Poll

Do you think Kahwi Leonard comes to Boston?

Yes
14 (15.9%)
No
74 (84.1%)

Total Members Voted: 88

Voting closed: June 29, 2018, 11:30:27 PM

Author Topic: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)  (Read 119306 times)

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Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #390 on: June 18, 2018, 08:24:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Yeah my opening offer would be Rozier, Morris, Smart (if he likes the spurs), filler, and all of the picks. If we can get Kawhi without parting with a major asset, it’s worth the risk of losing him.

I think the best gauge for a trade is Carmelo from the Nuggets to the Knicks. He was also 27 when he was traded to the Knicks on the last year of his deal and Denver got Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Not sure, that trade basically ruined the Knicks chances of building a contender with Carmelo, teams since have avoided giving up that many pieces in trades.

Really we should be looking at what Kyrie went for or what Deron Williams went for. George and Butler went for pennies on the dollar and I don't think we see that repeated with Kawhi.

Williams went for Favors, Devon Harris and 2 first round picks, one of which was #3
Kyrie went for IT, Crowder, zizic and a nets pick (Nets had just finished with the worst record)

Phillys equivalent of the Williams trade would be Fultz + Covington + this years number 10 and a future pick, they'd likely have to add a bit more as the picks are worse and Fultz isn't as good as Favors was, plus Kawhi is a better player than Williams!

Equivalent to the Kyrie trade would be Saric, Covington, Luwawu, + a future high lottery pick that they don't currently have...

If I'm the Spurs I probably don't like either deal and I'd look elsewhere!

Let’s say Fultz, Covington, and the 10th pick is the starting point for the 76rs.  Is that really any better than say S&T of Smart, Morris and either the Kings pick or the Grizzlies pick? I think it’s close but we can easily sweeten our offer.  If we can hold onto Brown that would be great. Ha

Before we get to value, we need to remember the newish rule on sign and trades. The counting salary in a trade is half the salary for a s&t player. Kawhi earns roughly $19m, to match we would need about $15.5m. Morris is $5m, leaving $10.5m to match. That means the Spurs would need to be happy signing Smart to a $21m per year contract! I'm sure he'd be happy at least  ;D

In order for salaries to work, and accounting for roster space, offers from the Cs either include Irving / Hayward or Brown, Morris and a s&t for Smart. I just don't see us doing that.

On value I think they are in the same ball park but what do the Spurs want? I think there are better deals out there than the 76ers offer unless they choose to include Simmons which is unlikely.

Washington could offer a package around Beal if the Spurs wish to remain competitive. New York can offer something decent as well. Cleveland is a dark horse if they can get a 3rd team involved, although unlikely. Also how about a Toronto package based around DeRozan? We all assume the Spurs would rebuild but that's not in their history.

Basically there are better youth packages than we can give without Brown and better compete now packages as well. I don't see us giving Brown for Kawhi so ultimately I think he ends up elsewhere

Um, this rule has been around since at least the 1999 CBA, when it applied to players who were traded within 2 years of signing a new contract using Bird or Early Bird rights.  In the 2005 CBA it was limited to trades within the first 6 months of a contract, and since the 2011 CBA it only applies to sign-and-trades.  It’s probably older than some posters here.  It’s a month older than Luka Doncic!
Also, isn't it that the value of the sign and trade is valued at half the money going out but full value coming in. Example, if Smart signs a sign and trade for $14 million a year it counts as $7 million of going out salary but the Celtics still need to count it as needing to get $14 million in incoming salary.

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #391 on: June 18, 2018, 08:26:47 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Yeah my opening offer would be Rozier, Morris, Smart (if he likes the spurs), filler, and all of the picks. If we can get Kawhi without parting with a major asset, it’s worth the risk of losing him.

I think the best gauge for a trade is Carmelo from the Nuggets to the Knicks. He was also 27 when he was traded to the Knicks on the last year of his deal and Denver got Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Not sure, that trade basically ruined the Knicks chances of building a contender with Carmelo, teams since have avoided giving up that many pieces in trades.

Really we should be looking at what Kyrie went for or what Deron Williams went for. George and Butler went for pennies on the dollar and I don't think we see that repeated with Kawhi.

Williams went for Favors, Devon Harris and 2 first round picks, one of which was #3
Kyrie went for IT, Crowder, zizic and a nets pick (Nets had just finished with the worst record)

Phillys equivalent of the Williams trade would be Fultz + Covington + this years number 10 and a future pick, they'd likely have to add a bit more as the picks are worse and Fultz isn't as good as Favors was, plus Kawhi is a better player than Williams!

Equivalent to the Kyrie trade would be Saric, Covington, Luwawu, + a future high lottery pick that they don't currently have...

If I'm the Spurs I probably don't like either deal and I'd look elsewhere!

Let’s say Fultz, Covington, and the 10th pick is the starting point for the 76rs.  Is that really any better than say S&T of Smart, Morris and either the Kings pick or the Grizzlies pick? I think it’s close but we can easily sweeten our offer.  If we can hold onto Brown that would be great. Ha

Before we get to value, we need to remember the newish rule on sign and trades. The counting salary in a trade is half the salary for a s&t player. Kawhi earns roughly $19m, to match we would need about $15.5m. Morris is $5m, leaving $10.5m to match. That means the Spurs would need to be happy signing Smart to a $21m per year contract! I'm sure he'd be happy at least  ;D

In order for salaries to work, and accounting for roster space, offers from the Cs either include Irving / Hayward or Brown, Morris and a s&t for Smart. I just don't see us doing that.

On value I think they are in the same ball park but what do the Spurs want? I think there are better deals out there than the 76ers offer unless they choose to include Simmons which is unlikely.

Washington could offer a package around Beal if the Spurs wish to remain competitive. New York can offer something decent as well. Cleveland is a dark horse if they can get a 3rd team involved, although unlikely. Also how about a Toronto package based around DeRozan? We all assume the Spurs would rebuild but that's not in their history.

Basically there are better youth packages than we can give without Brown and better compete now packages as well. I don't see us giving Brown for Kawhi so ultimately I think he ends up elsewhere

Um, this rule has been around since at least the 1999 CBA, when it applied to players who were traded within 2 years of signing a new contract using Bird or Early Bird rights.  In the 2005 CBA it was limited to trades within the first 6 months of a contract, and since the 2011 CBA it only applies to sign-and-trades.  It’s probably older than some posters here.  It’s a month older than Luka Doncic!
Also, isn't it that the value of the sign and trade is valued at half the money going out but full value coming in. Example, if Smart signs a sign and trade for $14 million a year it counts as $7 million of going out salary but the Celtics still need to count it as needing to get $14 million in incoming salary.

Yes, that’s correct.  I didn’t read what Sundance wrote, other than he called it newish.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #392 on: June 18, 2018, 08:29:27 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I think Kawhi wants to be in LA. Clippers or Lakers. He's won. He'll get paid.

I'm not sure teams should be trading valuable assets for a Kawhi rental. Is he ready to play 80% of the games as a mercenary in Toronto or Milwaukee or wherever?

I don't think that SA will trade him to LAL. He may be taking the scenic route to the Lakers like Paul George.

I think Kawhi for Fultz + Covington, etc makes sense.

It's not GM Phil Jackson it is Popovich. Fultz & Covington?  ??? ::) :P :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #393 on: June 18, 2018, 08:32:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Yeah my opening offer would be Rozier, Morris, Smart (if he likes the spurs), filler, and all of the picks. If we can get Kawhi without parting with a major asset, it’s worth the risk of losing him.

I think the best gauge for a trade is Carmelo from the Nuggets to the Knicks. He was also 27 when he was traded to the Knicks on the last year of his deal and Denver got Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Not sure, that trade basically ruined the Knicks chances of building a contender with Carmelo, teams since have avoided giving up that many pieces in trades.

Really we should be looking at what Kyrie went for or what Deron Williams went for. George and Butler went for pennies on the dollar and I don't think we see that repeated with Kawhi.

Williams went for Favors, Devon Harris and 2 first round picks, one of which was #3
Kyrie went for IT, Crowder, zizic and a nets pick (Nets had just finished with the worst record)

Phillys equivalent of the Williams trade would be Fultz + Covington + this years number 10 and a future pick, they'd likely have to add a bit more as the picks are worse and Fultz isn't as good as Favors was, plus Kawhi is a better player than Williams!

Equivalent to the Kyrie trade would be Saric, Covington, Luwawu, + a future high lottery pick that they don't currently have...

If I'm the Spurs I probably don't like either deal and I'd look elsewhere!

Let’s say Fultz, Covington, and the 10th pick is the starting point for the 76rs.  Is that really any better than say S&T of Smart, Morris and either the Kings pick or the Grizzlies pick? I think it’s close but we can easily sweeten our offer.  If we can hold onto Brown that would be great. Ha

Before we get to value, we need to remember the newish rule on sign and trades. The counting salary in a trade is half the salary for a s&t player. Kawhi earns roughly $19m, to match we would need about $15.5m. Morris is $5m, leaving $10.5m to match. That means the Spurs would need to be happy signing Smart to a $21m per year contract! I'm sure he'd be happy at least  ;D

In order for salaries to work, and accounting for roster space, offers from the Cs either include Irving / Hayward or Brown, Morris and a s&t for Smart. I just don't see us doing that.

On value I think they are in the same ball park but what do the Spurs want? I think there are better deals out there than the 76ers offer unless they choose to include Simmons which is unlikely.

Washington could offer a package around Beal if the Spurs wish to remain competitive. New York can offer something decent as well. Cleveland is a dark horse if they can get a 3rd team involved, although unlikely. Also how about a Toronto package based around DeRozan? We all assume the Spurs would rebuild but that's not in their history.

Basically there are better youth packages than we can give without Brown and better compete now packages as well. I don't see us giving Brown for Kawhi so ultimately I think he ends up elsewhere

Um, this rule has been around since at least the 1999 CBA, when it applied to players who were traded within 2 years of signing a new contract using Bird or Early Bird rights.  In the 2005 CBA it was limited to trades within the first 6 months of a contract, and since the 2011 CBA it only applies to sign-and-trades.  It’s probably older than some posters here.  It’s a month older than Luka Doncic!
Also, isn't it that the value of the sign and trade is valued at half the money going out but full value coming in. Example, if Smart signs a sign and trade for $14 million a year it counts as $7 million of going out salary but the Celtics still need to count it as needing to get $14 million in incoming salary.

Yes, that’s correct.  I didn’t read what Sundance wrote, other than he called it newish.
TP. Thanks. I thought so. I see a lot of people doing sign and trade ideas with Smart and are getting this wrong when figuring out matching salaries.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #394 on: June 18, 2018, 08:35:20 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #395 on: June 18, 2018, 08:37:25 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.

Why would Phoenix do that for a 1-year rental. It's GM suicide.


Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #396 on: June 18, 2018, 08:50:48 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.

Why would Phoenix do that for a 1-year rental. It's GM suicide.

Yeah, someone tell me why any team would give up a top pick/promising young player for a guy that's headed to LA. Makes no sense to me.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #397 on: June 18, 2018, 08:57:36 PM »

Offline jambr380

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.

Why would Phoenix do that for a 1-year rental. It's GM suicide.

Yeah, someone tell me why any team would give up a top pick/promising young player for a guy that's headed to LA. Makes no sense to me.

That obviously kills a Fultz/Covington package. PHX is relatively close to LA so maybe they could convince Kawhi to stay. It would allow him to be in the spotlight when he wants, but not be immersed in it. Personally, I would LOVE it if Kawhi went to PHX!

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #398 on: June 18, 2018, 09:04:36 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.

Why would Phoenix do that for a 1-year rental. It's GM suicide.

Yeah, someone tell me why any team would give up a top pick/promising young player for a guy that's headed to LA. Makes no sense to me.

That obviously kills a Fultz/Covington package. PHX is relatively close to LA so maybe they could convince Kawhi to stay. It would allow him to be in the spotlight when he wants, but not be immersed in it. Personally, I would LOVE it if Kawhi went to PHX!

Convincing someone to stay that wants to play at home.... I don't know about that. Seems like a risky strategy.

If Ryan McDonough thinks that Ayton has a high motor, I think he's picking the big man.

If Kawhi really is a top 5 player (I concede he's def top 10 when healthy), he can basically pick which team he wants to play for. I don't think there's going to be much room for convincing.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #399 on: June 18, 2018, 09:26:23 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I think Kawhi wants to be in LA. Clippers or Lakers. He's won. He'll get paid.

I'm not sure teams should be trading valuable assets for a Kawhi rental. Is he ready to play 80% of the games as a mercenary in Toronto or Milwaukee or wherever?

I don't think that SA will trade him to LAL. He may be taking the scenic route to the Lakers like Paul George.

I think Kawhi for Fultz + Covington, etc makes sense.

It's not GM Phil Jackson it is Popovich. Fultz & Covington?  ??? ::) :P :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
You don't get Kawhi for 5 years.... you likely get him for one before he bolts for LA. I doubt SA can do much better than that.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #400 on: June 18, 2018, 10:03:07 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.

Why would Phoenix do that for a 1-year rental. It's GM suicide.

Yeah, someone tell me why any team would give up a top pick/promising young player for a guy that's headed to LA. Makes no sense to me.

Suns have been in shambles. They couldn't figure out their Morris twin situation, and they still can't find a decent PG.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #401 on: June 18, 2018, 10:06:15 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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im in shambles

man ..... ;)

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #402 on: June 18, 2018, 10:11:29 PM »

Offline byennie

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Phoenix should find a way to dangle Bender or Chriss with a bad contract, and sign LeBron to play with Kawhi =).

Well, it would be interesting... LeBron/ Kawhi/ Booker core and great medical care... heh.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #403 on: June 18, 2018, 10:17:48 PM »

Offline saltlover

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According to Lifshatz---whom you all seem to hate...Kawhi to Phoenix for Jackson & #1 Pick ?

Deal would get done this week if true.
Pop should do it.

Why would Phoenix do that for a 1-year rental. It's GM suicide.

Yeah, someone tell me why any team would give up a top pick/promising young player for a guy that's headed to LA. Makes no sense to me.

That obviously kills a Fultz/Covington package. PHX is relatively close to LA so maybe they could convince Kawhi to stay. It would allow him to be in the spotlight when he wants, but not be immersed in it. Personally, I would LOVE it if Kawhi went to PHX!

Convincing someone to stay that wants to play at home.... I don't know about that. Seems like a risky strategy.

If Ryan McDonough thinks that Ayton has a high motor, I think he's picking the big man.

If Kawhi really is a top 5 player (I concede he's def top 10 when healthy), he can basically pick which team he wants to play for. I don't think there's going to be much room for convincing.

Here’s what the play is (although I doubt it’s for the rumored package):

Trade for Kawhi now and watch the Lakers sign George and LeBron.  This means that next year they cannot possibly sign Kawhi outright, and would instead need to send back a package in a sign and trade.  Presumably they’ll have moved on from Deng this summer in order to make room for LeBron and George, meaning their package has to include a number of their current prospects.

So if the Lakers sign LeBron and PG13, they aren’t a real threat to steal Kawhi, and you can recoup some of the assets spent for him now by helping him to the Lakers next year if he really wants to go.  The Clippers could be a bigger threat, as they could sign him outright more easily, but they’d still have to do a little work, allowing you to get something to help them out as well.  And in the meantime you have a year to convince him to stay.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #404 on: June 18, 2018, 10:29:57 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250231/spurs-not-interested-in-lonzo-ball

As widely expected, and also from Woj's earlier Tweet, Spurs are NOT interested in Lonzo.

So LAL will certainly have to give up Kuzma and Ingram in a Leonard trade, and maybe even an extra asset since it's pretty well-known Leonard's ideal destination is LA and he's likely to re-sign there.

It also makes sense because after what the Spurs went through all year with the Kawhi saga and such... the last thing they want to do is create more drama and bring LaVar's big head into SA  :laugh:
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