#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[knuckleballer]

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

Well, the NFL claimed they didn't want the phone, just a curated list of texts about ball preparation. Which Brady refused to provide. So this is still confusing, given that Brady hasn't disputed this claim.

Well there you have it....there's your smoking gun....I mean they didn't even want the texts. They just wanted a list OF texts. Because lists are very helpful in these kinds of investigations.

So thaaaattt's why they release something yesterday with the heading "Brady destroyed phone"

The NFL has found as easy target. Or at least they thought so.

Yup, this phone nonsense is nothing but a red herring because the NFL's evidence is weak at best.  We are all suckers for even discussing the phone.

[kozlodoev]

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

Well, the NFL claimed they didn't want the phone, just a curated list of texts about ball preparation. Which Brady refused to provide. So this is still confusing, given that Brady hasn't disputed this claim.

Well there you have it....there's your smoking gun....I mean they didn't even want the texts. They just wanted a list OF texts. Because lists are very helpful in these kinds of investigations.

So thaaaattt's why they release something yesterday with the heading "Brady destroyed phone"

The NFL has found as easy target. Or at least they thought so.

When I said "list of texts" I meant a compilation including the actual text contents.

[D.o.s.]

FWIW, Lester Munson (who is great, even as an ESPN employee) wrote a Q&A about the possibility of a lawsuit. :

Q: The Patriots' rebuttal Thursday was aggressive and detailed. What was the purpose of this attack on Goodell and the investigation?

A: It is possible the Patriots' rebuttal will become the foundation for a lawsuit against Goodell and the league. But it is more likely that the purpose of the rebuttal was a form of damage control. It offers material for the Patriots' true-believer fans to use as they continue to support their beloved team.

It might diminish the effect of the investigation's assault upon the team's reputation in its market. But it's highly unlikely owner Bob Kraft will file any litigation against the NFL. If he filed a lawsuit, he would join the late Al Davis and Donald Sterling as the only sports team owners to sue their fellow owners. Kraft does not want to be in any group that includes Davis and Sterling.

Q: What advantages, if any, does Brady enjoy in this appeal?

A: In reality, just the notion that it cannot get any worse for him.

Whether the arbitrator is Goodell, Henderson or an independent person, the arbitrator cannot increase the suspension. If the arbitrator looks at all the evidence and concludes that Brady was guilty of a form of cheating that affected the integrity of the competition in the most successful sports enterprise in America, the arbitrator could not suspend Brady for more than four games. If the arbitrator had the power to actually increase a penalty, well, Brady and the NFLPA might not have filed an appeal.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

He also thinks there's no way the NFLPA has a chance in court. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he's way smarter than I am, so.

You lost me at "Lester Munson, (who is great"...

I am glad your nuanced opinion was able to convince me otherwise.

It has been my experience that people who don't like Lester Munson generally dislike his presentation aesthetically (understandable) or don't understand what he is saying.

[PhoSita]

Looking into the law, my initial impression is that Brady's appeal hinges on proving one or both of the following:

1) Goodell is an evidently partial arbitrator.  That is to say, Goodell is demonstrably biased.

2) Brady's punishment is based upon an awareness of misconduct by other members of his organization, not actions that Brady himself took to circumvent the rules.  Brady's team must argue that this type of punishment is contrary to the essence or plain language of the CBA. 

Has a player ever been punished by the NFL for the conduct of other members of his organization?  Looking to the Saints' situation might be relevant here.

The NFL will argue that Brady's punishment is also based upon his lack of cooperation, and indeed his overt hindrance of the NFL's investigation.  Brady's team must point to the lack of any precedent for punishing players with suspension for failure to cooperate with the league.

[Eja117]

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

Well, the NFL claimed they didn't want the phone, just a curated list of texts about ball preparation. Which Brady refused to provide. So this is still confusing, given that Brady hasn't disputed this claim.

Well there you have it....there's your smoking gun....I mean they didn't even want the texts. They just wanted a list OF texts. Because lists are very helpful in these kinds of investigations.

So thaaaattt's why they release something yesterday with the heading "Brady destroyed phone"

The NFL has found as easy target. Or at least they thought so.

Yup, this phone nonsense is nothing but a red herring because the NFL's evidence is weak at best.  We are all suckers for even discussing the phone.

Exactly. Could you imagine if the justice system worked like this. "Sir there is no physical, photographic, or video evidence that he stole a car, however he did destroy his own phone, so he must be guilty. 10 years should be appropriate."

[knuckleballer]

Exactly. And you don't give a leaky organization your phone

Well, the NFL claimed they didn't want the phone, just a curated list of texts about ball preparation. Which Brady refused to provide. So this is still confusing, given that Brady hasn't disputed this claim.

Well there you have it....there's your smoking gun....I mean they didn't even want the texts. They just wanted a list OF texts. Because lists are very helpful in these kinds of investigations.

So thaaaattt's why they release something yesterday with the heading "Brady destroyed phone"

The NFL has found as easy target. Or at least they thought so.

Yup, this phone nonsense is nothing but a red herring because the NFL's evidence is weak at best.  We are all suckers for even discussing the phone.

Exactly. Could you imagine if the justice system worked like this. "Sir there is no physical, photographic, or video evidence that he stole a car, however he did destroy his own phone, so he must be guilty. 10 years should be appropriate."

Not only do they not have physical, photographic, or video evidence that he stole a car, they don't even have evidence that a car was even stolen. 

[D.o.s.]

Good thing the NFL doesn't hold itself to that standard, then.

[Eja117]

Good thing the NFL doesn't hold itself to that standard, then.

On the other hand when there's actual video of an actual crime.....2 games.

[footey]

FWIW, Lester Munson (who is great, even as an ESPN employee) wrote a Q&A about the possibility of a lawsuit. :

Q: The Patriots' rebuttal Thursday was aggressive and detailed. What was the purpose of this attack on Goodell and the investigation?

A: It is possible the Patriots' rebuttal will become the foundation for a lawsuit against Goodell and the league. But it is more likely that the purpose of the rebuttal was a form of damage control. It offers material for the Patriots' true-believer fans to use as they continue to support their beloved team.

It might diminish the effect of the investigation's assault upon the team's reputation in its market. But it's highly unlikely owner Bob Kraft will file any litigation against the NFL. If he filed a lawsuit, he would join the late Al Davis and Donald Sterling as the only sports team owners to sue their fellow owners. Kraft does not want to be in any group that includes Davis and Sterling.

Q: What advantages, if any, does Brady enjoy in this appeal?

A: In reality, just the notion that it cannot get any worse for him.

Whether the arbitrator is Goodell, Henderson or an independent person, the arbitrator cannot increase the suspension. If the arbitrator looks at all the evidence and concludes that Brady was guilty of a form of cheating that affected the integrity of the competition in the most successful sports enterprise in America, the arbitrator could not suspend Brady for more than four games. If the arbitrator had the power to actually increase a penalty, well, Brady and the NFLPA might not have filed an appeal.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

He also thinks there's no way the NFLPA has a chance in court. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he's way smarter than I am, so.

You lost me at "Lester Munson, (who is great"...

I am glad your nuanced opinion was able to convince me otherwise.

It has been my experience that people who don't like Lester Munson generally dislike his presentation aesthetically (understandable) or don't understand what he is saying.

a somewhat binary philosophy. I find issues a little more complicated sometimes, including opinions on people like Munson. 

[D.o.s.]

Unfortunate for me then that your feelings doesn't extend to an impulse to elaborate.
¯\_(^,^)_/¯

[Jon]

A few thoughts:

1) the Lester Munson analysis seems totally biased. In other parts of the article, he was fawning over Goodell's 20 page release talking about how brilliant it is.

2) I am very happy to see Kraft renew the battle. He should have torn apart Goodell earlier and hopefully this will spell the end of Goodell once and for all. Because this isn't simply a matter of it being tough to manage a pro sport and all that comes with it. Adam Silver is doing an extraordinary job with the NBA, which has it it's own share of issues that he's actually handled effectively.

3) This whole thing is so silly. Even if Brady is as guilty as anyone can imagine, he's basically guilty of the NFL equivalent of going 75 in a 55. Lots of people do it and yes, sometimes people get caught. Only this time, the police officer thinks he might have been using a faulty radar gun and, in fact, can't actually remember which gun he used or even if he got the right car. And come to think of it, there may not actually have been any speed limit signs on the highway.

Clearly to any rational person, this case gets tossed. Yes the person probably was speeding, but given how botched the whole case is, clearly the person would get off with no penalty. Only this time, instead of getting a ticket, the state revokes the man's license for 4 months.

[PhoSita]

Even if Brady is as guilty as anyone can imagine, he's basically guilty of the NFL equivalent of going 75 in a 55. Lots of people do it and yes, sometimes people get caught. Only this time, the police officer thinks he might have been using a faulty radar gun and, in fact, can't actually remember which gun he used or even if he got the right car. And come to think of it, there may not actually have been any speed limit signs on the highway.

The basis of the punishment that the NFL handed down is actually closer to putting the guy in the passenger seat of the car in jail because the driver was speeding, then justifying that punishment by pointing to circumstantial evidence that suggests the passenger was probably aware that the driver was speeding and may have even encouraged him to do so.

[Evantime34]

It is pretty clear to me that the NFL really wants to catch the Patriots at something.

The initially set up a sting operation to catch the Patriots doing something that is not important enough for the actual refs to pay a ton of attention to.

Then when they can't completely prove that wrongdoing was done they spend millions upon millions of dollars to investigate.

Finally at the appeal the commissioner does everything he can to make sure Brady doesn't get to fairly appeal his verdict.

Why did they go through all this trouble, is the question that I have. I can only think of 3 reasons they would do this.
1. The NFL suspected the Patriots were doing something much worse than deflating footballs but could not obtain evidence. The NFL kept digging and kept digging and couldn't back down after all the money and time they sunk into it.
2. Roger Goodell had taken such a media hit that he wanted to catch the most disliked team cheating so that he could distance himself from the idea that he is a push over after the Rice and Bounty gate appeals.
3. The Patriots didn't do anything but their attitude of refusing to aid in the investigation was seen as an attack on Goodell's power.

[BballTim]

Replaced isn't more accurate. He doesn't have the old phone to give them, because it (and the sim card) were (apparently) deliberately destroyed. If Brady had the phone destroyed and had confirmed with the carrier that they couldn't retrieve the texts, how was he going to assist the NFL in gathering those texts? A seance?

You realize that when you send a text, it goes to another device right?

It just so happens that Brady provided the league with a complete list of the people he texted (in addition to the phone company printouts). However, the NFL deemed it "impractical" to follow up with those people. Yes, the same league that apparently thought it very practical to spend a ton of time an money on an external investigation of an equipment violation.

Cue in the applause.

  Sure, it goes to another device. Do you realize that the other person may have deleted the text? And obviously it's impractical to follow up on each of the thousands of texts to see if there was any relevant information, and probably well beyond the reach of the investigation. That's the point of doing what he did. He wasn't trying to cooperate with the investigation, he was trying to thwart it and still claim that he was cooperating.

[BballTim]

The NFL will argue that Brady's punishment is also based upon his lack of cooperation, and indeed his overt hindrance of the NFL's investigation.  Brady's team must point to the lack of any precedent for punishing players with suspension for failure to cooperate with the league.

  I think part of the punishment is the lack of cooperation, part of it is because, while they can't prove it, they don't think he's been overly honest in what he has said and part of it is the deflating of the footballs. His behavior (or more accurately their opinion of his behavior) during the investigation probably turned a slap on the wrist into a trip to the woodshed.