CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Green-18 on October 20, 2017, 09:28:55 PM
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Curious to hear everyone's thoughts about Kyrie's performance tonight. Overall I am encouraged by the fact that he kept his head in the game and played within the system. We might not see a more ugly 3 quarters of basketball than we saw tonight. Solid team win.
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He played well enough. He tried to motivate the troops, especially after a few free throws early in the 4th.
I think Kyrie and Baynes (and Morris whenever he joins them) will be a decent pick-and-roll combo. If only the Baynes could stay on the floor.
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He have a quiet game until the 4th even with his 21 pts. But i'll take it. Hopefully, he'll learn to run pick and rolls like Larkin more effectively.
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His first possession when he got subbed back in the 4th he took a contested 3 that missed. I believe after that he learned his lesson and stopped forcing the issue. He took open comfortable mid range shots after that.
When he looks to score, he over dribbles, the offense stagnates, the defense focuses and he either puts up a wild shot, or starts scrambling. I think he looks to be a play maker, he'll find easier opportunities to score.
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Larkin, Bird Rozier, Horford...rotation really lit the fire. Then Irving came in and didn't miss a step. A point also is Philly just choked when Irving started to take over the game in the last 4:09.
First three quarters were unwatchable. Rozier, all in all has played better than any of his team mates in the first three games.
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Kyrie should have had more assists, if guys hit shots. The game was sloppy at times but overall I was happy with him. He did really well basically sealing it for them and that's really why you have him.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
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He’s pretty good. I do not enjoy watching him play, though.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
That's a bit harsh after three games on a team this young without Gordon Hayward. A good chunk of our offensive sets got disrupted when Gordon went down.
If Kyrie wanted to go out and score a lot more he could definitely do it. He is trying extremely hard to execute a difficult offense with a bunch of inexperienced players around him. I have no doubts that his game is going to reach another level as he becomes more experienced with CBS's system.
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He is a slow decision maker and he does not move without the ball. Harden is a ponderous player too, but he has the vision to warrant all his prodding. Irving needs to either shoot, drive, or keep the ball moving. Also, his defense is bad - as expected.
Obviously he's a ridiculously talented shot maker, but the Celtics are going to need more than that.
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Thoughts? Kind of meh to be honest. 21 & 4 is nothing close to the "superstar" and "potential MVP candidate" people were attempting to make him into before the season.
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He doesn't seem to mind playing off the ball at all.
One play in the 4th, he had the ball in the backcourt, Larkin started walking up next to him, Kyrie threw the ball to Larkin to bring it up, and Larkin was not at all expecting it.
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He's learning how to adapt an offense that is new to him that was supposed to work with Hayward. The rest of the team is heavily involved with him as PG and he's scoring 20 ppg - plus he has tons of room to improve. I'm confident he'll be in full swing by the All-Star break.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
That's a bit harsh after three games on a team this young without Gordon Hayward. A good chunk of our offensive sets got disrupted when Gordon went down.
If Kyrie wanted to go out and score a lot more he could definitely do it. He is trying extremely hard to execute a difficult offense with a bunch of inexperienced players around him. I have no doubts that his game is going to reach another level as he becomes more experienced with CBS's system.
Well said. Kyrie played within himself and didn't force anything in the 3rd quarter even when we were struggling. There were a few stagnant 4th quarter possessions but eh it happens.
You can tell he's still trying to find his groove with his new team. I thought he played well overall. He made some really good passes (the bullet pass to Bird which led to a shooting foul comes to mind, that and the extra pass to Larkin for the open 3).
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
That's a bit harsh after three games on a team this young without Gordon Hayward. A good chunk of our offensive sets got disrupted when Gordon went down.
If Kyrie wanted to go out and score a lot more he could definitely do it. He is trying extremely hard to execute a difficult offense with a bunch of inexperienced players around him. I have no doubts that his game is going to reach another level as he becomes more experienced with CBS's system.
Well said. Kyrie played within himself and didn't force anything in the 3rd quarter even when we were struggling. There were a few stagnant 4th quarter possessions but eh it happens.
You can tell he's still trying to find his groove with his new team. I thought he played well overall. He made some really good passes (the bullet pass to Bird which led to a shooting foul comes to mind, that and the extra pass to Larkin for the open 3).
Very well said, guys. So he is a superstar?
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He played well, but not like really well. The box score says he scored 21, but he hardly seems like a leader on the floor. I honestly forget he is out there sometimes; that would never have been said about a healthy IT. Just different styles, I guess.
I think we need to give him a couple months to settle into Stevens' system. It is also probably a total gut punch to him losing Hayward, but I am still expecting/hoping for quite a bit more.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
That's a bit harsh after three games on a team this young without Gordon Hayward. A good chunk of our offensive sets got disrupted when Gordon went down.
If Kyrie wanted to go out and score a lot more he could definitely do it. He is trying extremely hard to execute a difficult offense with a bunch of inexperienced players around him. I have no doubts that his game is going to reach another level as he becomes more experienced with CBS's system.
Well said. Kyrie played within himself and didn't force anything in the 3rd quarter even when we were struggling. There were a few stagnant 4th quarter possessions but eh it happens.
You can tell he's still trying to find his groove with his new team. I thought he played well overall. He made some really good passes (the bullet pass to Bird which led to a shooting foul comes to mind, that and the extra pass to Larkin for the open 3).
Very well said, guys. So he is a superstar?
For CelticsBlog, it depends on the day you're asking this question.
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Played well when we needed him.
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Huge disappointment considering we gave up the face of the frnachise, a valuable future asset, a big part of our heart and soul and a big man prospect for a guy that got outplayed by Terry Rozier.
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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.
I still hate the trade, haha.
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Huge disappointment considering we gave up the face of the frnachise, a valuable future asset, a big part of our heart and soul and a big man prospect for a guy that got outplayed by Terry Rozier.
We clearly overpaid.
It's not just Isaiah-for-Kyrie like people here make it out to be.
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He was fine. Danny didn't get him for what he is right now - it's what he's hopefully going to turn into playing in this system.
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
I think what you're seeing is a response to all of the "Kyrie is already better than IT" posts. But I agree, three games isn't enough time.
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He played well, but not like really well. The box score says he scored 21, but he hardly seems like a leader on the floor. I honestly forget he is out there sometimes; that would never have been said about a healthy IT. Just different styles, I guess.
You had your eyes closed down the stretch in the game? If you cared about winning the game, I noticed him making most all of the plays to win it at the end.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
lol
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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.
I still hate the trade, haha.
Same man.
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.
Im going to tell you this. Kyrie has outplayed IT+Crowder this season.
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.
Im going to tell you this. Kyrie has outplayed IT+Crowder this season.
The first who is injured (so no data) and the second one who's doing what he's expected to do. You also haven't factored in the potential of the Nets pick and Zizic, which can be valuable assets.
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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.
I still hate the trade, haha.
TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.
I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.
Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
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He was better than in the first two games, more in the flow of the offense, looking to pass and to score with more balance. And he was clutch so it was great to see him get more comfortable although it's obviously still a learning process.
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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.
I still hate the trade, haha.
TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.
I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.
Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
Yeah but with the value we gave up it should be reasonable to expect great production off the bat. I hope he becomes great but rn he's not even at the level he was in Cleveland last year production wise.
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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.
I still hate the trade, haha.
TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.
I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.
Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
Yeah but with the value we gave up it should be reasonable to expect great production off the bat. I hope he becomes great but rn he's not even at the level he was in Cleveland last year production wise.
Eh, maybe. I thought there was consensus that there would be growing pains with such high turnover. The Celtics are trying to implement a game plan to win current and future games. I'm not expecting that plan to be complete before the season started. I actually think the Celtics could have a tough time over the next year and a half (even if they had a healthy Gordon Hayward). Kyrie plays for the Celtics, and while he is known for his ISO skills, he is still working with teammates.
In the NBA, 3 quarters, two dimes, and a nickle do not equal a dollar. Usually it takes an overpay to get the best player in the trade. In a vacuum (ignoring context), I understand that people think that IT is as good or better than Kyrie. Once context is added, I don't understand how people think that an injured IT going into FA is a better asset than Kyrie. That argument doesn't make sense, at least to me.
Danny had been waiting years to cash in with his bundle of assets. Once Irving became available, he did what he had to do to acquire the best player. He had passed multiple times previously on acquiring top talent, and this was his time to do so. Also, he still has Brown, Tatum, and the LAL/SAC pick (and maybe the MEM pick) that could be traded for another NBA star.
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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.
I still hate the trade, haha.
TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.
I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.
Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
Yeah but with the value we gave up it should be reasonable to expect great production off the bat. I hope he becomes great but rn he's not even at the level he was in Cleveland last year production wise.
Only if you ignore all context
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We are averaging 15 TO's per game. It was pretty clear watching that we are not fully ready with the ball movement and screens. I saw a handoff that was particularly awkward at one point. I think this will improve within the first twenty games.
I think he was decent in the fourth. That one shot on the left side clutched the game for us. I think he has been trying on D. We will grow as a team and he will improve. Big difference switching from me ball to team ball. He will get it. CBS will make adjustments as he has never had a player of his ilk talent wise and yes, that includes IT.
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Before the season started I was wondering about Kyrie fitting into the CBS system. After three games I am considering more, how does CBS get the team to fit to Kyrie? I am seeing KI getting some great passes away and a court vision that goes beyond the textbook or coaching manual.
Because Kyrie's powers don't include the size or physical presence of a LBJ, he makes up for it with the speed that he sees the open man and so many other things he does more efficiently than other players or they can't do.
Kyrie is only an upgrade over IT if the team is getting the most out of all his other skills, as point scorers Kyrie will struggle to achieve what IT did as a Celtic. That is in terms of PPG. Kyrie can achieve Rondo like assists if the team can keep up. He can also score more points per game than he has so far if other players are more responsive to his leads.
I know we are talking Kyrie tonight but in all three games I have seen situations where KI gets the ball and isn't able to do what his instinct sees as others don't make the right move. We can't give everybody KI like view of the court but getting the most out of KI means coaching others in the best ways to react to Kyrie.
I shudder to think how good a lineup of KI, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford will be in a year or two. These are all guys with great BB IQ and, Horford apart, have time on their sides.
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Before the season started I was wondering about Kyrie fitting into the CBS system. After three games I am considering more, how does CBS get the team to fit to Kyrie? I am seeing KI getting some great passes away and a court vision that goes beyond the textbook or coaching manual.
Because Kyrie's powers don't include the size or physical presence of a LBJ, he makes up for it with the speed that he sees the open man and so many other things he does more efficiently than other players or they can't do.
Kyrie is only an upgrade over IT if the team is getting the most out of all his other skills, as point scorers Kyrie will struggle to achieve what IT did as a Celtic. That is in terms of PPG. Kyrie can achieve Rondo like assists if the team can keep up. He can also score more points per game than he has so far if other players are more responsive to his leads.
I know we are talking Kyrie tonight but in all three games I have seen situations where KI gets the ball and isn't able to do what his instinct sees as others don't make the right move. We can't give everybody KI like view of the court but getting the most out of KI means coaching others in the best ways to react to Kyrie.
I shudder to think how good a lineup of KI, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford will be in a year or two. These are all guys with great BB IQ and, Horford apart, have time on their sides.
Some great points throughout, especially the idea of getting the team to fit Kyrie's style of play. That comment reminds me of Brad's approach to IT and it really drives home the fact that every player/situation is different. Brad told IT to attack relentlessly and that it was up to the team to adjust. It's clear that his goal was to establish IT's confidence first and then integrate him into the system.
The conditions are completely different this time around and we aren't simply fighting to make the playoffs anymore. Kyrie will need adjust a lot more than IT. I have mentioned in other threads that a Golden State or San Antonio Spurs style offense is the barometer. None of this will happen overnight but it will pay off in the long run once everyone has fully developed.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
This going to be the recurring theme for you all season. We get it you're not part of the Kyrie fan club. We won by 10 with a team full guys who were still breast feeding a few years ago.
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.
Im going to tell you this. Kyrie has outplayed IT+Crowder this season.
The first who is injured (so no data) and the second one who's doing what he's expected to do. You also haven't factored in the potential of the Nets pick and Zizic, which can be valuable assets.
So? That is exactly my point. If we didn't do the trade, we'd be 0-3 right now looking at Jae Crowder as our go to guy.
This season Kyrie only has to outperform Crowder+IT, and given that IT is going to miss some time, it looks like he will. Moving forward who knows if Danny wouldve resigned Thomas to even warrant the discussion. So Kyrie would just have to outperform whoever the Cavs select with that pick+Crowder.
Contrary to your belief, I already factored in those things.
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Same Kyrie he has always been. If he doesn't improve...
Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest? No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.
If Kyrie wanted to go out and score a lot more he could definitely do it. He is trying extremely hard to execute a difficult offense with a bunch of inexperienced players around him. I have no doubts that his game is going to reach another level as he becomes more experienced with CBS's system.
Exactly! He's trying to fit in Brad's system and in some moments it's more than obvious he's trying to change his game and to adapt to his new role which will definitively take him to the higher level. In Brad we trust!
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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??
When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".
After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"
:P
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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??
When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".
After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"
:P
I was thinking the same. It's senseless.
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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system? That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there?
Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team. Think about it. 2 starters are under the age of 20. A second yr player and a rookie!! Let that sink in. With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc. These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet.
For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.
Im going to tell you this. Kyrie has outplayed IT+Crowder this season.
The first who is injured (so no data) and the second one who's doing what he's expected to do. You also haven't factored in the potential of the Nets pick and Zizic, which can be valuable assets.
So? That is exactly my point. If we didn't do the trade, we'd be 0-3 right now looking at Jae Crowder as our go to guy.
This season Kyrie only has to outperform Crowder+IT, and given that IT is going to miss some time, it looks like he will. Moving forward who knows if Danny wouldve resigned Thomas to even warrant the discussion. So Kyrie would just have to outperform whoever the Cavs select with that pick+Crowder.
Contrary to your belief, I already factored in those things.
I guess we disagree on the value of the Nets pick then. I hope Kyrie picks it up, it's frustrating because I see flashes but I just can't see Kyrie go off consistently.
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He's dealing with a new system, new team, a devastating injury to a major player, many rookies that are pushed into important roles, and some short-sighted bloggers.
He'll get better...and yes, I do miss the security of the Nets pick too.
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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??
When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".
After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"
:P
I was thinking the same. It's senseless.
I rarely make threads but this is such a polarizing topic on the forum because of how much we all loved IT. I don't disagree with you guys. Maybe I should have renamed the thread "Kyrie playing within the system" or something like that. I felt like posting the thread because I was interested in people's reactions after an ugly win. If Kyrie had played a great game then there wouldn't have been anything from me.
I see value in all of the little things that build team chemistry. As I mentioned before, Kyrie is making a concerted effort at adapting his game to Brad's system. I was interested to hear the sentiment from the rest of the board. Judging from the responses there is a group of people that want Superstar Kyrie every night and wont have the patience to let this play out.
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I have been underwhelmed with Kyrie up to this point but also would note that teams are doubling and triple teaming him, which is why it really sucks that Hayward is lost for the year.
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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??
When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".
After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"
:P
I was thinking the same. It's senseless.
I rarely make threads but this is such a polarizing topic on the forum because of how much we all loved IT. I don't disagree with you guys. Maybe I should have renamed the thread "Kyrie playing within the system" or something like that. I felt like posting the thread because I was interested in people's reactions after an ugly win. If Kyrie had played a great game then there wouldn't have been anything from me.
I see value in all of the little things that build team chemistry. As I mentioned before, Kyrie is making a concerted effort at adapting his game to Brad's system. I was interested to hear the sentiment from the rest of the board. Judging from the responses there is a group of people that want Superstar Kyrie every night and wont have the patience to let this play out.
Oh when I said that, I didn't mean it as a personal attack against you for creating the thread or anything. Apologies if it sounded that way.
It's just, as you say, it's such a polarizing concept to talk about (the trade itself, the characters of Isaiah and Kyrie, etc. etc.), and it does get kind of annoying when you hear many posters on here change their tune after each game. ("He's a superstar!", then after a bad game, "who is this guy..." lol)
It was an ugly win, and Kyrie wasn't fantastic but he did solid, and did play a part in that 4th quarter which helped to win the game. Good steps and hopefully a start for Kyrie in this system. It will take time for him to adjust, that is true.
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I have been underwhelmed with Kyrie up to this point but also would note that teams are doubling and triple teaming him, which is why it really sucks that Hayward is lost for the year.
Teams have been focusing on him a ton.
He sees multiple defenders every time down the floor. You saw in this game we had to run him off multiple handoffs and picks to get him a little bit of space.
Thats the big thing you lose with Hayward being out, but I think Brad and Kyrie will adjust.
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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??
When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".
After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"
:P
I was thinking the same. It's senseless.
I rarely make threads but this is such a polarizing topic on the forum because of how much we all loved IT. I don't disagree with you guys. Maybe I should have renamed the thread "Kyrie playing within the system" or something like that. I felt like posting the thread because I was interested in people's reactions after an ugly win. If Kyrie had played a great game then there wouldn't have been anything from me.
I see value in all of the little things that build team chemistry. As I mentioned before, Kyrie is making a concerted effort at adapting his game to Brad's system. I was interested to hear the sentiment from the rest of the board. Judging from the responses there is a group of people that want Superstar Kyrie every night and wont have the patience to let this play out.
Oh when I said that, I didn't mean it as a personal attack against you for creating the thread or anything. Apologies if it sounded that way.
It's just, as you say, it's such a polarizing concept to talk about (the trade itself, the characters of Isaiah and Kyrie, etc. etc.), and it does get kind of annoying when you hear many posters on here change their tune after each game. ("He's a superstar!", then after a bad game, "who is this guy..." lol)
It was an ugly win, and Kyrie wasn't fantastic but he did solid, and did play a part in that 4th quarter which helped to win the game. Good steps and hopefully a start for Kyrie in this system. It will take time for him to adjust, that is true.
lol No worries! i=It was a fair point to raise. If we did this after every game it would start to get annoying.
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I was really impressed with the chemistry Irving and Hayward seemed to have developed in preseason games. Irving isn't just learning a new system, he spent over a month learning a new system that featured Gordon Hayward heavily. Removing Hayward, he's basically learning another new system from the start.
He still looks like he's feeling his way around, to me. He's fighting some of those old "attack all the time" instincts and he looks out of sorts. Either he'll figure it out or he won't (I remain optimistic) but I'm not worried about him after 3 games, given the situation.
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I have been underwhelmed with Kyrie up to this point but also would note that teams are doubling and triple teaming him, which is why it really sucks that Hayward is lost for the year.
And until or unless some other guys can step up - on a consistent basis - and make people pay for double teaming him, this will continue.