Four years later, Tony Allen still hasn't developed

[dark_lord]

Personally speaking,i never expected TA to replace Posey.
I did expect Danny and owners to do what he promised,"replace Posey by committee"...still waiting on the committee Danny.

  Seriously, folks.  I must be missing the part where we were undefeated with James Posey on our roster.

We're 27-4, for God's sakes.

with myself, as i stated a few times in this thread, it has nothing to do with the regular season, and everything to do with the post season.  tony is inconsistent, makes poor decisions, and quite frankly i dont trust him when it matters most (the post season).

[Roy Hobbs]

Statistical proof that Tony Allen hasn't developed much over the past five years:

Stats per 36 minutes

04-05: 14.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.8 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.7 bpg, 47.5 fg%, 38.7 3pt%, 2.2 tpg, 4.5 pf
05-06: 13.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.7 bpg, 47.1 fg%, 32.4 3pt%, 2.5 tpg, 4.6 pf
06-07: 16.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.5 apg, 2.2 spg,  0.5 bpg,51.4 fg%, 24.2 3pt%, 3.4 tpg, 3.9 pf
07-08: 13.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.6 bpg, 43.6 fg%, 31.6 3pt%, 2.9 tpg, 4.4 pf
08-09: 14.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.2 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.7 bpg, 47.6 fg%, 16.7 3pt%, 3.1 tpg, 4.0 pf

I don't see how anybody looks at that progression and sees any development.  Tony Allen is essentially the exact same player now as he has been the past four seasons.

[Andy Jick]

Statistical proof that Tony Allen hasn't developed much over the past five years:

Stats per 36 minutes

04-05: 14.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.8 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.7 bpg, 47.5 fg%, 38.7 3pt%, 2.2 tpg, 4.5 pf
05-06: 13.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.7 bpg, 47.1 fg%, 32.4 3pt%, 2.5 tpg, 4.6 pf
06-07: 16.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.5 apg, 2.2 spg,  0.5 bpg,51.4 fg%, 24.2 3pt%, 3.4 tpg, 3.9 pf
07-08: 13.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.6 bpg, 43.6 fg%, 31.6 3pt%, 2.9 tpg, 4.4 pf
08-09: 14.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.2 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.7 bpg, 47.6 fg%, 16.7 3pt%, 3.1 tpg, 4.0 pf

I don't see how anybody looks at that progression and sees any development.  Tony Allen is essentially the exact same player now as he has been the past four seasons.

i was very surprised to see his steal numbers where they were...his wing-denial defense is really about all he brings to the table.  everything tony does appears to be "forced" as it never looks as if it's a part of the natural flow of the offense.  if danny can use him as trade bait, i'd do it as i believe bill walker is better fit for tony's role.

[nickagneta]

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then? I really would rather have had a bunch of other players that were still available at the time Tony was signed than Tony. I think James Posey came to terms with the Hornets on the 16th of July and at that time these players still hadn't signed: Matt Barnes, Ricky Davis, Kurt Thomas, Chris Andersen, Tyrone Lue, Flip Murray, and Maurice Evans. All are players I would have persued before Tony Allen.

Of course, Danny might have persued them and was told no, but I guess we'll never know.

[EJPLAYA]

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then? I really would rather have had a bunch of other players that were still available at the time Tony was signed than Tony. I think James Posey came to terms with the Hornets on the 16th of July and at that time these players still hadn't signed: Matt Barnes, Ricky Davis, Kurt Thomas, Chris Andersen, Tyrone Lue, Flip Murray, and Maurice Evans. All are players I would have persued before Tony Allen.

Of course, Danny might have persued them and was told no, but I guess we'll never know.

I was right there with you Nick! I was right there as well in the first month of the season where he was actually playing okay. I knew as soon as the guy started playing better his ego would kick in and he would revert to bad Tony. I just threw a trade idea in another thread surrounding Ricky for that matter.

I think that Danny kept trying and trying and figured the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

[nickagneta]

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then? I really would rather have had a bunch of other players that were still available at the time Tony was signed than Tony. I think James Posey came to terms with the Hornets on the 16th of July and at that time these players still hadn't signed: Matt Barnes, Ricky Davis, Kurt Thomas, Chris Andersen, Tyrone Lue, Flip Murray, and Maurice Evans. All are players I would have persued before Tony Allen.

Of course, Danny might have persued them and was told no, but I guess we'll never know.

I was right there with you Nick! I was right there as well in the first month of the season where he was actually playing okay. I knew as soon as the guy started playing better his ego would kick in and he would revert to bad Tony. I just threw a trade idea in another thread surrounding Ricky for that matter.

I think that Danny kept trying and trying and figured the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

TP4U EJ because, yes indeed, you were one of the few of us. Sorry I left you off that list.

[EJPLAYA]

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then? I really would rather have had a bunch of other players that were still available at the time Tony was signed than Tony. I think James Posey came to terms with the Hornets on the 16th of July and at that time these players still hadn't signed: Matt Barnes, Ricky Davis, Kurt Thomas, Chris Andersen, Tyrone Lue, Flip Murray, and Maurice Evans. All are players I would have persued before Tony Allen.

Of course, Danny might have persued them and was told no, but I guess we'll never know.

I was right there with you Nick! I was right there as well in the first month of the season where he was actually playing okay. I knew as soon as the guy started playing better his ego would kick in and he would revert to bad Tony. I just threw a trade idea in another thread surrounding Ricky for that matter.

I think that Danny kept trying and trying and figured the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

TP4U EJ because, yes indeed, you were one of the few of us. Sorry I left you off that list.

No problem. I am just amazed that there are still people trying to convince us that he is solid. It baffles me. I really wish that I had been wrong though. Winning is the only thing that matters, and right now he really stagnates our second unit. Unless we make a move I say we bring in Gabe for a few games. That or bring up Walker.

[housecall]

Personally speaking,i never expected TA to replace Posey.
I did expect Danny and owners to do what he promised,"replace Posey by committee"...still waiting on the committee Danny.

  Seriously, folks.  I must be missing the part where we were undefeated with James Posey on our roster.

We're 27-4, for God's sakes.

Yes we are,thanks to having a good starting five...if you think the bench is as good or better than last season,then you are looking at different games than i am.

[billysan]

Personally speaking,i never expected TA to replace Posey.
I did expect Danny and owners to do what he promised,"replace Posey by committee"...still waiting on the committee Danny.

  Seriously, folks.  I must be missing the part where we were undefeated with James Posey on our roster.

We're 27-4, for God's sakes.

Yes we are,thanks to having a good starting five...if you think the bench is as good or better than last season,then you are looking at different games than i am.

The bench is certainly weaker, that much is certain. I see a lot of people lamenting the loss of Posey, but I think PJ Brown was every bit as importatnt during the playoffs. Just like Tony Allen is not going to replace James Posey, the reality is that Leon Powe is not going to replace PJ Brown.

The regular season record is impressive and I am excited by it. I am worried about our depth when it comes to the playoffs. Winning the division and getting home court advantage is nice, but it might not matter if our bench depth doesnt improve IMO.

As many have opined on this blog, we are a true back up center and a quality back up SF short.

[dark_lord]

billy, i agree whole-heartedly about the loss of pj and the impact he had with the club.

[housecall]

Personally speaking,i never expected TA to replace Posey.
I did expect Danny and owners to do what he promised,"replace Posey by committee"...still waiting on the committee Danny.

  Seriously, folks.  I must be missing the part where we were undefeated with James Posey on our roster.

We're 27-4, for God's sakes.

Yes we are,thanks to having a good starting five...if you think the bench is as good or better than last season,then you are looking at different games than i am.

The bench is certainly weaker, that much is certain. I see a lot of people lamenting the loss of Posey, but I think PJ Brown was every bit as importatnt during the playoffs. Just like Tony Allen is not going to replace James Posey, the reality is that Leon Powe is not going to replace PJ Brown.

The regular season record is impressive and I am excited by it. I am worried about our depth when it comes to the playoffs. Winning the division and getting home court advantage is nice, but it might not matter if our bench depth doesnt improve IMO.

As many have opined on this blog, we are a true back up center and a quality back up SF short.

I agree with you Billy PJ is missed as well.TP for your comments.

[Lucky17]

Personally speaking,i never expected TA to replace Posey.
I did expect Danny and owners to do what he promised,"replace Posey by committee"...still waiting on the committee Danny.

  Seriously, folks.  I must be missing the part where we were undefeated with James Posey on our roster.

We're 27-4, for God's sakes.

Yes we are,thanks to having a good starting five...if you think the bench is as good or better than last season,then you are looking at different games than i am.

The bench is certainly weaker, that much is certain. I see a lot of people lamenting the loss of Posey, but I think PJ Brown was every bit as importatnt during the playoffs. Just like Tony Allen is not going to replace James Posey, the reality is that Leon Powe is not going to replace PJ Brown.

The regular season record is impressive and I am excited by it. I am worried about our depth when it comes to the playoffs. Winning the division and getting home court advantage is nice, but it might not matter if our bench depth doesnt improve IMO.

As many have opined on this blog, we are a true back up center and a quality back up SF short.

This is true, and not difficult to achieve. A 2nd rounder to Memphis for Quinton Ross, and a call to PJ Brown in March might be all that's needed.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

The self-congratulation on this thread is laughable, but maybe I'm just under the mistaken assumption that discussion boards are for discussion

Actually, I have an idea.  Instead of wasting the next 3 pages of this thread agreeing with each other, y'all--namely cordobes, Nickagneta, CoachBo, EJPLAYA, dark_lord, Roy Hobbs, et al--should do Celticsblog a favor and just rent a house together where you can tell each other 24/7 just how great and logical you all are, playfully chide each other for your use of facts, hand out TPs to each other for little things like rolling out of bed, and sit around and remind yourself just how right you were 4 years ago when you first had this or that brilliant thought about TA's ultimate fate.  I mean, in the company of such prescient thinkers who obviously have no use for dissenting viewpoints (since they never bother to listen to or address them), what exactly is the use of posting on a discussion board?  Please, enlighten me.

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then?

All the Tony lovers are probably sitting out this pre-determined discussion with such prescient thinkers as yourself because they don't like being shouted down by the pack of sycophants who have descended upon this thread.  That, or they know it's a LONG season, with peaks and valleys, and that just as TA has had a downturn recently (which coincided with an ankle injury) they know he's just as likely to have an upturn sometime soon.  But big picture thinking like that, argument with nuance, doesn't fit the prescient types--they already knew it four years ago anyway....

[Nerf DPOY]

The self-congratulation on this thread is laughable, but maybe I'm just under the mistaken assumption that discussion boards are for discussion

Actually, I have an idea.  Instead of wasting the next 3 pages of this thread agreeing with each other, y'all--namely cordobes, Nickagneta, CoachBo, EJPLAYA, dark_lord, Roy Hobbs, et al--should do Celticsblog a favor and just rent a house together where you can tell each other 24/7 just how great and logical you all are, playfully chide each other for your use of facts, hand out TPs to each other for little things like rolling out of bed, and sit around and remind yourself just how right you were 4 years ago when you first had this or that brilliant thought about TA's ultimate fate.  I mean, in the company of such prescient thinkers who obviously have no use for dissenting viewpoints (since they never bother to listen to or address them), what exactly is the use of posting on a discussion board?  Please, enlighten me.

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then?

All the Tony lovers are probably sitting out this pre-determined discussion with such prescient thinkers as yourself because they don't like being shouted down by the pack of sycophants who have descended upon this thread.  That, or they know it's a LONG season, with peaks and valleys, and that just as TA has had a downturn recently (which coincided with an ankle injury) they know he's just as likely to have an upturn sometime soon.  But big picture thinking like that, argument with nuance, doesn't fit the prescient types--they already knew it four years ago anyway....

HaHa! There does seem to be a lot of high-fiving going on in this thread, and I got to learn a new word.

[nickagneta]

The self-congratulation on this thread is laughable, but maybe I'm just under the mistaken assumption that discussion boards are for discussion

Actually, I have an idea.  Instead of wasting the next 3 pages of this thread agreeing with each other, y'all--namely cordobes, Nickagneta, CoachBo, EJPLAYA, dark_lord, Roy Hobbs, et al--should do Celticsblog a favor and just rent a house together where you can tell each other 24/7 just how great and logical you all are, playfully chide each other for your use of facts, hand out TPs to each other for little things like rolling out of bed, and sit around and remind yourself just how right you were 4 years ago when you first had this or that brilliant thought about TA's ultimate fate.  I mean, in the company of such prescient thinkers who obviously have no use for dissenting viewpoints (since they never bother to listen to or address them), what exactly is the use of posting on a discussion board?  Please, enlighten me.

Earlier in the season and during the off season when the "Tony Allen will replace James Posey" and "Tony Allen will revert back to his form(16PPG, 4RPG, 3SPG) he was in just before hurting his knee in 2007" threads were out Roy, myself, CoachBo and a few others were getting hammered by saying exactly what we are saying now, that Tony is no better now than his rookie year. The Tony lovers came out of the woodwork and crucified us.

Where are all those guys now and where were all you people who are agreeing with us now, back then?

All the Tony lovers are probably sitting out this pre-determined discussion with such prescient thinkers as yourself because they don't like being shouted down by the pack of sycophants who have descended upon this thread.  That, or they know it's a LONG season, with peaks and valleys, and that just as TA has had a downturn recently (which coincided with an ankle injury) they know he's just as likely to have an upturn sometime soon.  But big picture thinking like that, argument with nuance, doesn't fit the prescient types--they already knew it four years ago anyway....

Please Salmon, expound us for simple folk what "prescient" means because when we have so much venomous sarcasm thrown our way we often have a hard time understanding those who use an extended vocabulary in such a mocking and condescending manner. Do you have a problem with our opinions, our self congratulatory attitudes or the fact that you have been dead wrong about the quality of Tony Allen's and the rest of the Celtics bench so far this year?

Tony is just in a slump you say because he has an ebb and flow to his game that the expansive season creates?!?! Or he's really inconsistent. I'd love to go back and quote stats regarding his inconsistency and how his game has shown next to no growth since his rookie year but you will do what you always do and that is poo-poo the stats and say that the Celtics stats that they keep tell a different story. Apparently the Celtics gathered sabermetrical stats say different things about Tony's game than those at ESPN or 82games.com.

But since we are obviously nothing more than attention seeking, self congratulatory, neophytes who haven't a clue what real basketball wisdom is please explain to us why Tony Allen's game is so valuable to this Celtics team and exactly what we are missing when we criticize the greatness that is Tony Allen. Please explain to us simple minded folk what we are all obviously missing.