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Around the NBA / Re: Who you take at center?

« Last post by Vermont Green on Today at 02:39:04 PM »

Barkley and Shaq were getting into this a little in the pregame last night. Kenny Smith (I think) asked Shaq if he could cover Jokic. Shaq said no but still seemed to think that the older guys were better.

I don't have a good answer for this. The differences in the eras affect all players/positions but none more than the Center position. Low post guys like Wilt and Kareem would still have to be low post players. The 3 point line would make it harder to double team them, but no way they step out and hit shots.

That is the thing with Jokic. I think he could cover most of these guys as well as anyone (obviously no one could really cover Wilt or Kareem), but could these guys cover Jokic all the way out the the 3-point line? Centers today need to switch-cover on the pick and roll or you get killed with 3s. Shaq admitted he would not be able to do that, he would just drop cover.

Jokic is only 29. He is going to have a very good 8-10 year stretch before he is done. MVPs, at least 1 title. I am not sure there is a better Center for today's game.

Game Threads / Re: Heat (0-0) at Celtics (0-0) Round 1 Game #1 4/21/24

« Last post by celticinorlando on Today at 02:37:22 PM »

Spo out there begging today for the refs to let them play physical.

Patriots / Football / Re: 2024 NFL Draft

« Last post by Moranis on Today at 02:24:20 PM »

Quote from: Vermont Green on Today at 02:02:30 PM

Trubisky went ahead of Mahomes and Watson in 2017, with DeShone Kizer going in the second round. Mayfield and Darnold went ahead of Josh Allen in 2018 (Josh Rosen was first round pick that year too). Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins in the first round in 2019. 2020 was a good year (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love) but then 2021 was not (Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, Trey Lance, Mac Jones, Justin Fields). Kenny Pickett in 2022. 2023 may turn out to be a good draft (Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson)

That is 23 first round QBs since 2017. How many of them are NFL starter level players, 11 or 12? So about a 50-50 hit rate. That is a lot of uncertainty for a #3 pick. Yes, you have to take your shot at a QB if you get a high pick. But to think that you know that Daniels or Williams is absolutely going to be better than Maye or McCarthy is simply fool's gold. The Pats will take a QB, I don't doubt that or second guess that. But history shows that it is very hard to predict which QBs are going to be good.

I'm not sure that is much different than other positions and again QB's are pretty consistently overdrafted. That is the real issue. Teams reach and take them higher than they should.

Around the NBA / Re: Who you take at center?

« Last post by gift on Today at 02:20:43 PM »

i think Sabonis deserves a mention and Jokic is a worthy answer. Hakeem is a pretty good starting point, especially for the way today's game is. if we could spend 15 years training a player for this era i might pick David Robinson, though. or maybe even KG, who could handle center better today than for most of his career and could maybe guard the perimeter better than any of the others, Olajuwon and Robinson included.

The Draft / Re: 2024 Draft

« Last post by perks-a-beast on Today at 02:09:57 PM »

Quote from: jambr380 on Today at 01:44:43 PM

I�m just happy that the GSW pick is at #14 (barring epic lottery luck). I was pushing for them to make the playoffs to make that pick even lower, but at least Portland will have the worst lottery pick from the Jrue trade

Me too. It looks like the pool of talent really falls off a cliff after #12, so I�m fine with it.

I do, however, like some of the players that�ll be within the Celtics range with pick 30. Daron Holmes, Jaylon Tyson, and Trey Alexander are guys I find intriguing.

Patriots / Football / Re: 2024 NFL Draft

« Last post by Roy H. on Today at 02:09:48 PM »

Quote from: Celtics2021 on Today at 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: libermaniac on Today at 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: Roy H. on Today at 06:58:25 AM
Quote from: Birdman on Today at 06:45:23 AM
How many these QBs will flop? Happen every year, teams goes crazy on getting a QB then 3-4 years later they are release or traded..I really don�t see any of these QBs being stars but never know

Probability says some will flop, but then you look at a draft like 2020 where all four first round QBs have been successful. (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love).
Give. The crapshoot nature of it all, I certainly wouldn�t trade up if I were the Vikings or Giants or Broncos. Is JJ McCarthy really that much better of a prospect than Bo Nix or Michael Penix Jr to justify throwing several extra picks into the trade?

Yes, he�s a far superior prospect. I think the Pats should take him at 3, let him marinate as the backup for a season (or at least until they�re eliminated from the playoffs or injuries press him into service) and then reap the rewards beginning in 2025. He will be an elite NFL QB if he�s given a year to develop (i.e. not tossed behind a porous line with stone-handed receivers like he would be this year on the Pats).

I thought you were crazy projecting McCarthy in the top-6, but now that seems to be the consensus. I'm seeing a lot of prognosticators sending him to the Giants.

Patriots / Football / Re: 2024 NFL Draft

« Last post by Vermont Green on Today at 02:02:30 PM »

Trubisky went ahead of Mahomes and Watson in 2017, with DeShone Kizer going in the second round. Mayfield and Darnold went ahead of Josh Allen in 2018 (Josh Rosen was first round pick that year too). Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins in the first round in 2019. 2020 was a good year (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love) but then 2021 was not (Trevor Lawrence, Zack Wilson, Trey Lance, Mac Jones, Justin Fields). Kenny Pickett in 2022. 2023 may turn out to be a good draft (Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson)

That is 23 first round QBs since 2017. How many of them are NFL starter level players, 11 or 12? So about a 50-50 hit rate. That is a lot of uncertainty for a #3 pick. Yes, you have to take your shot at a QB if you get a high pick. But to think that you know that Daniels or Williams is absolutely going to be better than Maye or McCarthy is simply fool's gold. The Pats will take a QB, I don't doubt that or second guess that. But history shows that it is very hard to predict which QBs are going to be good.

Patriots / Football / Re: 2024 NFL Draft

« Last post by Celtics2021 on Today at 01:59:31 PM »

Quote from: libermaniac on Today at 12:50:24 PM

Quote from: Roy H. on Today at 06:58:25 AM
Quote from: Birdman on Today at 06:45:23 AM
How many these QBs will flop? Happen every year, teams goes crazy on getting a QB then 3-4 years later they are release or traded..I really don�t see any of these QBs being stars but never know

Probability says some will flop, but then you look at a draft like 2020 where all four first round QBs have been successful. (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love).
Give. The crapshoot nature of it all, I certainly wouldn�t trade up if I were the Vikings or Giants or Broncos. Is JJ McCarthy really that much better of a prospect than Bo Nix or Michael Penix Jr to justify throwing several extra picks into the trade?

Yes, he�s a far superior prospect. I think the Pats should take him at 3, let him marinate as the backup for a season (or at least until they�re eliminated from the playoffs or injuries press him into service) and then reap the rewards beginning in 2025. He will be an elite NFL QB if he�s given a year to develop (i.e. not tossed behind a porous line with stone-handed receivers like he would be this year on the Pats).

Patriots / Football / Re: 2024 NFL Draft

« Last post by Moranis on Today at 01:53:57 PM »

Quote from: Roy H. on Today at 06:58:25 AM

Quote from: Birdman on Today at 06:45:23 AM
How many these QBs will flop? Happen every year, teams goes crazy on getting a QB then 3-4 years later they are release or traded..I really don�t see any of these QBs being stars but never know

Probability says some will flop, but then you look at a draft like 2020 where all four first round QBs have been successful. (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love)

the problem with QB is NFL teams take them well before they should because they are so important. So they overdraft them and put unrealistic expectations on them by doing so. The first 3 picks will be a QB, but Williams is the only one rated as a top 4 player in this draft, ad an example.