#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[D.o.s.]

FWIW, Lester Munson (who is great, even as an ESPN employee) wrote a Q&A about the possibility of a lawsuit. :

Q: The Patriots' rebuttal Thursday was aggressive and detailed. What was the purpose of this attack on Goodell and the investigation?

A: It is possible the Patriots' rebuttal will become the foundation for a lawsuit against Goodell and the league. But it is more likely that the purpose of the rebuttal was a form of damage control. It offers material for the Patriots' true-believer fans to use as they continue to support their beloved team.

It might diminish the effect of the investigation's assault upon the team's reputation in its market. But it's highly unlikely owner Bob Kraft will file any litigation against the NFL. If he filed a lawsuit, he would join the late Al Davis and Donald Sterling as the only sports team owners to sue their fellow owners. Kraft does not want to be in any group that includes Davis and Sterling.

Q: What advantages, if any, does Brady enjoy in this appeal?

A: In reality, just the notion that it cannot get any worse for him.

Whether the arbitrator is Goodell, Henderson or an independent person, the arbitrator cannot increase the suspension. If the arbitrator looks at all the evidence and concludes that Brady was guilty of a form of cheating that affected the integrity of the competition in the most successful sports enterprise in America, the arbitrator could not suspend Brady for more than four games. If the arbitrator had the power to actually increase a penalty, well, Brady and the NFLPA might not have filed an appeal.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

He also thinks there's no way the NFLPA has a chance in court. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he's way smarter than I am, so.

[Rondo2287]

Brady finally comes out with a statement (you know, for the people in this thread that kinda actually care and have been following this from the start  )

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/29/tom-brady-im-very-disappointed-i-did-nothing-wrong/

  He seems to be claiming his old phone was broken, although everything prior to that statement pointed to something completely different. Also, he tells us all about why he never intended to give his phone or the texts to the league, yet he talks about asking the phone company if they could retrieve the texts. Not really credible, unless the plan was to have his assistant destroy some of their servers if they claimed they had the texts.

I think the "Destroyed His Phone" Narrative was a red herring

I think replaced his phone is more accurate. 

Also Brady and the patriots did provide all cell phones for every non NFLPA employee of the patriots, so they saw every text that brady sent to Belichick, and the two equipment guys.

Finally Brady presented new information during his appeal which was the records of every text he sent on that phone and offered to assist the NFL in gathering any text they wanted.

  Replaced isn't more accurate. He doesn't have the old phone to give them, because it (and the sim card) were (apparently) deliberately destroyed. If Brady had the phone destroyed and had confirmed with the carrier that they couldn't retrieve the texts, how was he going to assist the NFL in gathering those texts? A seance?

How do you know the phone was destroyed rather than replaced?

He provided all phone records.  If the other person did not delete them you can still see them.  Also as previously noted all relevant communications between Brady and other Patriots personnel were already provided.

[PhoSita]

FWIW, Lester Munson (who is great, even as an ESPN employee) wrote a Q&A about the possibility of a lawsuit. :

Q: The Patriots' rebuttal Thursday was aggressive and detailed. What was the purpose of this attack on Goodell and the investigation?

A: It is possible the Patriots' rebuttal will become the foundation for a lawsuit against Goodell and the league. But it is more likely that the purpose of the rebuttal was a form of damage control. It offers material for the Patriots' true-believer fans to use as they continue to support their beloved team.

It might diminish the effect of the investigation's assault upon the team's reputation in its market. But it's highly unlikely owner Bob Kraft will file any litigation against the NFL. If he filed a lawsuit, he would join the late Al Davis and Donald Sterling as the only sports team owners to sue their fellow owners. Kraft does not want to be in any group that includes Davis and Sterling.

Q: What advantages, if any, does Brady enjoy in this appeal?

A: In reality, just the notion that it cannot get any worse for him.

Whether the arbitrator is Goodell, Henderson or an independent person, the arbitrator cannot increase the suspension. If the arbitrator looks at all the evidence and concludes that Brady was guilty of a form of cheating that affected the integrity of the competition in the most successful sports enterprise in America, the arbitrator could not suspend Brady for more than four games. If the arbitrator had the power to actually increase a penalty, well, Brady and the NFLPA might not have filed an appeal.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

He also thinks there's no way the NFLPA has a chance in court. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he's way smarter than I am, so.

I'm a biased Pats fan, and I'm not well versed in the applicable area of law, but it's just difficult for me to believe that an independent arbitrator would look at all of the facts, and how this has been handled by both sides from the start, and determine that 4 games was a reasonable suspension.  Maybe the standard is higher than that -- maybe the decision needs to have been without merit, or arbitrary and capricious, or something like that.

I still think 4 games would get knocked down on that basis.  We'll see, I guess.



The bottom line here for me is that Brady is being punished for the past conduct of his organization, and the stated basis for that punishment is his general awareness of rule breaking by other people in the organization.  None of that is a valid basis for punishing Brady personally.

If the court sees it the same way, I can't imagine the punishment standing.

[Evantime34]

I feel like the NFL deliberately has been leaking false information to the press at every step in the process. Then later on it is refuted, but at that point ESPN has already talked about the false information for days and it is stuck in people's minds. That 11 of 12 balls were initially reported deflated and the original psi number being false it seems that ESPN is just a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the NFL is pushing.

It does seem like all the information we are getting in the news is from the NFL. Don Yee's statement yesterday made it seem that the NFL clearly did not give Brady a fair appeal.

That Brady's camp offered to give the numbers of all the people Brady has texted with in the past and the NFL simply said no seems kind of ridiculous. The NFL asked for Brady's texts and Brady offered a way in which to provide them, but the NFL said, no thanks we would rather just paint you as uncooperative and keep the suspension.

It just seems that with some of the recent Goodell suspensions getting overturned by independent arbiters, Goodell refused to take the chance that there would be a fair appeals process. Brady very well could/might have done something wrong but the manner in which this process took place indicates that the NFL knows they can't completely prove it so they are distorting the facts in the court of public opinion.

[D.o.s.]

I feel like the NFL deliberately has been leaking false information to the press at every step in the process. Then later on it is refuted, but at that point ESPN has already talked about the false information for days and it is stuck in people's minds. That 11 of 12 balls were initially reported deflated and the original psi number being false it seems that ESPN is just a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the NFL is pushing.

Whatever you think of Keith Olbermann and Bill Simmons, they were both let go from the worldwide leader (at least in part) because of their adversarial comments towards the NFL's front office.

[kozlodoev]

Replaced isn't more accurate. He doesn't have the old phone to give them, because it (and the sim card) were (apparently) deliberately destroyed. If Brady had the phone destroyed and had confirmed with the carrier that they couldn't retrieve the texts, how was he going to assist the NFL in gathering those texts? A seance?

You realize that when you send a text, it goes to another device right?

It just so happens that Brady provided the league with a complete list of the people he texted (in addition to the phone company printouts). However, the NFL deemed it "impractical" to follow up with those people. Yes, the same league that apparently thought it very practical to spend a ton of time an money on an external investigation of an equipment violation.

Cue in the applause.

[PhoSita]

I feel like the NFL deliberately has been leaking false information to the press at every step in the process. Then later on it is refuted, but at that point ESPN has already talked about the false information for days and it is stuck in people's minds. That 11 of 12 balls were initially reported deflated and the original psi number being false it seems that ESPN is just a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the NFL is pushing.

Whatever you think of Keith Olbermann and Bill Simmons, they were both let go from the worldwide leader (at least in part) because of their adversarial comments towards the NFL's front office.

Yup.  ESPN may not be a shill for the NFL, exactly, but they are not interested in presenting openly critical opinions of the leagues that form the basis of their business. 

I think it's fair to say that ESPN is at least a partner with the various major sports leagues.  Not accurate to call it a "news" or "journalism" organization.

[Donoghus]

I feel like the NFL deliberately has been leaking false information to the press at every step in the process. Then later on it is refuted, but at that point ESPN has already talked about the false information for days and it is stuck in people's minds. That 11 of 12 balls were initially reported deflated and the original psi number being false it seems that ESPN is just a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the NFL is pushing.

Whatever you think of Keith Olbermann and Bill Simmons, they were both let go from the worldwide leader (at least in part) because of their adversarial comments towards the NFL's front office.

Yup.  ESPN may not be a shill for the NFL, exactly, but they are not interested in presenting openly critical opinions of the leagues that form the basis of their business. 

I think it's fair to say that ESPN is at least a partner with the various major sports leagues.  Not accurate to call it a "news" or "journalism" organization.

ESPN is also already (internally) peeved that its Monday Night slate (which it pays a ridiculous amount of money for) is constantly inferior to the Sunday Night package that NBC is receiving.

The notion is that any super harsh criticism towards the league (the Commissioner's office, in particular) isn't going to help them in the future with Monday Night scheduling has certainly contributed to ESPN's "soft" tone towards the NFL here and, as DOS mentioned, seems like it contribute, in part, to the ouster of Simmons & Olbermann.  Although, trimming their talent budget was a factor too.

[GratefulCs]

From Brady's statement this morning:

I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline.

Clearly this whole thing is just an elaborate scheme devised by Brady and his secret corporate sponsor, Apple, to promote the iPhone 6.

I personally think switching from Android to Apple is an unforgivable offense that merits even more than a 4 game ban. 

one of my friends posted the same thing on facebook today. Is the iphone really inferior to the android style? I have a flip phone so i don't know the difference besides some restrictions with apple

[kozlodoev]

From Brady's statement this morning:

I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline.

Clearly this whole thing is just an elaborate scheme devised by Brady and his secret corporate sponsor, Apple, to promote the iPhone 6.

I personally think switching from Android to Apple is an unforgivable offense that merits even more than a 4 game ban. 

one of my friends posted the same thing on facebook today. Is the iphone really inferior to the android style? I have a flip phone so i don't know the difference besides some restrictions with apple

Nah, it's more of a knee-jerk thing

Personally, I have never liked where Apple products sit on the tradeoff line between hands-on control and user friendliness.

[D.o.s.]

Although, trimming their talent budget was a factor too.

That's true, but I mean there's a reason they offered Colin Cowherd (who says the most "your family has to apologize for him uncle" style of mindbogglingly stupid things on a regular basis) a bigger deal and straight up cut Simmons + KO.

[Eja117]

I feel like the NFL deliberately has been leaking false information to the press at every step in the process. Then later on it is refuted, but at that point ESPN has already talked about the false information for days and it is stuck in people's minds. That 11 of 12 balls were initially reported deflated and the original psi number being false it seems that ESPN is just a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the NFL is pushing.

It does seem like all the information we are getting in the news is from the NFL. Don Yee's statement yesterday made it seem that the NFL clearly did not give Brady a fair appeal.

That Brady's camp offered to give the numbers of all the people Brady has texted with in the past and the NFL simply said no seems kind of ridiculous. The NFL asked for Brady's texts and Brady offered a way in which to provide them, but the NFL said, no thanks we would rather just paint you as uncooperative and keep the suspension.

It just seems that with some of the recent Goodell suspensions getting overturned by independent arbiters, Goodell refused to take the chance that there would be a fair appeals process. Brady very well could/might have done something wrong but the manner in which this process took place indicates that the NFL knows they can't completely prove it so they are distorting the facts in the court of public opinion.

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

[kozlodoev]

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

Well, the NFL claimed they didn't want the phone, just a curated list of texts about ball preparation. Which Brady refused to provide. So this is still confusing, given that Brady hasn't disputed this claim.

[footey]

FWIW, Lester Munson (who is great, even as an ESPN employee) wrote a Q&A about the possibility of a lawsuit. :

Q: The Patriots' rebuttal Thursday was aggressive and detailed. What was the purpose of this attack on Goodell and the investigation?

A: It is possible the Patriots' rebuttal will become the foundation for a lawsuit against Goodell and the league. But it is more likely that the purpose of the rebuttal was a form of damage control. It offers material for the Patriots' true-believer fans to use as they continue to support their beloved team.

It might diminish the effect of the investigation's assault upon the team's reputation in its market. But it's highly unlikely owner Bob Kraft will file any litigation against the NFL. If he filed a lawsuit, he would join the late Al Davis and Donald Sterling as the only sports team owners to sue their fellow owners. Kraft does not want to be in any group that includes Davis and Sterling.

Q: What advantages, if any, does Brady enjoy in this appeal?

A: In reality, just the notion that it cannot get any worse for him.

Whether the arbitrator is Goodell, Henderson or an independent person, the arbitrator cannot increase the suspension. If the arbitrator looks at all the evidence and concludes that Brady was guilty of a form of cheating that affected the integrity of the competition in the most successful sports enterprise in America, the arbitrator could not suspend Brady for more than four games. If the arbitrator had the power to actually increase a penalty, well, Brady and the NFLPA might not have filed an appeal.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

He also thinks there's no way the NFLPA has a chance in court. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he's way smarter than I am, so.

You lost me at "Lester Munson, (who is great"...

[Eja117]

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

Well, the NFL claimed they didn't want the phone, just a curated list of texts about ball preparation. Which Brady refused to provide. So this is still confusing, given that Brady hasn't disputed this claim.

Well there you have it....there's your smoking gun....I mean they didn't even want the texts. They just wanted a list OF texts. Because lists are very helpful in these kinds of investigations.

So thaaaattt's why they release something yesterday with the heading "Brady destroyed phone"

The NFL has found as easy target. Or at least they thought so.