A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[Celtics4ever]

What's up with the mountain? Is he like a zombie now or what?

he was the new Kingsguard, Ser Robert Strong that carried Cersei at the end.

[jpotter33]

Nice take on Reddit:  "The bonus here is that a Night's Watch vow is until death. He dies, gets resurrected, and is free from his vows - able to head off and kick ass, save family, conquer kingdoms, get married, and all that other stuff with a free conscience"

Yeah, maybe not.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

This just reeks of Kit lying to keep the ratings up and viewers engaged lol

[Kane3387]

Don't think there is any way that Jon dies. Lady Melissandre most likely brings him back.

I honestly wish there was just the show instead of the books, or at least that the show followed the books exactly. It just seems strange to me to diverge this much from the books.

Also, what the crap happened to Reek and Sansa?!

Where is Bran?

[Kane3387]

What's up with the mountain? Is he like a zombie now or what?

he was the new Kingsguard, Ser Robert Strong that carried Cersei at the end.

Yeah I realize that part but his face is all blue and he seemed like he was hypnotized or something.

[jpotter33]

Also, there's a certain point where GOT just can't kill off anymore of its likable characters. If they kill off every one of their likable characters, then nobody is going to want to watch the show. I fully expect Snow to be back in some capacity.

Also, I think GOT tries too hard to fit too much in these finale episodes to the point of not having enough time to properly set up each part. For example, Jon's death was really rushed, and it just seems they try too hard to pack so much into one episode at the end of each season.

[LarBrd33]

This is where changing things for the show gets into a strange illogical point.  Jon is obviously the big one, i.e. with knowing about Hardholmme it is a lot less logical for the brothers to act the way they did.  Made a lot more sense in the book since Hardholmme never happened.

Dany is fully healthy and yet can't hear an entire army of horsemen coming.  I mean come on.  In the books where she is sick and delirious it makes a lot more sense. 

Apparently the Shireen death scene happens in book 6, yet it just felt strange.  And why would the red woman do all that only to leave Stannis.  In the books when they aren't with him it makes more sense (though the battle doesn't happen yet).  And I really missed Mance being in Winterfell like he is in the books. 

And it is weird not having the Greyjoy's around like they are in the books.  I don't even think Theon's father has died on the show yet.  Very strange. 

Myrcella is very much alive in the books, so perhaps there is some antidote and she doesn't die, but that seems like an odd way for the story to go, especially since Jamie isn't with her.

Some things being changed on the show make a lot more sense (like I didn't mind Brienne getting redemption on Stannis), but most of the changes made seriously negatively affected the writing.

I haven't read the books, but I agree with this 100%.  It had all sorts of logic-defying problems.  The last 3 out of 4 episodes were pretty poorly written.

And if Jon is dead, it makes very little sense from a storytelling perspective.   Stannis dying at least serves the purpose of introducing the red woman to Jon... but if he died for nothing and Jon died for nothing and the red woman is hanging out at the wall for nothing... that's just garbage storytelling and a waste of everyone's time.  This is a vast and expansive world that has been going for thousands of years.  As a storyteller, you have to have reasons for picking this particular hiccup in existence to focus on.  As a storyteller, you have to have purpose for your characters.  You can't spend 50 hours focused on a gun on a bookshelf and then never show it being fired.    Jon Snow is a targaryen.  He's going to get resurrected by the red woman.  All of this is pretty clear if you pay attention.   They are adapting ridiculously long books... why waste 5 minutes showing the Red Woman coming on to Jon and hinting at his "you know nothing" future if it's not going to be followed through at some point?  Why waste an entire scene setting up an epic battle royale between the White Walker King and Jon Snow?  Why show us Jon Snow's story at all?  If it's not important, don't waste my [dang] time.

If Jon is dead... it makes the red woman entirely pointless as a character... and nobody would meet that with praise for Martin's arbitrary random writing style...  they would meet it with ridicule. 

Save the pointless randomness for Tim and Eric... not Game of Thrones.  Jon's alive.

[Evantime34]

Nice take on Reddit:  "The bonus here is that a Night's Watch vow is until death. He dies, gets resurrected, and is free from his vows - able to head off and kick ass, save family, conquer kingdoms, get married, and all that other stuff with a free conscience"

Yeah, maybe not.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

This just reeks of Kit lying to keep the ratings up and viewers engaged lol

I think he will come back as Ghost, and then eventually inhabit a different body. So Kit Harrington might be done on the show but I think Jon Snow will eventually return.

[jpotter33]

Nice take on Reddit:  "The bonus here is that a Night's Watch vow is until death. He dies, gets resurrected, and is free from his vows - able to head off and kick ass, save family, conquer kingdoms, get married, and all that other stuff with a free conscience"

Yeah, maybe not.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

This just reeks of Kit lying to keep the ratings up and viewers engaged lol

I think he will come back as Ghost, and then eventually inhabit a different body. So Kit Harrington might be done on the show but I think Jon Snow will eventually return.

How would he come back as Ghost? He wasn't a Warg was he?

[Evantime34]

Nice take on Reddit:  "The bonus here is that a Night's Watch vow is until death. He dies, gets resurrected, and is free from his vows - able to head off and kick ass, save family, conquer kingdoms, get married, and all that other stuff with a free conscience"

Yeah, maybe not.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

This just reeks of Kit lying to keep the ratings up and viewers engaged lol

I think he will come back as Ghost, and then eventually inhabit a different body. So Kit Harrington might be done on the show but I think Jon Snow will eventually return.

How would he come back as Ghost? He wasn't a Warg was he?

Yes he is

[jpotter33]

Nice take on Reddit:  "The bonus here is that a Night's Watch vow is until death. He dies, gets resurrected, and is free from his vows - able to head off and kick ass, save family, conquer kingdoms, get married, and all that other stuff with a free conscience"

Yeah, maybe not.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

This just reeks of Kit lying to keep the ratings up and viewers engaged lol

I think he will come back as Ghost, and then eventually inhabit a different body. So Kit Harrington might be done on the show but I think Jon Snow will eventually return.

How would he come back as Ghost? He wasn't a Warg was he?

Yes he is

Hmmm, well that definitely seems plausible then at least for the books, because I don't think the show ever portrayed him as a warg. And with Lady Melissandre coming back to the Wall when she didn't in the books, in addition to the lack of Lady Stoneheart, I'm guessing the show will have Melissandre raise him from the dead or something like that.

[Evantime34]

Nice take on Reddit:  "The bonus here is that a Night's Watch vow is until death. He dies, gets resurrected, and is free from his vows - able to head off and kick ass, save family, conquer kingdoms, get married, and all that other stuff with a free conscience"

Yeah, maybe not.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

This just reeks of Kit lying to keep the ratings up and viewers engaged lol

I think he will come back as Ghost, and then eventually inhabit a different body. So Kit Harrington might be done on the show but I think Jon Snow will eventually return.

How would he come back as Ghost? He wasn't a Warg was he?

Yes he is

Hmmm, well that definitely seems plausible then at least for the books, because I don't think the show ever portrayed him as a warg. And with Lady Melissandre coming back to the Wall when she didn't in the books, in addition to the lack of Lady Stoneheart, I'm guessing the show will have Melissandre raise him from the dead or something like that.

Yeah I thought Melisandre raising him from the dead was the most likely outcome, but then I remembered she wasn't at castle black in the books. That combined with the Kit Harrington saying he isn't coming back makes me think the most likely option is him turning into ghost.

Here is a link to a bunch of theories http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/14/game-of-thrones-finale-jon-snow-dead_n_7557158.html.

Also in the books, all of the Stark children except for Rickon and Sansa can warg (although they might just not have done it yet).

[LarBrd33]

Andy Greenwald nails it on Grantland... points out all the same things I just mentioned.  I should have read this before basically saying the same:

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-10-recap/

But let?s be honest. You don?t want to hear about any of that. You want to talk about Jon Snow, and I?ve made you wait long enough. So here you go: He?s not dead. There?s simply no way that he is, and I?ll enumerate all my reasons for saying so soon enough. But before I do, let me attempt the impossible and make a case for why it would be understandable if he were. To be clear, I didn?t say it would be OK. But if you squint, and then turn off your TV, and then walk around your block, and then break into your neighbor?s house and drink all of their gin until you pass out in one of their beds, it just might make a certain kind of sense. And here?s why:

All of that unaired history I talked about in the first paragraph, the stuff that fuels Book Reader Twitter and the outstanding columns of my colleague Jason Concepcion? From what I can tell, it?s basically the history of idiots. Sure, there are exceptions here and there ? good kings and nice maesters who really did their best before getting eaten by a dragon or decapitated by their nannies. But, by and large, the recorded history of Westeros seems to be a chronicle of unimaginable ****-ups, from Sea to Shivering Sea. (Remember the noble Dance of the Dragons Shireen was nattering on about last week? It was about social-climbing royal ****s attempting to hop onto the backs of 30-ton, fire-breathing killing machines. It worked out about as well as you?d imagine.)

What was instructive about Ned Stark in Season 1 was that his good intentions were swamped by his unconsidered actions. That?s the prism through which we need to examine Jon Snow. He was the rare player in the Game of Thrones paying attention to the forest ? so of course he got shivved in front of a tree. It was heartbreaking, yes. It was appalling. But it was all there, from his rough first arrival at Castle Black to his touching, on-the-nose-like-spectacles farewell with Sam. Jon was simply playing a different game than everyone else. And on Game of Thrones, as in real life, people don?t like freelancers. We admire people who stumble when following the rules far more than those who succeed by rewriting them.

But look: He?s not dead. Call me sensitive, call me emotional ? and you?d be right ? but I?m sure of it. Here?s why:

    #1 People are resurrected all the time on Game of Thrones. Remember Beric Dondarrion back in Season 3? It even happened last night, though the Mountain wasn?t really looking all that well behind his mask. Melisandre didn?t say much when she arrived at Castle Black ? being ignored by your vengeful fire god will do that to a lady ? but she must be there for something. And wasn?t she awfully interested in Jon?s blood once before?

   #2  Speaking of that blood: Boy, did David Nutter?s camera zoom in on it in the season?s last shot! People wondering how I called Jon?s fate in last week?s recap should know that I did it only by reading the giant, honking signs the show was throwing at me with Olly these past few weeks. Game of Thrones is many things. Subtle is not often among them.

   #3  The Night?s King epic ?Come at me, bro? from a few weeks ago needs to be answered, no? But even more than that dangling plot thread, there is simply too much intranarrative piping dependent on Jon?s presence to believe in his sudden demise. The whole fan-hypnotizing theory of ?R + L = J? (Google it, you?re safe) is no longer just a book thing ? rewatch the Littlefinger-Sansa scene in the crypts of Winterfell for proof. If Benioff and Weiss don?t care about that theory, why introduce it at all? And why mention that as the deal-sealing point that earned them the right to make this show when they solved it for Martin, as explained in my interview with them here? There are pages and pages of backstory that the showrunners have gleefully shorn. We are at the point where if it?s on the screen, it?s important, particularly for the eventual endgame.

Yes, Kit Harington is out there saying all the right things, but what do you expect? He?s a professional with a new career as a comedian to promote. Besides, loose lips and the reliable ravens of IMDb will reveal if he?s back in Iceland for Season 6 soon enough. The most important argument for Jon?s survival is actually less dependent on actor availability than it is on TV convention. Because let?s be real: There are likely only two seasons of Game of Thrones left. That?s 20 hours to remake a world, fight off a frozen death army, and maybe, just maybe, stage a Stark family reunion. (Don?t worry, party planners: You can book a small room.) And to do all that, we?re going to need heroes ? or, in Martin?s parlance, ?POV characters? ? and there simply isn?t enough time to call for reinforcements. Let?s heed the lesson that Stannis learned the hard way just last night: If you don?t have the horses, you can?t win the war. Daenerys can fly the dragons and Tyrion can crack wise and advise her, but someone?s gotta swing that great big sword, you know? And, real talk, it ain?t gonna be Rickon.

Does this weird outpouring of optimism contradict the central tenet of Thrones ? that the bad thing will always happen and, if it doesn?t, something worse likely will? Not necessarily. Getting stabbed to death by your brothers isn?t awesome, even if magic can somehow undo it. And, lest we forget, some truly awful things happened last night separate and apart from Jon. (Jaime?s time as an out-and-proud father was shorter than a shot clock.) I think it?s worth remembering that Game of Thrones succeeds as much for the way it celebrates genre tropes as the way it gleefully murders them. Giving a beloved hero a fake or temporary death may not be Sophocles, but it sure as hell is Spock.

More important than that, it sure as hell is TV. There?s nothing more familiar to contemporary viewers than a stunning cliffhanger at the end of a season, and this was a doozy. So much of this year was devoted to debates about the myriad things that happen offscreen on Game of Thrones, from chapters left out to sensibilities offended. Lost in all of this was the fact that when everything clicks, there?s simply nothing on the small screen as confoundingly, thrillingly big as Thrones. From Stannis and Shireen by the fireplace (I know, I know) to the slaughter at Hardhome, only Thrones can blow our minds and our hearts with such ridiculous consistency. In a perverse way, saving Jon at this point, after everything we just saw, is as radical a move as offing Ned was back in 2011. It?s precisely when we?ve been conditioned to zig that the show ought to zag. A brave TV show might cut off its prettiest nose to spite its face. But a smart and good one ? which Thrones has been more often than not, even in the bumpy second half of Season 5 ? would know better. A happy ending shouldn?t be expected. But a satisfying one is a different thing altogether. That?s why I am confident in saying that Jon, like my interest in Game of Thrones, will live to see another day.

And if I?m wrong, well, then you can be sure that I?ll be taking a long, public walk with the entirety of Twitter following behind me, fav-ing ?SHAME! SHAME!? each and every step of the way. Let me confess to you now: It?s a bet I?m willing to take. See you next spring.

[kozlodoev]

Don't think there is any way that Jon dies. Lady Melissandre most likely brings him back.

I honestly wish there was just the show instead of the books, or at least that the show followed the books exactly. It just seems strange to me to diverge this much from the books.

Also, what the crap happened to Reek and Sansa?!

Where is Bran?

Busy morphing into a tree.

By the way, Podrick is now officially next in line for the throne, and the heir apparent to House Baratheon, no?

[jordb2k5]

Don't think there is any way that Jon dies. Lady Melissandre most likely brings him back.

I honestly wish there was just the show instead of the books, or at least that the show followed the books exactly. It just seems strange to me to diverge this much from the books.

Also, what the crap happened to Reek and Sansa?!

Where is Bran?

Busy morphing into a tree.

By the way, Podrick is now officially next in line for the throne, and the heir apparent to House Baratheon, no?

I think you mean Gendry who traveled with Arya.  He actually could be on the throne but he was never legitimized (like how Ramsay was with his father).  Doubt it happens for him but who knows!

[Future Celtics Owner]

It was nice seeing the mountain again. Her face changed instantly once she saw him.

Also I am looking forward to learning more about the night's king. I think he has some connection with Jon Snow.
Now that Jon died, even if he is brought back to life, his vows are complete. I heard the nights king was once a Lord Comander and was killed by his men.