Author Topic: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?  (Read 17765 times)

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Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #105 on: December 04, 2019, 12:48:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Does anyone seriously think Lakers can beat the Clippers in a 7 game series? Because I just don't see it.
Can, absolutely.  Not sure they will, but the Lakers absolutely can beat the Clippers in a series.  Davis is a big problem for the Clippers as I don't think George or Leonard can handle guarding him full time and they really don't have anyone else I would trust guarding him.  I mean the other options are Zubac, Harkless, Green, and Patterson and I wouldn't trust any of them to be able to guard Davis with any consistency.  So I see Davis as the key to that series.  If he plays up to his full potential, I think the Lakers probably win the series, if he doesn't, then the Clippers probably win.

Doesn't the same question also applies to who's guarding Paul George, let alone Kawhi?
I think James on George and a combination of Green/Bradley on Leonard isn't nearly as bad as whoever tries to guard Davis.  Obvious mismatch for Kawhi in that situation, but not nearly as bad a mismatch as the Clippers trying to guard Davis.

Wonder how a 35 year old LBJ holds up in a hard fought series having to play full effort on both ends of the floor the entire series? Does he suffer on the offensive end? 

I don't think Lakers have the horses to win the series.
But the Clippers do?  That seems like a strange take.  Let's just call Davis/James vs. George/Leonard a wash (it is fairly close either way) after that, what are you left with

LAC - Beverly, Williams, Harkless, Harrell, Shamet, Green, Zubac, Patterson, McGruder, Robinson
LAL - Green, KCP, Howard, Kuzma, McGee, Caruso, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, Rondo

Those are everyone that has played at least 200 minutes this year.  I might just favor the Lakers given their much greater high level playoff experience.

That is why I think the series comes down to Davis.
Clippers have a comical amount of good NBA players.
and the Lakers don't?
I would say clearly not to the same extent. I imagine the Clippers have a more balanced scoring distribution considering Lou or Harrell get 20 once every two or three games.
Oh no question, Williams and Harrell are excellent scorers, but it does help that George and Leonard have missed a lot of games (that goes for everyone on that team).  But that is pretty much the entirety of the Clippers scoring (those 4 guys).  Beverly has more 2 point games than games over 15 points (for example) despite playing 30 mpg.  Shamet hasn't really played with George at all.  Harkless just played 22 minutes without scoring adding to his 1 point game and 3 2 point games.  Zubac, Patterson, and Green are pretty much blah. 

Outside of Kuzma, I do think the Lakers lack explosive scoring potential, but they have a lot more guys I'd trust in a big game to play their roles and do what they are supposed to do.  I mean they have 4 champions (outside of Lebron) on the roster (Green, Rondo, McGee, Cook) plus several players with deep playoff runs (Howard, Bradley, Dudley).  Kawhi is the only champion on the Clippers, George has the next most playoff games at 76, and Williams is the only other guy above 50 playoff games. 

If the Lakers don't implode and are healthy, I'd trust their other guys more than the Clippers other guys in a playoff series.  The potential for the Lakers to implode is much greater with guys like Howard and Rondo, and the Lakers are a lot older so injuries have to be a pretty big concern.  But healthy vs. healthy I'd rather have the Lakers other guys. 
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Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #106 on: December 04, 2019, 12:50:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Does anyone seriously think Lakers can beat the Clippers in a 7 game series? Because I just don't see it.
Can, absolutely.  Not sure they will, but the Lakers absolutely can beat the Clippers in a series.  Davis is a big problem for the Clippers as I don't think George or Leonard can handle guarding him full time and they really don't have anyone else I would trust guarding him.  I mean the other options are Zubac, Harkless, Green, and Patterson and I wouldn't trust any of them to be able to guard Davis with any consistency.  So I see Davis as the key to that series.  If he plays up to his full potential, I think the Lakers probably win the series, if he doesn't, then the Clippers probably win.

Doesn't the same question also applies to who's guarding Paul George, let alone Kawhi?
I think James on George and a combination of Green/Bradley on Leonard isn't nearly as bad as whoever tries to guard Davis.  Obvious mismatch for Kawhi in that situation, but not nearly as bad a mismatch as the Clippers trying to guard Davis.

Wonder how a 35 year old LBJ holds up in a hard fought series having to play full effort on both ends of the floor the entire series? Does he suffer on the offensive end? 

I don't think Lakers have the horses to win the series.
But the Clippers do?  That seems like a strange take.  Let's just call Davis/James vs. George/Leonard a wash (it is fairly close either way) after that, what are you left with

LAC - Beverly, Williams, Harkless, Harrell, Shamet, Green, Zubac, Patterson, McGruder, Robinson
LAL - Green, KCP, Howard, Kuzma, McGee, Caruso, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, Rondo

Those are everyone that has played at least 200 minutes this year.  I might just favor the Lakers given their much greater high level playoff experience.

That is why I think the series comes down to Davis.

What's strange about it?  Clippers have more depth, IMO and won't be relying on their 35 year old alpha to bust his butt off on both ends of the floor in extended minutes.  This isn't hard to grasp.

Now, the health of both PG & Kawhi will be the biggest wild cards.  If healthy,  I think Clippers take that series and its not really a hot take either.

In the playoffs, there are no B2Bs and sometimes there are 2 days off between games in a series.  I expect the Lakers will pickup another wing at the deadline or in buyout market (e.g. Iggy).  How's Kawhi going to hold up in a hard fought series?
For an example of how he holds up see the 2018-2019 NBA playoffs.

Exactly.

I agree with Donogus on this one. I think Beverly, Williams and Harrell are all better than the third best player on the Lakers. Its also kind of a misuse of the word strange here. There is nothing strange about thinking that. I imagine most people would think the core of a team that made the playoffs last year and pushed the Warriors to 6 game is better than veteran castoffs signed for near the minimum (outside of Green). Whatever you think of those guys, the take is not "strange".

Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #107 on: December 04, 2019, 01:53:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Does anyone seriously think Lakers can beat the Clippers in a 7 game series? Because I just don't see it.
Can, absolutely.  Not sure they will, but the Lakers absolutely can beat the Clippers in a series.  Davis is a big problem for the Clippers as I don't think George or Leonard can handle guarding him full time and they really don't have anyone else I would trust guarding him.  I mean the other options are Zubac, Harkless, Green, and Patterson and I wouldn't trust any of them to be able to guard Davis with any consistency.  So I see Davis as the key to that series.  If he plays up to his full potential, I think the Lakers probably win the series, if he doesn't, then the Clippers probably win.

Doesn't the same question also applies to who's guarding Paul George, let alone Kawhi?
I think James on George and a combination of Green/Bradley on Leonard isn't nearly as bad as whoever tries to guard Davis.  Obvious mismatch for Kawhi in that situation, but not nearly as bad a mismatch as the Clippers trying to guard Davis.

Wonder how a 35 year old LBJ holds up in a hard fought series having to play full effort on both ends of the floor the entire series? Does he suffer on the offensive end? 

I don't think Lakers have the horses to win the series.
But the Clippers do?  That seems like a strange take.  Let's just call Davis/James vs. George/Leonard a wash (it is fairly close either way) after that, what are you left with

LAC - Beverly, Williams, Harkless, Harrell, Shamet, Green, Zubac, Patterson, McGruder, Robinson
LAL - Green, KCP, Howard, Kuzma, McGee, Caruso, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, Rondo

Those are everyone that has played at least 200 minutes this year.  I might just favor the Lakers given their much greater high level playoff experience.

That is why I think the series comes down to Davis.

What's strange about it?  Clippers have more depth, IMO and won't be relying on their 35 year old alpha to bust his butt off on both ends of the floor in extended minutes.  This isn't hard to grasp.

Now, the health of both PG & Kawhi will be the biggest wild cards.  If healthy,  I think Clippers take that series and its not really a hot take either.

In the playoffs, there are no B2Bs and sometimes there are 2 days off between games in a series.  I expect the Lakers will pickup another wing at the deadline or in buyout market (e.g. Iggy).  How's Kawhi going to hold up in a hard fought series?
For an example of how he holds up see the 2018-2019 NBA playoffs.

Exactly.

I agree with Donogus on this one. I think Beverly, Williams and Harrell are all better than the third best player on the Lakers. Its also kind of a misuse of the word strange here. There is nothing strange about thinking that. I imagine most people would think the core of a team that made the playoffs last year and pushed the Warriors to 6 game is better than veteran castoffs signed for near the minimum (outside of Green). Whatever you think of those guys, the take is not "strange".
KCP, Bradley, and McGee weren't signed for the minimum or all that close to it either (obviously Kuzma is still on his rookie deal). 

Beverly is a quality defender that doesn't do much else.  That is pretty much the definition of the Clippers players.  Very one sided in their roles.  Williams and Harrell score.  They have no credible rebounders from that unit.  Who is going to get the clutch rebound (outside of George or Leonard).  Who is defending the rim?  Frankly, they have some good, but no elite shooters either (again outside of George and Leonard). 

Gallinari was vitally critical to the Clippers success last year (SGA to a lesser extent).  Obviously they've replaced them with George and Leonard who are big upgrades, but without Gallinari and SGA, the Clippers are no where near a playoff team last year so I do think it is strange to hold the Clippers other guys out like it was a playoff team.

I get people can have different views but I'm taking this team

PG's - Rondo, Cook, Caruso
Wings - Green, Bradley, KCP, Dudley, Daniels
Bigs - Kuzma, Howard, McGee

Over this team

PG's - Beverly, Williams
Wings - Shamet, Harkless, McGruder, Robinson, Mann
Bigs - Harrell, Green, Zubac, Patterson

The Lakers are much more balanced and cohesive as a unit.
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Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #108 on: December 04, 2019, 03:10:55 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Does anyone seriously think Lakers can beat the Clippers in a 7 game series? Because I just don't see it.
Can, absolutely.  Not sure they will, but the Lakers absolutely can beat the Clippers in a series.  Davis is a big problem for the Clippers as I don't think George or Leonard can handle guarding him full time and they really don't have anyone else I would trust guarding him.  I mean the other options are Zubac, Harkless, Green, and Patterson and I wouldn't trust any of them to be able to guard Davis with any consistency.  So I see Davis as the key to that series.  If he plays up to his full potential, I think the Lakers probably win the series, if he doesn't, then the Clippers probably win.

Doesn't the same question also applies to who's guarding Paul George, let alone Kawhi?
I think James on George and a combination of Green/Bradley on Leonard isn't nearly as bad as whoever tries to guard Davis.  Obvious mismatch for Kawhi in that situation, but not nearly as bad a mismatch as the Clippers trying to guard Davis.

Wonder how a 35 year old LBJ holds up in a hard fought series having to play full effort on both ends of the floor the entire series? Does he suffer on the offensive end? 

I don't think Lakers have the horses to win the series.
But the Clippers do?  That seems like a strange take.  Let's just call Davis/James vs. George/Leonard a wash (it is fairly close either way) after that, what are you left with

LAC - Beverly, Williams, Harkless, Harrell, Shamet, Green, Zubac, Patterson, McGruder, Robinson
LAL - Green, KCP, Howard, Kuzma, McGee, Caruso, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, Rondo

Those are everyone that has played at least 200 minutes this year.  I might just favor the Lakers given their much greater high level playoff experience.

That is why I think the series comes down to Davis.

What's strange about it?  Clippers have more depth, IMO and won't be relying on their 35 year old alpha to bust his butt off on both ends of the floor in extended minutes.  This isn't hard to grasp.

Now, the health of both PG & Kawhi will be the biggest wild cards.  If healthy,  I think Clippers take that series and its not really a hot take either.

In the playoffs, there are no B2Bs and sometimes there are 2 days off between games in a series.  I expect the Lakers will pickup another wing at the deadline or in buyout market (e.g. Iggy).  How's Kawhi going to hold up in a hard fought series?
For an example of how he holds up see the 2018-2019 NBA playoffs.

Exactly.

I agree with Donogus on this one. I think Beverly, Williams and Harrell are all better than the third best player on the Lakers. Its also kind of a misuse of the word strange here. There is nothing strange about thinking that. I imagine most people would think the core of a team that made the playoffs last year and pushed the Warriors to 6 game is better than veteran castoffs signed for near the minimum (outside of Green). Whatever you think of those guys, the take is not "strange".
KCP, Bradley, and McGee weren't signed for the minimum or all that close to it either (obviously Kuzma is still on his rookie deal). 

Beverly is a quality defender that doesn't do much else.  That is pretty much the definition of the Clippers players.  Very one sided in their roles.  Williams and Harrell score.  They have no credible rebounders from that unit.  Who is going to get the clutch rebound (outside of George or Leonard).  Who is defending the rim?  Frankly, they have some good, but no elite shooters either (again outside of George and Leonard). 

Gallinari was vitally critical to the Clippers success last year (SGA to a lesser extent).  Obviously they've replaced them with George and Leonard who are big upgrades, but without Gallinari and SGA, the Clippers are no where near a playoff team last year so I do think it is strange to hold the Clippers other guys out like it was a playoff team.

I get people can have different views but I'm taking this team

PG's - Rondo, Cook, Caruso
Wings - Green, Bradley, KCP, Dudley, Daniels
Bigs - Kuzma, Howard, McGee

Over this team

PG's - Beverly, Williams
Wings - Shamet, Harkless, McGruder, Robinson, Mann
Bigs - Harrell, Green, Zubac, Patterson

The Lakers are much more balanced and cohesive as a unit.

I mean, Harrell is averaging 19/8/2 in under 30 mpg. If that's not rebounding, I don't know what is. Kawhi is also averaging 7.9 boards per game in 31.2 minutes, and PG13 is averaging 6.1 in 29.5. Zubac is also averaging 6.4 rebounds in 16.0 mpg.

Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2019, 03:50:49 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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What the Lakers have done amounts to acquiring Anthony Davis for a boatload of young talent and picks that they have been stockpiling.  The problem is that A Davis made it known that if he is not going to LA he is not going to sign an extension.  So it's a [dang] hard ask for DA to match the Lakers package when AD says he's just gonna hit free agency at the end of the year.  Looking back do you give up Tatum + Brown + picks to get Davis?  I say no, you don't.  Especially seeing what key roles they are playing in this year's team.  Not for a 1 year rental.

Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #110 on: December 05, 2019, 08:39:08 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Does anyone seriously think Lakers can beat the Clippers in a 7 game series? Because I just don't see it.
Can, absolutely.  Not sure they will, but the Lakers absolutely can beat the Clippers in a series.  Davis is a big problem for the Clippers as I don't think George or Leonard can handle guarding him full time and they really don't have anyone else I would trust guarding him.  I mean the other options are Zubac, Harkless, Green, and Patterson and I wouldn't trust any of them to be able to guard Davis with any consistency.  So I see Davis as the key to that series.  If he plays up to his full potential, I think the Lakers probably win the series, if he doesn't, then the Clippers probably win.

Doesn't the same question also applies to who's guarding Paul George, let alone Kawhi?
I think James on George and a combination of Green/Bradley on Leonard isn't nearly as bad as whoever tries to guard Davis.  Obvious mismatch for Kawhi in that situation, but not nearly as bad a mismatch as the Clippers trying to guard Davis.

Wonder how a 35 year old LBJ holds up in a hard fought series having to play full effort on both ends of the floor the entire series? Does he suffer on the offensive end? 

I don't think Lakers have the horses to win the series.
But the Clippers do?  That seems like a strange take.  Let's just call Davis/James vs. George/Leonard a wash (it is fairly close either way) after that, what are you left with

LAC - Beverly, Williams, Harkless, Harrell, Shamet, Green, Zubac, Patterson, McGruder, Robinson
LAL - Green, KCP, Howard, Kuzma, McGee, Caruso, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, Rondo

Those are everyone that has played at least 200 minutes this year.  I might just favor the Lakers given their much greater high level playoff experience.

That is why I think the series comes down to Davis.

What's strange about it?  Clippers have more depth, IMO and won't be relying on their 35 year old alpha to bust his butt off on both ends of the floor in extended minutes.  This isn't hard to grasp.

Now, the health of both PG & Kawhi will be the biggest wild cards.  If healthy,  I think Clippers take that series and its not really a hot take either.

In the playoffs, there are no B2Bs and sometimes there are 2 days off between games in a series.  I expect the Lakers will pickup another wing at the deadline or in buyout market (e.g. Iggy).  How's Kawhi going to hold up in a hard fought series?
For an example of how he holds up see the 2018-2019 NBA playoffs.

Exactly.

I agree with Donogus on this one. I think Beverly, Williams and Harrell are all better than the third best player on the Lakers. Its also kind of a misuse of the word strange here. There is nothing strange about thinking that. I imagine most people would think the core of a team that made the playoffs last year and pushed the Warriors to 6 game is better than veteran castoffs signed for near the minimum (outside of Green). Whatever you think of those guys, the take is not "strange".
KCP, Bradley, and McGee weren't signed for the minimum or all that close to it either (obviously Kuzma is still on his rookie deal). 

Beverly is a quality defender that doesn't do much else.  That is pretty much the definition of the Clippers players.  Very one sided in their roles.  Williams and Harrell score.  They have no credible rebounders from that unit.  Who is going to get the clutch rebound (outside of George or Leonard).  Who is defending the rim?  Frankly, they have some good, but no elite shooters either (again outside of George and Leonard). 

Gallinari was vitally critical to the Clippers success last year (SGA to a lesser extent).  Obviously they've replaced them with George and Leonard who are big upgrades, but without Gallinari and SGA, the Clippers are no where near a playoff team last year so I do think it is strange to hold the Clippers other guys out like it was a playoff team.

I get people can have different views but I'm taking this team

PG's - Rondo, Cook, Caruso
Wings - Green, Bradley, KCP, Dudley, Daniels
Bigs - Kuzma, Howard, McGee

Over this team

PG's - Beverly, Williams
Wings - Shamet, Harkless, McGruder, Robinson, Mann
Bigs - Harrell, Green, Zubac, Patterson

The Lakers are much more balanced and cohesive as a unit.

I mean, Harrell is averaging 19/8/2 in under 30 mpg. If that's not rebounding, I don't know what is. Kawhi is also averaging 7.9 boards per game in 31.2 minutes, and PG13 is averaging 6.1 in 29.5. Zubac is also averaging 6.4 rebounds in 16.0 mpg.
I clearly said outside of George and Leonard. 

Zubac is a pretty solid 20.4 TRB%, Harrell is just 13.8 though, which is ok but not great.  Zubac though barely plays and isn't in their clutch or crunch time lineups.  Hence, the "who is going to get the clutch rebound (outside of George or Leonard)" statement I made. 
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Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #111 on: December 05, 2019, 08:50:24 AM »

Offline Androslav

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To answer the original question, the Lakers sucked for 8 years, no they didn't outmaneuver the Celtics.
They were really, really bad for a long, long time. That is drowning in their own tears, not maneuvering.
They sold their past (Ingram, Ball, Hart) and mortgaged future (picks galore) for going all in this season (currently 1/4th of the regular season).

AD and LBJ might break the next game and they would be bad for at least the next 5 years.
Since Jeannie is the boss there, everything Lakers do is shortsighted and their moves have no logical process that leads to logical results.

It is easy to be good 1 quarter of a year after being bad for almost a decade and while you are simultaneously selling your lightly protected picks.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2019, 05:14:44 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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If climate change and/or the Big One result in Hollywood and warm weather moving to Boston, then see what happens. The Lakers FO really did nothing. LeBron decided he wanted to establish roots in Hollywood for his post-NBA career. AD decided he wants to be LeBron’s sidekick and heir apparent in LA. Some free agents took discounts to form a merry band of mercenaries. It’s a joke.

Re: Lakers are 17-2, did their front office outmanuever the Celtics?
« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2019, 05:47:34 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Firstly, I haven't read the whole thread. I think LeBron and the weather probably did most of the heavy lifting on Davis. Sometimes, you can only do what is humanly possible. You can't change that the chance to play with LeBron is calling or LA doesn't need snow ploughs.