hole at the 5, which was the case this past season.

Doing this trade for the T-Wolves relies on two things: #1, you don't believe that Randy Foye or Sebastian Telfair can man the point for a competitive NBA team, and you don't believe in or want to take a chance on Brook Lopez, a huge reach at number 3 in my opinion.

Why I make this trade if Im the Bulls:

This trade is not about the players you're getting back, unless you count Wayne Simien as a guy you think can be good (some do, I don't). This trade is about what it enables you to do if you're the Bulls. It allows you to take the kid with the least risk and biggest upside in Derrick Rose. Micheal Beasley is a fantastic player but Rose is just the better prospect. There is not another player like him in the East and between him Deng and Thomas this could be the best transition team since the 2006 Suns. This trade wipes off Hinrich's 5 year contract within 2 years, and creates the spot on the team for Rose.

This trade also brings in the number 3 pick, and with Rose already locked up it allows the team to be a little more creative with this pick. The needs as far as I can see on the Bulls are the 2, 4, and 5. Its funny though because besides the 5 the Bulls have capable starters at the 2 and 4 in Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes, as well as Tyrus Thomas.

The point is after the Rose pick, the Bulls can have whoever they think will be the best player that fits the role they want a 2 4 or 5 to play on their team, it allows them to take a chance which is something Paxson excels at as a GM, and there shouldn't be too much pressure after the first two picks so it allows them to go out and get their guy.

Summary:
If you don't buy that Derrick Rose is a no brainer at #1 then this trade is pointless. But if you do believe that Rose is the guy then its clear that Hinrich has to go. The Bulls have to include Noah too because 11+ million in expiring contracts and the number 3 pick is too much value for Hinrich. The Wolves can address 2 sore needs with 2 low risk players while the Bulls clear a path for their own progress into the future.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 10:22:42 AM by IndeedProceed »

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Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2008, 10:00:24 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I don't think you can get both Hinrich and Noah for the third pick this year. 


Plus, leaves the Bulls without a C. 

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2008, 10:04:09 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't think you can get both Hinrich and Noah for the third pick this year. 


Plus, leaves the Bulls without a C. 

Aaron Gray? Personally I think they'll pick Brook Lopez if this trade went down. Really the point is that the trade allow the T-Wolves to address their pg need and don't need to shoulder the risk on Lopez.

Walker's 8 million exp contract has value too, same with Kirk Snyder's exp money. Puts the Bulls in a good spot to look at guys like Elton Brand this summer.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 10:16:47 AM »

Offline im right

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they can get more than that for the number 3 pick. #3, Brewer, and Toine for Melo. Hinrich value is nothing right now and Noah isnt worth #3.
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Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2008, 10:30:43 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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they can get more than that for the number 3 pick. #3, Brewer, and Toine for Melo. Hinrich value is nothing right now and Noah isnt worth #3.

If anything I think Im assigning too much value to the number 3 pick. Beyond the dynamic Duo of Rose/Beasley there are like 7-10 players that all do one thing pretty well with either glaring flaws otherwise or unknown potential. There isn't even a clear 3-6 let alone a clear #3. There are also clear reaches in this round that could be some of the best players in basketball, but they have knocks on them that are too hard to ignore. OJ Mayo, DeAndre Jordan, Kevin Love, Hasheem Thabeet, heck Donte Greene even. The point is that whether you're picking 3rd or 9th the value of the picks is not that distant, as opposed to last season when even after Oden there was Al Horford and Mike Conely, also supposed "can't miss" picks.

Thats why this deal can be seen as a reach for the Bulls, not the T-Wolves. The T-wolves get 2 known commodities at huge holes, while the Bulls get a known commodity in the expiring contract but then a huge unknown in the 3rd pick. For a really good drafting GM, thats a great position to be in, but if you don't trust your GM's drafting abilities, its a huge leap of faith to think you'll get value at the 3.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2008, 10:57:54 AM »

Offline Redz

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Make it a 3-way with Twoine headed to Boston and you've got a deal!   ;)

I can see Paxson being tempted to continue dismantling his team by replacing Hinrich with Rose, but I don't know that I'd trade the bird in the hand.  Hinrich had an awful season, but that whole team was a mess and Hinrich had been solid his whole career prior to that.
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Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 11:03:29 AM »

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It would be a very bad move for Minnesota. Nobody should want any piece of Kirk Hinrich. He just isn't worth the money.

Sign Chris Duhon in free agency. He's roughly equal to Kirk.

Anyway Minnesota's brass is still convinced Foye can be a point guard. I don't see them changing up unless they got a shot at Rose or a point of his caliber. Not Kirk Hinrich, Foye can do a lot of what Kirk does already and they don't have to pay him $8-10mil to do it.

Minnesota should hold onto Antoine, that's a great chip. I doubt they ever get to use it though because they won't have the foundation of a contender in place .... without that it'll be hard to take back a talented veteran. They'll likely just get stuck in that 50 win range again.

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 11:11:21 AM »

Offline RebusRankin

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The Wolves should take Mayo to go along with Al and Brewer.

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 11:19:11 AM »

Offline im right

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This probably isnt even a possability but I think if you have a chance to cash in Toine for Carmelo, you have to do it. Denver was talking to NJ about trading Anthony and Camby for some defense, a young unproven pg, and a worse pick. I think the wolves could trump their offer with the #3 being the centerpiece. GMs on bad teams always think they can get the next big thing. Look at the Bucks, they have a twenty five point scorer who can get you 5 and 5, creat his own shot, and break down defenses but you hear they want to unload Redd for picks. I am sure if they could trade him staright up for Mayo, they would. So the pick is pretty important. Plus I wouldnt want Noah as my starting center in the West where Oden, Bynum, Amare, and Ming will be around for a while.
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Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 11:22:01 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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This probably isnt even a possability but I think if you have a chance to cash in Toine for Carmelo, you have to do it. Denver was talking to NJ about trading Anthony and Camby for some defense, a young unproven pg, and a worse pick. I think the wolves could trump their offer with the #3 being the centerpiece. GMs on bad teams always think they can get the next big thing. Look at the Bucks, they have a twenty five point scorer who can get you 5 and 5, creat his own shot, and break down defenses but you hear they want to unload Redd for picks. I am sure if they could trade him staright up for Mayo, they would. So the pick is pretty important. Plus I wouldnt want Noah as my starting center in the West where Oden, Bynum, Amare, and Ming will be around for a while.


Richard Jefferson averaged 22.6 points a game.  Plays defense. 

So, that is more then the T-Wolves could offer (unless they offer Al)

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 11:40:17 AM »

Offline im right

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This probably isnt even a possability but I think if you have a chance to cash in Toine for Carmelo, you have to do it. Denver was talking to NJ about trading Anthony and Camby for some defense, a young unproven pg, and a worse pick. I think the wolves could trump their offer with the #3 being the centerpiece. GMs on bad teams always think they can get the next big thing. Look at the Bucks, they have a twenty five point scorer who can get you 5 and 5, creat his own shot, and break down defenses but you hear they want to unload Redd for picks. I am sure if they could trade him staright up for Mayo, they would. So the pick is pretty important. Plus I wouldnt want Noah as my starting center in the West where Oden, Bynum, Amare, and Ming will be around for a while.


Richard Jefferson averaged 22.6 points a game.  Plays defense. 

So, that is more then the T-Wolves could offer (unless they offer Al)

They would gain perimater defense but loose interior as they want to include Camby, and Nene and Martin wont replace what he brings. But I agree that the Nets have a fair offer; Jefferson is more suited to play on that team bringing defense and giving AI total alfa status, cap space, young pg with potentail and a decent pick. The point I am making is when GMs seem those high, top five picks they get nutty.
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Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2008, 11:43:54 AM »

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The Wolves need perimter scoring, a playmaker, shooting. Everything else is secondary.

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2008, 11:46:27 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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The Wolves need perimter scoring, a playmaker, shooting. Everything else is secondary.


A big C would also be high on the list.  (I think they should go after Diop in FA.  He's big.  He defends.  He rebounds.  He is still young.)

Re: Trade idea for T-Wolves
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2008, 12:07:39 PM »

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The Wolves need perimter scoring, a playmaker, shooting. Everything else is secondary.


A big C would also be high on the list.  (I think they should go after Diop in FA.  He's big.  He defends.  He rebounds.  He is still young.)

It's secondary on my list. They can do without that for awhile.

  • Only 5 teams had second scorers of under 15ppg. The Wolves were one of them. Their second scorer was Rashad McCants who's their 6th man and likely isn't even in their long term plans. I want to see Al get some scoring help.
  • I'd also like to see someone who can create plays for his teammates like a Tracy McGrady/a Joe Johnson/or a Brandon Roy type, someone who's a great passer, a playmaker, a penetrator. The Wolves have no player who can link together the offense, get all their teammates involved by getting them some easy shots.
  • The Wolves also have nobody to go to late in the shot clock to get a decent shot off.
  • The Wolves got killed last season, especially Al, by their lack of perimeter shooting. Opposing teams would just double Al, force him to give up the ball and Minnesota would shoot 6-20 on perimeter jump shots. Suddenly an even game turns into a huge loss. They were also killed on zone defenses.
  • Some perimeter defense would be nice also. A big reason why they got beaten up in the paint so much was the opposing guards had an easy time beating their man off the dribble or off the ball into the paint. It's hard to win that battle when you're regularly out-manned down there.

A centre would be nice for Al down in the paint but until the above is answered it's going to do nothing for the team's record. They'll still be too easy to stifle and beat. Al needs a true two-man game to develop with a quality perimeter player.

Oh I like Diop, good idea. He'd shore up that interior for cheap money. I hope lots of teams are thinking on him because he'd be a great fit in a lot of places. It'd be brilliant for Al to get that help.