CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: kp4000 on November 14, 2012, 01:09:01 PM
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Are the Knicks contenders or pretenders? Yea, I went the ESPN route by overreacting to wins and loses, because I couldn't help myself.
The Knicks are currently at 5-0, the first time in many years they've started out undefeated. With a new coach Mike Woodson and the oldest bench in NBA history the Knicks are position to make noise. With that said the Knicks undefeated streak will likely end sooner or later and not because of Amare Stoudemire.
The Knicks not known for defense are leading the league in defensive stats though it's still early in the season. They've defeated their opponents by margin of 100 points while holding them to under 90pts. Yes, it's shocking the Knicks are playing defensive and shooting the ball well. All this while their second best scorer, Amare is out and their best defender, Shumpert is out too.
So of course ESPN's Sportcenter and First Take had to over anyalize and break down the Knicks recent success.
Stephen A. Smith said, " If Amare comes back healthy I believe they can beat anyone in the east expect for Miami"
Next up:
Tim Legler, said " I think the Knicks can contend with Miami, because I'm Miami is no longer scared of Boston. Miami has Ray Allen on their side".
With quotes like that it's no wonder why TNT's NBA is doing much better than ESPN's NBA countdown in the ratings department or anything related ESPN. So here's the hypocrisy in those quotes. Just two, three weeks ago both Smith and Legler where singing praises for the Celtics and how they're the only team in the east that can contend or beat Miami in a 7 gm series.
Now they're singing a different tone, because the Knicks are 5-0. How quickly do things change especially at ESPN. Yes, the Knicks are 5-0, but keep in my mind they played a Miami team that didn't want to be in NYC after the Hurrican Sandy, then the Knicks defeated the Sixers back to back without Bynum and Richardson. They also defeated the Mavs without Dirk. Yesterday the Knicks defeated an Orlando team without Turkoleu, Nelson or Harrington, and struggled against the Magic for 3.5 quarters.
So no Bynum, Richardson, Dirk, Nelson, Harrignton or Turko, but they're serious enough to challenge Miami or Boston, am I missing something, folks?
What do u guys think are the Knicks right now serious enough to contend in 7 gm series with Miami, Boston or a healthy Pacers or Bulls team?
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meh, they only played 5 games, too small of a sample size, and we're playing our 8th game tonight. They are pretenders...they might make 2nd round this year but I doubt they are serious title contenders...
Though I must say Raymond Felton is an upgrade over Lin. But Amare's health is still an issue
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Nope -- but maybe next year after a few more personnel changes.
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The Knicks are on a hot streak, for sure, and they will come back to earth a bit.
However, it is also notable that they had a very good off-season. Although we all make fun of them for getting older, the truth is all the players they grabbed are efficient. With Amare injured, the Knicks don't have any particular weakpoints, although obviously with old age the potential for things to go wrong is clearly higher.
Basically, they pulled the same move Danny Ainge did two seasons ago, grabbing Shaq and Jermaine. When they were healthy, we were nigh unstoppable, but unfortunately injury happened. If the Knicks are lucky with their injuries, they can have a great regular season with Melo at PF and everyone else just playing competently.
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"Because Miami is no longer scared of Boston..."
Sounds like 2010 to me.
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I think that if everything rolls right for the Knicks, they could definitely beat Miami in a playoff series.
Of course, like we saw last year, they need a lot of breaks to get it.
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lucky
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I think the Knicks are easily the third best team in the east, especially if everything goes right. If Carmelo plays like a semi unselfish all star, chandler keeps anchoring the defense and their old foggies fall into their roles they can turn some heads. I think amare might actually hurt them a bit and distrust their chemistry.
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I still don't completely believe in the Knicks, but I'll say this about them - right now, we're contenders on reputation but not results. They're contenders on results but not reputation.
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Maybe, the opportunity is there.
New York have ALWAYS had the talent since Carmello came over, they have just never had anything resembling good chemistry on either side of the floor.
To me the biggest issue with the Knicks was their lack of organisation on the court. People raved about Linsanity but I always thought he was a pure numbers guy - he put nice figures on the box score, but he wasn't the type of PG who could run an offense or put a team on his back. Not the kind of player guys like Amare and Carmello would listen to and respect.
When they picked up Kidd and Camby I thought that changed everything. Even at his age Kidd is one of the best floor generals in the game, and a guy who demands respect no matter who he plays with. Camby is another veteran who demands respect and who has been a dominant defense force in the leaguee his entire career - he's basically like an old and less athletic Tyson Chandler.
Then they got Felton and everybody mocked the move, but Felton played exceptional basketball the during his first stint in New York - his numbers improved dramatically, and the second he left he faded back down into the land of the mediocre. He seemed to fit the New York offense like a glove.
On top of all this, NY have been a dramatically improved team every since their change of coach and since that day they have been much better defensively.
Put all of this together along with the fact that they already have star power and an incredibly deep bench, and I always felt like this team was one 'chemistry bottle' away from being a contender.
The real telling sign will be what happens when Amare gets back - that's what I'm waiting to see. I don't know if all of this success will remain, and if not I think they will try to move him.
Still it is too early in the season to say for sure - this could just be a freak run and then they might lose the plot. I get the feeling they are going to be a top 4 team in the easy this year though along with Boston and Miami - not yet decided on who the 4th team will be.
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Hope Not.
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I wont believe it until they beat us in the playoffs or make it to the ECF.
Otherwise how would they be different than the last two years?
They're a cute story right now I guess though
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It's really early and those old guys feel good. Let's see what they look like in April.
Also Amare could either sink this team or catapult them to true contender status.
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I wont believe it until they beat us in the playoffs or make it to the ECF.
Otherwise how would they be different than the last two years?
They're a cute story right now I guess though
The last two years they had no chemistry, played very little defense and struggled to float above 0.500
This year they have great chemistry, are playing dominat defense, and are beating every team they play convincingly.
That's a big difference...though as I said it's still early.
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Didn't they win like 13 in a row during Felton's one year there? It's Feltonsanity all over again.
But no... I don't expect much from them this year.
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During the preseason I told guys that NYK will be a suprise @ East Conference. The same thing in my opinion wille Denver @ West Conference
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I also said watch out for the Knicks before the season and ppl laugh. Now who's laughing. They have 2 very good PG's in Felton and Kidd to go along with the good frontcourt. JR Smith is tearing it up. And without Amare!!
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NO, they will choke give them time it is early. I don't see them making it out of the second round.
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wait for amare's return... and the losing pattern that comes with it.
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well lets see how they do against memphis today. Memphis has been beasting as of late.
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I think it's mainly on carmelo. Much like pierce he has to play the better team game and sacrifice shots and stats. Kidd and chandler change their makeup for sure. Much to early to tell
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I think it's mainly on carmelo. Much like pierce he has to play the better team game and sacrifice shots and stats. Kidd and chandler change their makeup for sure. Much to early to tell
Offense has got to come from somewhere. Personally I don't think it matters if it comes from Carmelo, Amare, Lin, or Novak.
I think it's Tyson Chandler's presence that really makes the team. I've always said Miami is brainless for not signing LeBron and just waiting a year for Chandler instead of Bosh.
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They are absolutely for real. They now have real PG play and they have an excellent bench (much better than the C's). I think they win the division with Brooklyn coming in 2nd.
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They're legit right now. They've upgraded at PG, improved their depth, and are gelling.
Grantland had a good article on how well Melo's doing and how that might change when Amare gets back because he'll eat up space in the post. But on the flip, Shumpert's a guy who scares me so if he comes back healthy that's a guy they can throw in anytime and he'll be effective.
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They're legit right now. They've upgraded at PG, improved their depth, and are gelling.
Grantland had a good article on how well Melo's doing and how that might change when Amare gets back because he'll eat up space in the post. But on the flip, Shumpert's a guy who scares me so if he comes back healthy that's a guy they can throw in anytime and he'll be effective.
Legit? Naw, they're playing like how a good basketball team should be playing. They're shooting the ball well, defending and rebounding, and their bench seems to have an identity. I wish I can say the same for the Celtics. But I still think the Knicks or Nets don't stand a chance the Heat once playoffs come.
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Too early people, too early.
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I find leglers quote particually amusing....I don't exactly think Miami has been or is scared of anyone...I'm sure they still respect the celtics as much as any team...but as far as the knickerbockers go I think they're as much a contender as us at this point sorrrry
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Too early people, too early.
Yup. If it wasn't in NY itd like the Sixers last year.
Is Lin still in the league? Haven't heard from him since hr left NY
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NYK looking real good against MIA tonight. Up by 17 in the 4th quarter in Miami.
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blowing out the Cheat without Mello and Amarie in Miami is pretty serious.
Wade looked OLD and LOST
Bosh ...wimpy
James ..was dog tired trying to keep the Cheat in the game.
Allen was of little use...out played by Sheed.
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Oh, meant to post this here and not in the general regular season thread.
The Knicks are shooting freakishly well from three point range.
One of three teams to be shooting over 40% from three (only 8 other teams have done this over the course of a full season) and are leading the league in both attempts and makes. If they did keep up this three point barrage, the Knicks would become the 9th team to shoot over 40% from three but would do so while taking almost 50% more attempts than every other team on the list.
The vast majority of their success right now is coming from that unbelievable shooting from that three point spot + forcing turnovers (4th) and avoiding turnovers themselves (1st) at a high clip. The rest of their indicators are all fairly underwhelming:
(1) Possession creation = neutral = out-rebounded frequently and badly but have a very positive turnover differential that gets them to neutral.
(2) 23rd in defensive eFG%, 12th in defensive reb%, 13th in defensive efficiency
(3) Carmelo Anthony is currently their only dependable / prolific shot creator. Nobody else on the team is even scoring 15ppg. The second leading scorer is Raymond Felton who has been a choke artist in the playoffs in the past. Then JR Smith (erratic) and Tyson Chandler who can't make a shot outside of five feet. They don't have enough creators to generate quality shot attempts consistently in tough playoff series.
Once Amare and Shumpert come back, I think the Knicks hot-shooting will slow down and their turnovers will increase considerably.
They'll lose some of their spacing offensively and won't be able to play as small lineup wise as they have done (two PGs, two perimeter orientated forwards, only one big). Amare will force them into more conventional lineups. Floor will shrink. Turnovers will increase. Amare will add some shot-creation but I think the Knicks will lose more offensively with his return than they gain due to their chemistry / personnel issues. Shumpert is just plain inefficient and erratic offensively.
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Is Amare really that much worse of a shooter than Ronnie Brewer?
Edit: The few games I've seen of them I thought they were an amazing pick and roll team (Chandler, Prigioni, Kidd, Melo, even Felton has been good).
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well they pretty much destroy Miami yesterday so I will say theyre a dangerous team
p.s. maybe destroy was a little over the top but i was drunk yesterday so dont blame me
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
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They look good so far this year. That said, they're only 4 games ahead of Boston. A little early to write the book on this season, for any team.
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I'm trying to put a positive spin on the improvements in NJ, NY and Philly this year. I'm hoping that the C's will finally figure out that they can't coast all year that they develop a sense of urgency to get it together long before the playoffs come around
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I see the same thing i did when we matched up against them in preseason...Better than us right now even with all the dreaded excuse of "roster turnover" still waiting on shumpert and stoudemire too
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So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
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So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Uh yes? Did derrick rose mvp and teams best record prove he was better than lebron? Carmelo is great but he has a ton of catching up to do individual and teamwise to be anywhere near lebron....also didn't help his team blew out the heat while he sat on the bench with a hurt finger.
lebron just came off a league mvp, dominant playoff run, finals mvp and leading the Usa to gold...the same team carmelo was a role player on.
Are you a Syracuse alum or something?
Better than pierce? Ok
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So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Yes.
Even this year in which Carmelo seems to be playing the best of his career LeBron has been better.
The MVP isn't about who's the best player, its about the best storyline.
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So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Yes.
Even this year in which Carmelo seems to be playing the best of his career LeBron has been better.
The MVP isn't about who's the best player, its about the best storyline.
Nah don't use that excuse
Because whenever there is a debate on who is better Lebron or Carmelo, what they always bring up?
Lebron's MVP trophies
Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron
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Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron
Except he's not a better scorer.
LeBron scores more points, scores those points more efficiently (better eFG% and TS%). Besides scoring LeBron is a better defender, a better rebounder, and a far better passer.
All you're left with is the idea that Carmelo is a better "clutch" (however you choose to define it I'm guessing subjectively) player, and Carmelo is a slightly better three point shooter and free throw shooter.
Head to Head LeBron has also outperformed Carmelo (team record is essentially even 11-10):
http://bkref.com/tiny/TsgDN
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So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Yes.
Even this year in which Carmelo seems to be playing the best of his career LeBron has been better.
The MVP isn't about who's the best player, its about the best storyline.
Nah don't use that excuse
Because whenever there is a debate on who is better Lebron or Carmelo, what they always bring up?
Lebron's MVP trophies
Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron
Melo is no where near Lebron James in any way except he has more confidence in late game situations.
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Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron
Except he's not a better scorer.
LeBron scores more points, scores those points more efficiently (better eFG% and TS%). Besides scoring LeBron is a better defender, a better rebounder, and a far better passer.
All you're left with is the idea that Carmelo is a better "clutch" (however you choose to define it I'm guessing subjectively) player, and Carmelo is a slightly better three point shooter and free throw shooter.
Head to Head LeBron has also outperformed Carmelo (team record is essentially even 11-10):
http://bkref.com/tiny/TsgDN
I agree with you on the head to head. But you know those stats are for how many Lebron scored whether Carmelo guarded him or not, right? Someone posted what other point guards scored against Rondo to try to prove Rondo was a bad defender, and everyone said thats not a good way to judge that
But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
You can look in at stats all day. But we all know Carmelo is a better 4th quarter clutch scorer
And for Lebron's overrated defense, tell Jason Terry how good Lebron's defense was in the 2011 NBA Finals
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
Yeah ask Dwight Howard about his lack of "pretty" ways he scores in the paint, and see if his deficiencies helps him score in the clutch moments in the 4th quarter
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Yeah ask Dwight Howard about his lack of "pretty" ways he scores in the paint, and see if his deficiencies helps him score in the clutch moments in the 4th quarter
I've read this a couple times and I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
It all goes back to small ball. If we try to match up against Miamis line up with James at the 4 and Knicks line up with Melo at the 4, we get toasted. We need to point out their weaknesses and hit them in the paint and in the interior.
Yes Ny has Chandler but if they put Melo at the four we can expose that by playing a traditional lineup. We arent athletic enough with KG, and Pierce to out run the small ball lineups they have.
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
Yeah ask Dwight Howard about his lack of "pretty" ways he scores in the paint, and see if his deficiencies helps him score in the clutch moments in the 4th quarter
Dwight has an actual problem with the late fourth quarter situations because of his free throw shooting.
LeBron has no such problems over his career, and since you didn't actually answer my question I'll assume you prefer "skillset" to production.
If Carmelo is a better scorer why does he score less and score less efficiently?
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
It all goes back to small ball. If we try to match up against Miamis line up with James at the 4 and Knicks line up with Melo at the 4, we get toasted. We need to point out their weaknesses and hit them in the paint and in the interior.
Yes Ny has Chandler but if they put Melo at the four we can expose that by playing a traditional lineup. We arent athletic enough with KG, and Pierce to out run the small ball lineups they have.
They can't. There isn't enough big man talent on this team outside of KG to do that.
Boston's best chance is matching up and playing small.
If they had better big men around Garnett, playing big would be a good option ... but they don't.
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
Yeah ask Dwight Howard about his lack of "pretty" ways he scores in the paint, and see if his deficiencies helps him score in the clutch moments in the 4th quarter
Dwight has an actual problem with the late fourth quarter situations because of his free throw shooting.
LeBron has no such problems over his career, and since you didn't actually answer my question I'll assume you prefer "skillset" to production.
If Carmelo is a better scorer why does he score less and score less efficiently?
I did answer it Carmelo has better production. But better production doesn't equate a team producing wins, you know that right? Like Michael Redd scoring 57 points in a loss because his team sucks
Its obvious his efficiency is lower when you are basically the only consistent scorer putting up points for your team for so many years. Look at those "lowly" Cavs teams Lebron was on. He had a plethora of scoring options on his team. Maybe Iverson, JR Smith, and Billups were the only scorers Carmelo ever had before he came to the Knicks
Paul Pierce's efficiency improved when the Big 3 came, and why is that? Because he had alot more help with the scoring load
Free throw shooting has nothing to do with problems with late game production. Just ask Shaq. He said it himself, if you dominate with the "pretty skillset" as you say, free throw shooting doesn't matter as much as you think
Why in almost 10 years of playing, Lebron still doesn't have a consistent 17 ft jumpshoot as a perimeter player? Or even basic post moves in the paint? It's those skillset moves that get you out of trouble when the defense is tight and the game slows down (AKA the last 5 min of the 4th quarter)
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
It's not about frequency he's talking about versatility. If LeBron went out there and took 40 shots a night and averaged 50 like Wilt that wouldn't change his scoring ABILITY. Teammates and quality of looks and the other thousand variables during a 48 minute game are never going to allow you to compare any way other than subjectively. One way I personally think makes a lot of sense is to look at who's better at scoring when they have to, under pressure, when they're trying their hardest to put the ball through the net (aka in the clutch).
Carmelo isn't a better scorer because he's more makes a higher percentage of shot attempts, he's a better scorer because he's better from everywhere on the court. He takes and makes harder shots than LeBron. He pulls up for more jump shots to make the defense pay for cheating. Taking less efficient shots hurts your numbers but it doesn't say everything about your scoring ability.
Carmelo is harder to stop from scoring. LeBron is harder to stop period because you have to account for his passing. If you think that makes him a better "scorer" than Carmelo or Durant I just don't see it.
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
But they don't, so really there's no point in looking at who's playing great NOW. All that matters is who has their act together come playoff time.
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I feel better knowing the same guy who thinks Chris Paul is the be all end all best point guard and Rondo is nowhere even close by any measure thinks carmelo Anthony is better than lebron James and one potential mvp (after the knicks won without him no less) would prove it. Nothing points to him winning that award over lebron anyways. Come on man. Lebron is a tier above Carmelo Anthony and always has been but yes the knocks are serious as they proved without carmelo last night.
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They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
It all goes back to small ball. If we try to match up against Miamis line up with James at the 4 and Knicks line up with Melo at the 4, we get toasted. We need to point out their weaknesses and hit them in the paint and in the interior.
Yes Ny has Chandler but if they put Melo at the four we can expose that by playing a traditional lineup. We arent athletic enough with KG, and Pierce to out run the small ball lineups they have.
They can't. There isn't enough big man talent on this team outside of KG to do that.
Boston's best chance is matching up and playing small.
If they had better big men around Garnett, playing big would be a good option ... but they don't.
Right, which is why we need to make a trade to do so.
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I don't think any team that relies too much on the three is legitimate. If they can't hit threes they are not winning, and in the playoffs that happens, both because slumps will happen especially on the road and the defense will step up.
They took 41 threes against the Bobcats and won by 2. I do not think that is acceptable shot selection.
They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
Oh wow 20 whole games!?!
Are you a Celtics fan? Did you see last year?
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I don't think any team that relies too much on the three is legitimate. If they can't hit threes they are not winning, and in the playoffs that happens, both because slumps will happen especially on the road and the defense will step up.
They took 41 threes against the Bobcats and won by 2.
They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?
Yeah New York doesn't seem bad for the C's if the C's get things together.
Carmelo at the 4 is a problem, but Chandler doesn't demand attention from KG so he can roam. Meanwhile Terry can be hid on Jason Kid as much as we'd like and they're not a team that will pile up offensive boards on the C's.
We are nearly twenty games in and lets face it, we are not getting by New York or Miami. If the playoffs started today we would play Miami in the first round. Early "Gone Fishin'" for the Celtics.
Oh wow 20 whole games!?!
Are you a Celtics fan? Did you see last year?
Better yet, did he see that 2009-2010 season?
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
Yeah ask Dwight Howard about his lack of "pretty" ways he scores in the paint, and see if his deficiencies helps him score in the clutch moments in the 4th quarter
Dwight has an actual problem with the late fourth quarter situations because of his free throw shooting.
LeBron has no such problems over his career, and since you didn't actually answer my question I'll assume you prefer "skillset" to production.
If Carmelo is a better scorer why does he score less and score less efficiently?
I did answer it Carmelo has better production. But better production doesn't equate a team producing wins, you know that right? Like Michael Redd scoring 57 points in a loss because his team sucks
Its obvious his efficiency is lower when you are basically the only consistent scorer putting up points for your team for so many years. Look at those "lowly" Cavs teams Lebron was on. He had a plethora of scoring options on his team. Maybe Iverson, JR Smith, and Billups were the only scorers Carmelo ever had before he came to the Knicks
Paul Pierce's efficiency improved when the Big 3 came, and why is that? Because he had alot more help with the scoring load
Free throw shooting has nothing to do with problems with late game production. Just ask Shaq. He said it himself, if you dominate with the "pretty skillset" as you say, free throw shooting doesn't matter as much as you think
Why in almost 10 years of playing, Lebron still doesn't have a consistent 17 ft jumpshoot as a perimeter player? Or even basic post moves in the paint? It's those skillset moves that get you out of trouble when the defense is tight and the game slows down (AKA the last 5 min of the 4th quarter)
LeBron does have a pretty good jumper now, and he's a solid 3 point shooter as well.
He shot a higher percentage on his jump shots than Carmelo Anthony last year.
While his post moves aren't pretty they're also rather effective when he goes to them.
In clutch situations LeBron has consistently produced more than Anthony over his career, both in points and based on creating points for others.
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
It's not about frequency he's talking about versatility. If LeBron went out there and took 40 shots a night and averaged 50 like Wilt that wouldn't change his scoring ABILITY. Teammates and quality of looks and the other thousand variables during a 48 minute game are never going to allow you to compare any way other than subjectively. One way I personally think makes a lot of sense is to look at who's better at scoring when they have to, under pressure, when they're trying their hardest to put the ball through the net (aka in the clutch).
Carmelo isn't a better scorer because he's more makes a higher percentage of shot attempts, he's a better scorer because he's better from everywhere on the court. He takes and makes harder shots than LeBron. He pulls up for more jump shots to make the defense pay for cheating. Taking less efficient shots hurts your numbers but it doesn't say everything about your scoring ability.
Carmelo is harder to stop from scoring. LeBron is harder to stop period because you have to account for his passing. If you think that makes him a better "scorer" than Carmelo or Durant I just don't see it.
LeBron is just as versatile as Melo though, but he makes better decisions and is a better passer.
Melo is a better pure shooter, but LeBron is no longer a bad shooter and he doesn't force nearly as many bad shots. That sort of decision making is a skill and shouldn't be ignored when you're looking at who's a better scorer.
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And mitch ritchmond was better than Michael Jordan 8)
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But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better
Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron
Do you care about how many pretty ways Carmelo can score more than how often he does it in the game (and gets points for his team)?
Is Big Al a better scorer than Shaq/Howard? He certainly has a better 18 foot jumpshot, "refined post game", and free throw shooting on both of them.
Yeah ask Dwight Howard about his lack of "pretty" ways he scores in the paint, and see if his deficiencies helps him score in the clutch moments in the 4th quarter
Dwight has an actual problem with the late fourth quarter situations because of his free throw shooting.
LeBron has no such problems over his career, and since you didn't actually answer my question I'll assume you prefer "skillset" to production.
If Carmelo is a better scorer why does he score less and score less efficiently?
I did answer it Carmelo has better production. But better production doesn't equate a team producing wins, you know that right? Like Michael Redd scoring 57 points in a loss because his team sucks
Its obvious his efficiency is lower when you are basically the only consistent scorer putting up points for your team for so many years. Look at those "lowly" Cavs teams Lebron was on. He had a plethora of scoring options on his team. Maybe Iverson, JR Smith, and Billups were the only scorers Carmelo ever had before he came to the Knicks
Paul Pierce's efficiency improved when the Big 3 came, and why is that? Because he had alot more help with the scoring load
Free throw shooting has nothing to do with problems with late game production. Just ask Shaq. He said it himself, if you dominate with the "pretty skillset" as you say, free throw shooting doesn't matter as much as you think
Why in almost 10 years of playing, Lebron still doesn't have a consistent 17 ft jumpshoot as a perimeter player? Or even basic post moves in the paint? It's those skillset moves that get you out of trouble when the defense is tight and the game slows down (AKA the last 5 min of the 4th quarter)
LeBron does have a pretty good jumper now, and he's a solid 3 point shooter as well.
He shot a higher percentage on his jump shots than Carmelo Anthony last year.
While his post moves aren't pretty they're also rather effective when he goes to them.
In clutch situations LeBron has consistently produced more than Anthony over his career, both in points and based on creating points for others.
Really...Really?
There is no way Lebron is on the same level clutch-wise as Carmelo. Stats would never tell the whole story
BJ Armstrong can have the same shooting percentage from the 3 point line or 17 feet just like Michael Jordan, but you would never see anyone saying BJ is the better scorer
And creating a shot for someone else's clutch shots doesn't make a player clutch. Ibaka could set up Durant for a clutch game winner, it doesn't make Ibaka clutch
Lebron barely makes clutch shots in the the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Carmelo on the other hand can make a clutch shot anywhere on the court, at any time of the season