Author Topic: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season  (Read 8551 times)

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Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2019, 09:52:33 AM »

Online jpotter33

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Kyrie didn't fail by himself.

But I'll keep saying this:


Kyrie wanted the mantle.

He wanted the spotlight.

He wanted to have a franchise to call his own.


He got all of that.

He wasted it.


He asked for the responsibility to be the leader and be the guy whose job it was to get all the younger guys -- who looked up to him -- to buy in.

He not only failed at doing that, he actually seemed to avoid that responsibility, at least by the second half of this season.



If you don't want to be blamed when team chemistry is a shambles, don't hold yourself out as the main man.

Exactly. TP.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2019, 10:00:44 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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Hayward was not featured that much. He was barely a negative in most advanced metrics too. Disappointed to read his teammates got annoyed at how quickly Brad tried to integrate him.

The best version of the team involved Hayward at close to previous form. I really don't think Stevens rushed to that point.

Just replacing Kyrie won't fix some of these issues, so I hope the returning players air the laundry privately. Then again, they had multiple team meetings and nothing changed.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2019, 10:02:21 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Hayward was not featured that much. He was barely a negative in most advanced metrics too. Disappointed to read his teammates got annoyed at how quickly Brad tried to integrate him.

The best version of the team involved Hayward at close to previous form. I really don't think Stevens rushed to that point.

Just replacing Kyrie won't fix some of these issues, so I hope the returning players air the laundry privately. Then again, they had multiple team meetings and nothing changed.
It really shows a pretty glaring lack of maturity that people got mad at Brad trying to recuperate a guy the only way he knew how, lol.
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Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2019, 10:04:04 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Look its not ideal that guys are going out late during the playoffs.

But as Celtics fans we revere Larry Bird who broke his hand in a BAR FIGHT during the playoffs. As NBA fans we love Jordan who was in casinos constantly during regular season and playoffs.

We only care when our team doesn't win, then we suddenly "discover" how these guys aren't hermetic warrior monks who only play basketball.
That's exactly what Kyrie is talking about, our young guys doesn't know what it takes to win a champ, he was proved to be right, so Brown and Rozier(and Tatum for that matter) think they are Bird or MJ?

If i'm Kyrie i will call their axx out in public too, because that's what they asked for and what they deserved

Then you have to do the same to Kyrie...who flat out quit vs the Bucks in the playoffs. He also did not even try to play defense the entire season. Kyrie had problems with just about everyone on the Celtics...justified or not.

When Kyrie does not get his way he pouts and turns on everyone...did the same thing in Cleveland during the playoffs. Refused to talk to the coaches or players. His pattern of behavior stretches far and wide.

This is flat out wrong. You could argue that he was top 5 on the team on D in that stretch early in the season where everybody sucked.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2019, 10:05:11 AM »

Offline gpap

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Hayward was not featured that much. He was barely a negative in most advanced metrics too. Disappointed to read his teammates got annoyed at how quickly Brad tried to integrate him.

The best version of the team involved Hayward at close to previous form. I really don't think Stevens rushed to that point.

Just replacing Kyrie won't fix some of these issues, so I hope the returning players air the laundry privately. Then again, they had multiple team meetings and nothing changed.
It really shows a pretty glaring lack of maturity that people got mad at Brad trying to recuperate a guy the only way he knew how, lol.

Yeah it really does! What was Brad suppose to do? Bench Hayward the entire year. Nice group of guys we have on our team ???

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2019, 10:15:12 AM »

Offline td450

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I've read most of these stories purporting to explain the team's issues, and they all leave me with the same feeling that the reporters are unwilling to do more than imply where the problems were really coming from. No specifics that we didn't see already.

I guess it's a matter of control. If a player isn't doing what the team wants, the team should be able to impose a correction onto that player. If that doesn't work, you have to know when the problem crosses a line that would cause team level deterioration. You get what you want from a player or you move the player. When you don't do that, the coach's authority is degraded.

Kyrie was the only player on the roster that Stevens had no real leverage with. Everyone else should have been manageable. The fact that Ainge didn't move anyone tells me it was his fault. Stevens reports to him, and ultimately, all of Stevens leverage with the players is derived from Ainge's power to demand performance or induce exit.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2019, 10:18:21 AM »

Offline Wretch

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Hayward was not featured that much. He was barely a negative in most advanced metrics too. Disappointed to read his teammates got annoyed at how quickly Brad tried to integrate him.

The best version of the team involved Hayward at close to previous form. I really don't think Stevens rushed to that point.

Just replacing Kyrie won't fix some of these issues, so I hope the returning players air the laundry privately. Then again, they had multiple team meetings and nothing changed.
It really shows a pretty glaring lack of maturity that people got mad at Brad trying to recuperate a guy the only way he knew how, lol.
I think it was tied more to selfishness. The 2 players I see complaining about GW are Rozier and Morris, both looking for their next contracts. Jaylen probably had a legitimate complaint to but he played awfully early and then thrived off the bench and got well deserved praise for accepting his role.

The thing that bothers me the most about teammates complaining about GH`s playing time is that if they had an injury  they'd want the chance to play their way back to full strength like GH had. Frankly good riddance to self players and fake tough guys.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2019, 10:19:36 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Irving is showing what he learned from LeBron, except he isn't that level of talent.

Talking about teammates through the media.

Turn on coach.  (Want to bet he was trying to find a way to get the coach out)

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2019, 10:19:55 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Hayward was not featured that much. He was barely a negative in most advanced metrics too. Disappointed to read his teammates got annoyed at how quickly Brad tried to integrate him.

The best version of the team involved Hayward at close to previous form. I really don't think Stevens rushed to that point.

Just replacing Kyrie won't fix some of these issues, so I hope the returning players air the laundry privately. Then again, they had multiple team meetings and nothing changed.
It really shows a pretty glaring lack of maturity that people got mad at Brad trying to recuperate a guy the only way he knew how, lol.
I think it was tied more to selfishness. The 2 players I see complaining about GW are Rozier and Morris, both looking for their next contracts. Jaylen probably had a legitimate complaint to but he played awfully early and then thrived off the bench and got well deserved praise for accepting his role.

The thing that bothers me the most about teammates complaining about GH`s playing time is that if they had an injury  they'd want the chance to play their way back to full strength like GH had. Frankly good riddance to self players and fake tough guys.
Yeah, it really smells of Rozier to me, and to a certain extent Morris. I think Morris bought in more during the playoffs though, which is commendable.

Hopefully it's all cleared up next season
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2019, 10:20:34 AM »

Offline RJ87

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Quote
On Jan. 9, the Celtics blitzed the Indiana Pacers at home, then flew out that night to Miami, arriving at the team hotel after 2 a.m. on Thursday. Boston was set to play the Miami Heat that night, but, team sources said, that didn't stop some of the young players from heading to South Beach, where the clubs stay open well past 5 a.m. It's not uncommon for NBA players to go out when they're on the road, but Irving was irked teammates decided to do it in the middle of back-to-back games.

Reporters clamored to ask Irving about it after the game, but he had disappeared. After nearly 30 minutes, he was found shooting baskets on Miami's practice court, hoping some of his teammates who had played so poorly might join him.

None of them did.

As I read this, I hope people realize that the precious young guys like Brown, Tatum and that punk Rozier aren't exactly innocent in the whole thing. Which is why it wouldn't break my heart if any of them get traded, though I think Tatum could still be something special if he got his head out of his backside.

That's what's frustrating about Tatum, because he has the talent. Comparing this to guys like Bird, Jordan, KG, and Pierce is ridiculous because those guys are some of the best to ever play the game and they've obviously put in the work to be the players that they were.

People hate Kyrie and that's fine, but one thing you can't question is his work ethic. By all accounts, he's a gym rat. So yeah, I think it bugged him that some of his teammates weren't. They got a taste of success, thought they made it and just want to enjoy the perks. I always read here and on reddit that it's on Kyrie bc he said the regular season didn't matter, but they neglect to point out that he said that once it was clear we weren't moving up in the standings. I remember after the Orlando game him saying, "we can't be comfortable being in 5th place" but it's clear some guys just were. That's why I think Marcus Smart backed his comments after the Orlando game and has since.

Kyrie's stint as a leader was a failure, and he holds the majority of the blame for that. But you can't make guys want it more. You can't make guys care more. Some guys just don't have the fire in the belly.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 10:36:22 AM by RJ87 »
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PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2019, 10:21:11 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Irving is showing what he learned from LeBron, except he isn't that level of talent.

Talking about teammates through the media.

Turn on coach.  (Want to bet he was trying to find a way to get the coach out)
I mean that might be why he soured on Boston as a place to be, he knew he didn't have the juice with Danny to get Stevens out.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2019, 10:22:04 AM »

Offline bellerephon

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I've read most of these stories purporting to explain the team's issues, and they all leave me with the same feeling that the reporters are unwilling to do more than imply where the problems were really coming from. No specifics that we didn't see already.

I guess it's a matter of control. If a player isn't doing what the team wants, the team should be able to impose a correction onto that player. If that doesn't work, you have to know when the problem crosses a line that would cause team level deterioration. You get what you want from a player or you move the player. When you don't do that, the coach's authority is degraded.

Kyrie was the only player on the roster that Stevens had no real leverage with. Everyone else should have been manageable. The fact that Ainge didn't move anyone tells me it was his fault. Stevens reports to him, and ultimately, all of Stevens leverage with the players is derived from Ainge's power to demand performance or induce exit.
It's not that easy, professional sports simply doesn't work that way. The team's reputation with players is very important. If a GM or coach tried to run a team as you suggest, they would quickly find themselves losing credibility with the players. That has real consequences for team building. Even Popovich can't simply demand that sort of compliance from players, see Kawhi Leonard.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2019, 10:38:16 AM »

Offline libermaniac

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These guys don’t need to report for work till like 4pm so being out at 2 am, in and of itself, means nothing. If they are drinking heavily, then that’s a different story. It’s kind of hard to come down from all the adrenaline flowing through their bodies at 10pm to sound asleep by midnight.

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2019, 10:40:39 AM »

Offline RJ87

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These guys don’t need to report for work till like 4pm so being out at 2 am, in and of itself, means nothing. If they are drinking heavily, then that’s a different story. It’s kind of hard to come down from all the adrenaline flowing through their bodies at 10pm to sound asleep by midnight.

I'm sure they're only having meaningful conversations in the clubs on Miami Beach until 5am.

Btw, they weren't out until 2am. That's when the team got into town and guys still went out.
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PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Jackie MacMullen Article on the Celtics Season
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2019, 10:44:49 AM »

Offline td450

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I've read most of these stories purporting to explain the team's issues, and they all leave me with the same feeling that the reporters are unwilling to do more than imply where the problems were really coming from. No specifics that we didn't see already.

I guess it's a matter of control. If a player isn't doing what the team wants, the team should be able to impose a correction onto that player. If that doesn't work, you have to know when the problem crosses a line that would cause team level deterioration. You get what you want from a player or you move the player. When you don't do that, the coach's authority is degraded.

Kyrie was the only player on the roster that Stevens had no real leverage with. Everyone else should have been manageable. The fact that Ainge didn't move anyone tells me it was his fault. Stevens reports to him, and ultimately, all of Stevens leverage with the players is derived from Ainge's power to demand performance or induce exit.
It's not that easy, professional sports simply doesn't work that way. The team's reputation with players is very important. If a GM or coach tried to run a team as you suggest, they would quickly find themselves losing credibility with the players. That has real consequences for team building. Even Popovich can't simply demand that sort of compliance from players, see Kawhi Leonard.

Please don't oversimplify what I said. Of course the players have a great deal of leverage. That is why judgement and team management matters so much. You can't act like you are a drill sergeant, but you do need to know when team cohesion becomes unstable enough to make the tough decisions you need to make. Otherwise, you have a billion dollar business held together by the whims of two or three guys who are untethered to any consequences.

Some players understand how much depends on their maturity and some of them don't. Management discretion becomes the difference between success and failure. This becomes more important in the modern NBA than ever before.

No one in the public knows what really happened in San Antonio. We don't know that Pop had a path to resolving Leonard's situation or not. We did see Leonard create a huge mess. I personally think Pop did the right thing, even knowing what we know now. Injuries affect both the player and the team, and it is necessary for both parties to cooperate. Leonard refused to do that.

Yes, sometimes immensely talented people become problems, and sometimes dealing with that takes away opportunities. Not dealing with problems takes away opportunities too. Management gets paid to decide which path is the wise one.

This wasn't some trivial level of acting out. The team as a whole was underperforming significantly. The ability to know when to correct and when to tolerate is the whole ballgame. If you believe that last year was a time to tolerate, fine. I think it reached a threshold where action was required.