Author Topic: NBA's all-time starting 5  (Read 16262 times)

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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2013, 04:07:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #91 on: May 02, 2013, 04:36:52 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.

Anyway, my personal starting five is pretty boring, if only because I've seen it posted a few times already:

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Bird
PF - Duncan
C - Russell

LeBron would definitely be on my 2nd team though.  We shouldn't forget that basketball is played on both ends.  LeBron can defend multiple positions at an elite level while Dominique can't defend any at even an average level.

2nd team

PG - Oscar
SG - Kobe
SF - LeBron
PF - Hakeem
C - Wilt

3rd team

PG - Isiah
SG - Jerry West
SF - Havlicek
PF - Garnett
C - Kareem

The hardest decisions are at the Center position.  After sneaking Hakeem in at PF, which is reasonable with his size and athleticism, I am left without Shaq.

Elgin Baylor vs. John Havlicek is another tough call at SF, so I'll go with the guy with the greater longevity (plus, he's a Celtic).
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 05:00:45 PM by celtsfan84 »

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #92 on: May 02, 2013, 04:43:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.
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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #93 on: May 02, 2013, 04:45:25 PM »

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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #94 on: May 02, 2013, 04:46:02 PM »

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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #95 on: May 02, 2013, 05:13:38 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #96 on: May 02, 2013, 05:40:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

  It's more that the best player on the Lakers and Celts didn't switch to teams with better players in order to win.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #97 on: May 02, 2013, 05:50:51 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

  It's more that the best player on the Lakers and Celts didn't switch to teams with better players in order to win.

This is just conjecture on my part, but I'm guessing that if LeBron had Kareem and Worthy on his team or McHale, Parish, and DJ, he probably wouldn't have switched to a team with better players in order to win.  We'll never know.

His options were to 1) leave and make a more effective run at the NBA title or 2) stay and be like KG in Minnesota, carrying well inferior players.  He chose to leave.  I can't blame him.

In his last series loss against the Celtics, Boston had the better coach and four of the five best players in the series.  His best teammate in Cleveland, Mo Williams, certainly isn't McHale, Kareem, Pippen, or Kobe.

His Finals team in 2007 might be the worst starting lineup in Finals history : Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas coached by Mike Brown.  That's putrid.

No NBA player has ever won an NBA title alone.  LeBron gave Cleveland 7 years.  The best they could do was Mo Williams and Mike Brown.  I'd be willing to bet that Pat Riley, Jerry West, Danny Ainge, or Red Auerbach would have done better in 7 years.  Don't you agree?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 06:20:52 PM by celtsfan84 »

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #98 on: May 02, 2013, 05:58:29 PM »

Offline illestmcsgt

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Altogether, it's a balanced offensive and defensive team. I can't imagine any other starting 5 beating them.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #99 on: May 03, 2013, 04:49:42 AM »

Offline Mogreen17

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Great discussion guys.

Didn't expect to see so much Lebron acknowledgement as I did but then again Celtics fans are indiscriminate like that.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2013, 04:54:26 AM »

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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2013, 05:51:53 AM »

Offline BballTim

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

  It's more that the best player on the Lakers and Celts didn't switch to teams with better players in order to win.

This is just conjecture on my part, but I'm guessing that if LeBron had Kareem and Worthy on his team or McHale, Parish, and DJ, he probably wouldn't have switched to a team with better players in order to win.  We'll never know.

His options were to 1) leave and make a more effective run at the NBA title or 2) stay and be like KG in Minnesota, carrying well inferior players.  He chose to leave.  I can't blame him.

In his last series loss against the Celtics, Boston had the better coach and four of the five best players in the series.  His best teammate in Cleveland, Mo Williams, certainly isn't McHale, Kareem, Pippen, or Kobe.

His Finals team in 2007 might be the worst starting lineup in Finals history : Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas coached by Mike Brown.  That's putrid.

No NBA player has ever won an NBA title alone.  LeBron gave Cleveland 7 years.  The best they could do was Mo Williams and Mike Brown.  I'd be willing to bet that Pat Riley, Jerry West, Danny Ainge, or Red Auerbach would have done better in 7 years.  Don't you agree?

  It's likely they would have done better, but then I don't think that they spent much time running their franchises with a player like LeBron forcing them into moves that they probably wouldn't have wanted to make otherwise.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2013, 05:54:27 AM »

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The two bigs protecting the ring would be the most intimidating tandem, and hakeem can kill it on offense.
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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2013, 08:13:58 AM »

Offline bdm860

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

  It's more that the best player on the Lakers and Celts didn't switch to teams with better players in order to win.

This is just conjecture on my part, but I'm guessing that if LeBron had Kareem and Worthy on his team or McHale, Parish, and DJ, he probably wouldn't have switched to a team with better players in order to win.  We'll never know.

His options were to 1) leave and make a more effective run at the NBA title or 2) stay and be like KG in Minnesota, carrying well inferior players.  He chose to leave.  I can't blame him.

In his last series loss against the Celtics, Boston had the better coach and four of the five best players in the series.  His best teammate in Cleveland, Mo Williams, certainly isn't McHale, Kareem, Pippen, or Kobe.

His Finals team in 2007 might be the worst starting lineup in Finals history : Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas coached by Mike Brown.  That's putrid.

No NBA player has ever won an NBA title alone.  LeBron gave Cleveland 7 years.  The best they could do was Mo Williams and Mike Brown.  I'd be willing to bet that Pat Riley, Jerry West, Danny Ainge, or Red Auerbach would have done better in 7 years.  Don't you agree?

  It's likely they would have done better, but then I don't think that they spent much time running their franchises with a player like LeBron forcing them into moves that they probably wouldn't have wanted to make otherwise.

I think that kind of reasoning just shows how bad management was in Cleveland.

How can LeBron force them to make moves?  The only way he can really force them to make moves was by threatening to leave, which he could only really do in 2010 (and to a lesser extent 2006 when he signed his extension). 

Cleveland didn't have to make bad moves to appease LeBron for the first 6 years, it doesn't really matter as much if LeBron is happy then.  It only matters if you've been able to put a great team around him by 2010, if you can do that, then he'll be happy even if you didn't make the moves he wanted earlier. Caving to a players demands when they don't have leverage is a sign of terrible management.

Two examples I think of.  Chris Webber got traded to Sacramento and hated it, said he'd leave soon as his contract was up.  But they put a great team around him so he ended up re-signing.  Doesn't matter if the player doesn't like the city/team when he gets there, just matters if he likes it when he's about to leave.

Kobe Bryant in 2007 wanted to be traded.  Kobe Bryant also wanted the Lakers to trade Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd.  Unfortunately LAL most likely has 3 more Finals appearances and 2 more championships because they didn't listen to Bryant.  Cleveland probably would have made the Kidd for Bynum trade in a heartbeat.

Other great stars did't have to leave because they weren't on terrible teams.  Plus free agency wasn't around until players like Bird and Magic were already on the back end of their careers.

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Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #104 on: May 03, 2013, 08:14:23 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

Glad to see some reasonable heads on this.  Tired of that LeBron bashing.

This is all you need to say: Larry Hughes (LARRY HUGHES) was brought in by management and was billed literally as a "Pippen".

The organization was terribly incompetent.  KG says he wished he came to the Celtics before instead of staying in Minny.  No one likes to waste away.  If we are all going to hold players to this "ring" measurement of success, please, save the criticism of them taking the best opportunities to win.  You don't win without multiple stars (the only exceptions being at times when the league was pretty bad).
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford